Printable View
Hi,
Is there something like a unique machine ID that I can retrieve so I can save a file and when opened, know if it was saved on the same machine?
I don't want people using my saved files on any other machine apart from the one it was saved on originally.
What is the best thing to grab which is unique to each machine?
Thanks in advance
Jim
Nothing is guarateed to be unique, but you can use several thing:
- The serial number of the primary harddisk
- The MAC address of the network card
- Perhaps serial numberof CPU (if you can retrieve that)
- Combinations
But, keep in mind that this IS going to annoy your customers! Because suppose you use the harddisk serial number and the harddisk of your customer crashes and he/she installs a new HD, then he/she won't be able to open there saved files anymore.
So I suggest, you give it a second thought and think about it if it's really required to prevent this.
Your question leads to copy protection.
Many companies have failed in making their program unmovable.
A hint additional to the already given ones:
Write to the registry!
If you write one of the unique values to the registry and afterwards compare them, it would even not be good enough to copy the registry key to the next pc.
Other options are hardware dongels on parallel or USB port.
But they are certainly not for free....
Marc
Whatever you do, you have to think about it if it's worth your time and effort, because do not forget that EVERY copy protection system can be hacked (no matter how complicated it is, no matter if it's in hardware or software, etc...)
Unfortunately this is the only one good solution.Quote:
Other options are hardware dongels on parallel or USB port.
But they are certainly not for free....
However, if somebody wants to prevent unauthorized copies of his software
(i.e. wants to avoid losing more money), ... must pay something for this... :)
Well, just try hacking the dongle protection, "if it's worth your time and effort" ;)Quote:
Whatever you do, you have to think about it if it's worth your time and effort, because do not forget that EVERY copy protection system can be hacked (no matter how complicated it is, no matter if it's in hardware or software, etc...)
I'm not in the 'hacking bussiness', so I have no idea how I should hack a dongle, but the fact is there are people out there who do nothing else but cracking protected software, just for the kick of it and - most importantly - to be the first that has cracked a specific piece of software. So, everything can and will be cracked. For example (among lots of other examples), 3D Studio Max had dongle protection and every single released version of 3D studio has been cracked. If i'm not mistaken, the latest 3D max release didn't even had dongle protection.Quote:
Well, just try hacking the dongle protection, "if it's worth your time and effort" ;)
Anything can be cracked, it's that simple.
We used to use dongles where I work, but dropped them in favour of a package that uses serial numbers it loads from the computer from various pieces of hardware. It makes it unmoveable from computer to computer, even renders the software unuseable if they change a hard drive, but it's just a reality they have to live with.
It's justified though, they pay $10K for the software, they have to expect we want to protect it as much as we can.
In practice, we rarely run into complaints with this method of protection, most people never have a problem with it. Even if they do, one phone call will get them a new unlock code so it's easy to work around.
If you are writing software that you plan on selling, I would strongly advise against copy-protecting the data. Tagging the files will make it impossible to share the data between a team of people. Plus, companies buy new hardware/move software around all the time; expecting that one particular machine to be around forever is not realistic. If that machine dies, then what do I do? How do I get my data back?Quote:
Is there something like a unique machine ID that I can retrieve so I can save a file and when opened, know if it was saved on the same machine?
I don't want people using my saved files on any other machine apart from the one it was saved on originally.
What is the best thing to grab which is unique to each machine?
As far as unique ids:
MAC address is good, although a NIC can be moved if it is not onboard, and virtually all network cards these days can have their MAC address set programatically, so you have to make sure you are getting the address from the EEPROM
disk serial number is poor, it is very easily changeable
video card/audio card is fair, these don't change much (especially in corporate environments, although companies tend to buy lots of identical machines)
windows directory creation date is good for consumer-level software, only fair for companies (which often install machines by ghosting a saved drive image, which gives every machine the same creation date)
registry key is good if you use a hidden registry key, although this only works on NT and later
hardware dongles are good but are very expensive, and companies *hate* them (I've dealt with numerous companies who *will not* by software proetected with a dongle, as a matter of policy)
You get your data back by calling the company and getting the software unlocked on a new machine. We do that all the time. It isn't as big a deal as you think actually. It rarely causes any problems at all.
As for people swapping hardware, that happens once every year-and-a-half or two, most people don't make a rule of swapping hard drives out or any other hardware for that matter. There's no real point unless you need it. We only get a few calls a year from people who have had to do that. In fact, I can count the number of people who call about that on two hands only, some years it's even less than that.
