I Don't Have A Clue

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October 13th, 2013, 01:12 PM
Honduras2811

I Don't Have A Clue

I'm not even sure this can be done.

I had to reinstall the OS 4 times on one of my computers last night while trying to figure out a networking problem. Reconfiguring the network connection was a real pain because Windoze doesn't have any decent tools to help.
Some LAN cards have really nice install apps. They give you a lot more options, and let you know what is going on.

I would like to build something like that for Windoze boxes. For instance, it would be really nice if I had a way to directly edit the DHCP and DNS settings in Windoze. There may be versions of Windoze that have that capability, but I haven't seen it for a while.

I'm running two XP Pro boxes, one Win 7 Pro 32 bit, and a W2K Pro system. I would like to produce something that would help me with all of them.

Does anyone know if that is even possible? (I know. Not all Win 7 boxes use the same LAN cards.)

Any idea where I could even get started on this?. I've been programming with VB for about 10 years, but not this kind of programming.
October 13th, 2013, 08:45 PM
DataMiser

Re: I Don't Have A Clue

Normally I use my router as the DHCP server and setting up network under Windows XP Pro and 2k is extremely simple, so much so that you really do not need to do anything beyond installing the correct driver for your card and set a workgroup or domain name. The default settings are fine and I can not think of any reason you would use a DHCP server on a workstation. I know I have never needed to touch DHCP or DNS on any workstation and I have configured a boat load of them.

Even with a router the default DHCP is usually ok so long as you don't mind the basic 192.168.x.x address range, of course if you have more than one router you may need to disable DHCP on one of them.

So what is it you are trying to do? What problem were you having?

btw You should refrain from referring to Windows as Windoze, kinda makes me doubt that you have really been using VB in any real way for 10 years.
October 14th, 2013, 11:19 AM
Honduras2811

Re: I Don't Have A Clue

Quote:

Originally Posted by DataMiser

Normally I use my router as the DHCP server and setting up network under Windows XP Pro and 2k is extremely simple, so much so that you really do not need to do anything beyond installing the correct driver for your card and set a workgroup or domain name. The default settings are fine and I can not think of any reason you would use a DHCP server on a workstation. I know I have never needed to touch DHCP or DNS on any workstation and I have configured a boat load of them.

Even with a router the default DHCP is usually ok so long as you don't mind the basic 192.168.x.x address range, of course if you have more than one router you may need to disable DHCP on one of them.

So what is it you are trying to do? What problem were you having?

btw You should refrain from referring to Windows as Windoze, kinda makes me doubt that you have really been using VB in any real way for 10 years.

I'm using pretty much the same setup you are. My (external) router takes care of DHCP and DNS. The LAN cards that are built into the two computers I'm using are not Plug And Play with the OSes that I am using, though, so I have to go through a lot of stuff even before I start configuring them for my LAN. It would take a few minutes if I could get into Windows and manually set addresses for DHCP, DNS and the subnet mask, though.

On the subject of Windoze, I built my first computer in 1987. I managed to avoid using Windoze or any other Microsoft product until I got a job in 1993 where all the computers were Windoze 3.1. I've been trying to make the move to Linux for a long time. I don't like anything about Windoze.

BTW, the first program I bought after I got my first computer running was Borland Turbo C 1.0, so I've been programming for quite a while, and I still think less of Microsoft every day.
October 15th, 2013, 04:48 PM
DataMiser

Re: I Don't Have A Clue

Honestly my respect for MS has dropped a lot in recent years. I did not become a windows fan until Windows 2000 and then XP, both of which were pretty solid. Hated 95 - ME and only switched over due to the fact that VB5 would not run under OS2 which is what I had been using with VB3 and VB Dos as well as Borland Turbo C++ and Turbo Pascal.

I still do not understand your issue though. When I setup my new computers here, I run the Windows install. Once that completes I install the drivers for the card and there is very little I need to do after that. The default settings are to obtain an IP address automatically which means the card looks to my DCHP server [router] and gets all the required info. All I have to do on the PC other than install drivers is give the PC a name and assign a workgroup or domain name and of course any user accounts I may need to setup.

The only issue I have had is an issue connecting from a Windows 7 box to a shared drive on an XP box. I still am not sure what that issue is as it only happens on some computers and they all have the same card and configuration.

At any rate you should not need to manually set any DHCP, DNS, subnet nor gateway. That should all happen automatically and has worked on every PC I have configured in the last 12 years or so.
The only times I have ever needed to do anything like that manually is where I did not have a DHCP server or wanted to use a static IP address.

Linux is interesting and I have dabbled with it but it does not support most of the software I want to run so it is a non starter from me.
October 15th, 2013, 06:56 PM
Honduras2811

Re: I Don't Have A Clue

Quote:

Originally Posted by DataMiser

Honestly my respect for MS has dropped a lot in recent years. I did not become a windows fan until Windows 2000 and then XP, both of which were pretty solid. Hated 95 - ME and only switched over due to the fact that VB5 would not run under OS2 which is what I had been using with VB3 and VB Dos as well as Borland Turbo C++ and Turbo Pascal.

