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XX7509
March 21st, 2005, 03:02 PM
I have previous programming expierence, and I've resonably well in the codebehind, or making windows-based applications but now I am starting my first web application. The programming is not going to be a problem, but I have no idea how to start designing my pages. I've been told not to use the gridlayout and to use flowlayout instead. I am completely lost on where to start, or what I need to do. I can drop all the controls on the page, and program them with no problem, but I can't make the actual pages. It seems that visual studio .net isn't designed that well for creating an entire website, or program.. but maybe that's just because I don't know *** I'm doing. :ehh:

I don't have a clue what I should be doing, should I be using tables, or DIV, and if so how do I get started on that..

TIA
hspc
March 22nd, 2005, 02:50 AM
Hi
that's how I think about it :
Use grid layout for data entry forms, reports etc. (an application that needs to semulate desktop applicaitons)
this is useful for business applications that are made using web technologies (online reservation systems)
Use flow layout When you make a website that needs some art.
web designers make the HTML,CSS,and images for you,and you write code for it.
web designers useually use flow layout..
mcmcom
March 22nd, 2005, 07:29 AM
Hello,

First off let me say i totally understand your frustrations! If you're not well
versed in HTML and web site creation the .NET editor is not what you want to start off learning on. But look at it this way, if you master this one, you'll have no problem with any other editor! ;)

First thing to remember is that even though the UI for creating web pages (.aspx, .html, etc.) in .NET is scary, it's really quite forgiving. You can get away with some pretty glaring xHTML omissions and still have the site run properly (at least on IE Browsers). its really quite funny.

Heres some tips i have :
. always use flow layout. If this thing is going on the web, write the page that way, images or not. Its better practice because your writing true <html> with no absolute positions, blah, blah, etc. You can still drag and drop and move controls all over it with your mouse. cut and paste objects, all that. it just doesn't give you a true WYSIWYG interface spacing will be off, but all that can be fixed with some html basics!

. Keep the .net codebehind attributes intact, if possible.
- if this app is going to run on an IIS Server that allows compiled applications to be run (ie: your allowed to use your binary files) then keep the codebehind attributes that .net automatically creates at the top of every .aspx page intact.
This facilitates controls that you add to the form to get added to the codebehind and then you can just double click on them in the designer to access code for them. Just like a windows based application in .net.

. Use the property pages where available - name all your controls through here to make sure the HTML that makes up the page is getting marked up properly. Although property pages suck for setting sizes and colours, they will assure that your html is being written properly.

. Learn some basic html. It will help so much at creating .aspx pages. You'll learn how to properly format your document in html. Making it more appealing to all users. I use Style sheets in .net to format most of my aspx pages. It works the exact same as html. and a good thing about using a .css file in .NET is that .NET provides AUTOCOMPLETION for css files. Making it easy to learn css as you write it!

Hopefully this helps you get to a start at making web apps.
Good Luck :D
XX7509
March 22nd, 2005, 09:39 AM
Thanks for the replies.

The only web pages I've ever done before were in FrontPage many years ago so, beyond basic HTML I don't have a clue what to do.

I just ordered a very cool CSS book, which teaches me how to use complete CSS to do everything and as long as VS .Net supports it I should be able to learn from that.

I'm working on making my own forum, like vBulletin. Given it may not ever be as advanced, but I want to make one because I think it would be a good expierence. A forum would basically cover every single area you could ever encounter in a normal application, from sending email, to working with databases and user/session management. When you think about it a forum pretty much does everything but in a pretty simple way. I've been told by a lot of people that a forum is a waste of time, but I think its an excellent way to learn the basics. After I create even a basic forum I'll know how to make other web apps like, content management systems, blog software, and support ticket software. Also creating simple web page forms for getting custom input will be a simple task, then I'll know something about designing web pages and layout as well. :)

Thanks for all the info. I haven't gotten that book yet, but I'm going to try some of your suggestions first, just play around and see what I can come up with in the mean time. :cool:
mcmcom
March 22nd, 2005, 02:13 PM
thats it!
just play with it! ;)

Create .aspx pages from the wizard and just read the HTML markup. The way i learned HTML was from a website called HTMLGoodies. Its been around a long time and is seriouslly the best instructional site i've ever seen.

Thats worth looking at if you want to brush up on the old HTML skills.

As for the aspx side of things. really pull apart vBulletin and see how it works. There are many great open source projects around (as i am sure you know) that are commented really well, even in the .aspx files.

And post specific questions here and we'll all try to help ;)

good luck!

mcm
hspc
March 22nd, 2005, 02:46 PM
HTML,CSS,etc :
http://www.w3schools.com/
ASP,ASPX:
http://www.aspmessageboard.com/,http://www.asp.net/