I agree that getting a customer a new unlock code for their software if they get a new machine is not a problem.Quote:
Originally posted by Radius
You get your data back by calling the company and getting the software unlocked on a new machine. We do that all the time. It isn't as big a deal as you think actually. It rarely causes any problems at all.
He's talking about protecting the user's data files, though, not the software. He'd have to have some way of updating the ID inside of each of the data files if they were moved to a new machine or if the machine changed.
Plus, if you are dealing directly with some sort of system ID, there might not be any unlock codes that are provided from the vendor. It didn't sound like he was implementing an "unlock key" type of system, but rather wanted to directly protect/encrypt/whatever the data file using a system-derived ID. I don't think this is a good way to go.
My sitituation is similar to Radius' old situation, I work for a company that sells an expensive software package, we don't sell to 1000's , not even hudreds of companies. I'm trying to do what Radius used to do. Everyone's talking about serial numbers, but until now, no one has mentioned how to get the serial numbers.
1- How do you get the serial numbers for the various parts?
2- Would using MD5 algorithm be helpful here?
thank you
awni
Why reinvent the wheel?
Use a third-party product such as eLicense or CrypKey or flexLM or whatever.
I can introduce you a software protection product, ElecKey of Sciensoft. :)
If you're not worried about having to support the user moving machines...you could always use CryptoAPI (it's available on all current windows platforms, it's from MS and it's free) to generate a persisted private session key and use it to encrypt/decrypt the data file.Quote:
I don't want people using my saved files on any other machine apart from the one it was saved on originally.
Be sure to give the user (or yourself) a way to export this data in some transportable format.
The keys are unique to the user (and I think to the machine as well if you use CRYPT_MACHINE_KEYSTORE) and you can set it up so it's not exportable (i.e. the key can't be moved from the machine). Furthermore, the key can be randomly generated (even YOU won't know it) or derived from a password or data you provide. For digital signatatures, we ask the user to move the mouse around a bit and we capture some mouse positions to use as a seed to a random number generate (BBS) that a key is then derived from. How's that for unique? :D
This would guarantee that the files could only be manipulated on one machine. If you want to allow the user to move machines, you could always impliment something similar to the MS activation scheme if you know you user will be connected to the internet or you could encrypt the exported data with a digital signature in a certificate you provide the user.
I agree that copy protection doesn't work, but short of GPL the next best thing is to make it expensive for users to make copies.
Hackers will always break protection schemes...better to send the money/effort on product improvement and providing support.
Not having to worry about copy protection changes the distribution model for software and can be more profitable than the alternatives. I think locking down the data (depending on the app) isn't too bad a way to go.
Did you ever get an answer you can use for obtaining PC or Machine ID?
Sounds a bit like Windows XP product activation - which reminded me. Just out of interest, does anyone know if the Windows XP product activation stuff been cracked yet?Quote:
Originally posted by Radius
Anything can be cracked, it's that simple.
We used to use dongles where I work, but dropped them in favour of a package that uses serial numbers it loads from the computer from various pieces of hardware.
Personally, I haven't heard anything but I guess it must have been by now.
Yes it has been cracked, just months after the release of XP.
So everything can and will get cracked. :(
Hello Jim , I'm still looking for an answer.
I don't believe that you can protect software forever, the
only thing you can hope for is to make it harder to crack. This
will only buy you time. So if it takes 1 year to carck your software, the cracked version will be old and people will want the new one(assuming you have a new one after a year).
awni
I think most protection schemes are cracked much much faster than in 1 year :(
Just put you best lawyer on them.
Copy protection also depends on who is goin to use them.
I personally think that we can always employ a system which will protect X percent of probability of cracking , so guys please dont discourage anybody who is in this bussiness , this is only remaining hope we can have , if everybody starts believing that "no protection works" then it will a kind of dissaster for future. :) isnt it.
PLease lets help build a protected world. :)
Professionally we use Ionworx solutions is stable and reliable you can choose which component you wish use (BIOS, CPU, HDD)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bassett
MachineID SDK info link : http://www.ionworx.com/machineid.html
Bye!
The only way to ensure a 100% fool-proof way to stop software theft is to NEVER release it to the public...because as we make bigger and better rat traps to protect software...they make bigger and better rats !!!
Of course no protection can provide 100% security, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanaj
When you quit (or left) your house (with no body inside), maybe you set on alarm and lock up the door to avoid any thief can enter, it's same for software.
When you set security, you increase skills level to break your protection...
It's always better than nothing.
Regards,
Bull Co.
With some of the black hat tools out there today this can/will/has been done without much effort...Quote:
Originally Posted by BullCo
I haven't seen anything from IonWorx cracked before. As well as I haven't seen Themida/WinLicense cracked since 1.4.3.0. Thats saying something.
Well then I guess I'll have to take a gander at these products you seem to like so much...thanks for the info. Do you know if these are for both .NET and EXE ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehorav
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanaj
Even that's not enough, there have been lots of things that got out before they were released. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanaj
For IonWorx products, there are different things. www.ionworx.com Take a look at some of their products. Most of them are for Delphi/Borland languages.
With WinLicense and Themida (and everything else Oreans sells) has two different versions. The Win32 and the Win32/.NET. These aren't cheap, but I actually work with someone who uses WinLicense and we've seen people try to crack it for days/weeks. And they've NEVER cracked it. (Then again they probably were not the best of crackers). But IonWorx and Oreans are the only two companies I trust for software protection.
By the way, if you wished to buy the Serial Shield SDK from IonWorx, I would suggest also using Themida from Oreans. Themida has everything WinLicense does, except WinLicense has actual licensing options.
Oreans also has like, at least an update per week. So you don't have to worry about your product gettin cracked, and you having to wait for a year for a new version of the software protection to be released with more options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanaj
Well with Ionworx SerialShield you can protect win32 and .NET project, don't need to buy 2 solutions, very affordable when you compare to other .NET copy protection.
I should you to try to get your own idea, here : http://www.ionworx.com/serialshield.html
Thanks for the info BullCo and Rehorav, I'll look into these...I have tried some of the others but not long enough to see if they meet my needs.
You can use Machine ID dll for dot net , its very good API .also it retrieve activation
for machine ID, it works with x68,x64.
It has a good feature let you have a different activation code for the same machine ID
Imports Machine
Imports Machine.MachineInfo
Public Class DisplayMachineId
Private Sub DisplayMachineId_Load(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles MyBase.Load
'Creating machine object
Dim MyMachine As MachineInfo = New MachineInfo
'***************************HardDisk****************************
' Dimension array of all HardDisks Information in the computer.
Dim MyHardDisks() As HardDiskIfo
'Fill HardDisk Information object
MyHardDisks = MyMachine.HardDisks
'Assigning the first Hard Disk Model to its TextBox
TxtHardDiskModel.Text = MyHardDisks(0).model
'***************************MachineID****************************
'Dimension Components information for Computer ID contains eight components.
Dim MyId As MachineidComponentsInfo
'Fill MachineID component information object.
MyId = MyMachine.MachineIdComponents
'Assigning the eight Machine ID component to its corresponding TextBox
TxtMIComponent1.Text = MyId.Component1
TxtMIComponent2.Text = MyId.Component2
TxtMIComponent3.Text = MyId.Component3
TxtMIComponent4.Text = MyId.Component4
TxtMIComponent5.Text = MyId.Component5
TxtMIComponent6.Text = MyId.Component6
TxtMIComponent7.Text = MyId.Component7
TxtMIComponent8.Text = MyId.Component8
'**************************Machine Activation Code***********************
' Dimension component information for Activation Code contains eight components.
Dim MyActivation As MachineActivationComponentsInfo
'Fill Activation code component information object.It takes four strings parameters to have variety for Activation Code for different versions.
MyActivation = MyMachine.MachineActivationComponents("TypeAnyText", "TypeAnyText", "TypeAnyText", "TypeAnyText")
'Assigning the eight Activation Code components to their corresponding TextBox.
TxtMAComponent1.Text = MyActivation.Component1
TxtMAComponent2.Text = MyActivation.Component2
TxtMAComponent3.Text = MyActivation.Component3
TxtMAComponent4.Text = MyActivation.Component4
TxtMAComponent5.Text = MyActivation.Component5
TxtMAComponent6.Text = MyActivation.Component6
TxtMAComponent7.Text = MyActivation.Component7
TxtMAComponent8.Text = MyActivation.Component8
End Sub
End Class
This is link for dll
http://dllstore.net/.../MachineId.aspx
Please use your brain before posting. This thread is 5 years old and this is a C++ forum, so your post is useless.
Have a heart Skizmo, it's the guy's first post!
It is not a reason for spamming or trolling here.Quote:
Originally Posted by John E
He had to read first Announcement: Before you post.... section. :cool:
You're right! Off with his head !! :D :D