I still do not understand your issue though. When I setup my new computers here, I run the Windows install. Once that completes I install the drivers for the card and there is very little I need to do after that. The default settings are to obtain an IP address automatically which means the card looks to my DCHP server [router] and gets all the required info. All I have to do on the PC other than install drivers is give the PC a name and assign a workgroup or domain name and of course any user accounts I may need to setup.

The only issue I have had is an issue connecting from a Windows 7 box to a shared drive on an XP box. I still am not sure what that issue is as it only happens on some computers and they all have the same card and configuration.

At any rate you should not need to manually set any DHCP, DNS, subnet nor gateway. That should all happen automatically and has worked on every PC I have configured in the last 12 years or so.
The only times I have ever needed to do anything like that manually is where I did not have a DHCP server or wanted to use a static IP address.

Linux is interesting and I have dabbled with it but it does not support most of the software I want to run so it is a non starter from me.

I guess I'm not doing well at explaining what is going wrong. For the three computers in question, the LAN card is built in, and, even though they are name brand and new, Mickeysoft can't identify them or set them up with usable drivers. So I find the driver, and you know how much of a hassle that is today, install it, ping around a little to make sure it is working, and then try to get it set up with Mickeysoft. It doesn't give me an option to set it up. It just asks what number I need to dial. The wizard doesn't give me any options I can see at all.

I have to say I've been lucky. I've been using a Dell for the last 7 years and it came with the OS installed. I had a few hardware issues, but no software stuff that took more than a minute to fix. I've forgotten what it was like in the bad old days.

This all really irritates me because I've spent 4 months and thousands of dollars trying to get even one of these up to the standards I was used to. Now, every time I run into something that slows me down, and that is just stupid, I get angry.

One of my favorites is that I was trying to install a CD burner with no luck because one of my driver files was out of date. So I got a new driver file, but it wouldn't install because one of my other driver files was out of date. It ended up taking me about 4 hours to get the CD burner installed.

One of the big problems is that my computers can't share files yet and the only one I have that can write to floppies is in a different part of the house. I'm nearly back in shape because of all the sneaker netting I have been doing. The problems with connecting the computers are on my end. I'm not sure whether to set up a Domain or stick with a Workgroup. I have two legal Server packages, but the one I would like to use, Windows 2000 Server, doesn't seem to be any better than any other Microsoft product. After all their bragging I did the install and no LAN connection. It also appears that my current setup with a router acting as DHCP server and DNS gateway, is going to cause problems if I put a real server into the network. It wants me to use a static IP. I can, but why?

Fortunately another computer dropped out of the game today. I started with 5 computers and dropped a Dell about a month ago because it was just too unpredictable. Today I dropped the Toshiba because it won't power up any more. I'm down to three until I get a few care packages from Newegg. ;(
October 16th, 2013, 11:47 AM
dglienna

Re: I Don't Have A Clue

Windows 7 tried to have GENERIC drivers for all devices. It almost worked... Now that Windows 8 came out, the only cards that it DOESN'T support out of the box are the newer 1G cards. You can use POWERSHELL commands to install and configure the device(s) and address info.

Also, there is a Windows Installation Kit which lets you hard-code all settings. (Used for Network setup of many devices at once0
October 16th, 2013, 06:45 PM
DataMiser

Re: I Don't Have A Clue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honduras2811

I guess I'm not doing well at explaining what is going wrong. For the three computers in question, the LAN card is built in, and, even though they are name brand and new, Mickeysoft can't identify them or set them up with usable drivers.

That is to be expected seeing that XP was probably released 10 years before your network card was made. Don't blame MS for that, blame either the Card maker, your vendor or yourself.

Quote:

So I find the driver, and you know how much of a hassle that is today

Actually it should not be any problem at all. The mother board should include the correct drivers on the CD that came with it if it is an onboard card. If it is an external card then it should have came with drivers, again if your card or MB did not include drivers that is on them not MS.

Quote:

install it, ping around a little to make sure it is working, and then try to get it set up with Mickeysoft. It doesn't give me an option to set it up. It just asks what number I need to dial. The wizard doesn't give me any options I can see at all.

Why would you even be in a Wizard that asks you for a number? That is for dial up internet access not for setting up your network.
All you need to set is the Computer Name and the Workgroup/Domain name and you're done.

Quote:

I have to say I've been lucky. I've been using a Dell for the last 7 years and it came with the OS installed. I had a few hardware issues, but no software stuff that took more than a minute to fix. I've forgotten what it was like in the bad old days.

And that explains a lot, Yes if you buy an off the shelf PC and then try to install an OS from strach then you are likely to run into lots of issues as almost none of them include the drivers. Again this is not the fault of MS but the company that build the PC.

Personally I build my own and I never have any problems like you describe. I install the OS and then pop in the CD that came with the motherboard which updates all the inf files for the new hardware, network drivers, audio drivers, CPU, USB and so on, I then set the workgroup name and reboot and everything works like it is supposed to. I then configure the OS the way I want it, add a few pieces of software and make a ghost image so should I need to install again I just run ghost.

Quote:

This all really irritates me because I've spent 4 months and thousands of dollars trying to get even one of these up to the standards I was used to. Now, every time I run into something that slows me down, and that is just stupid, I get angry.

So what you should do is stop blameing MS and and buy a PC that meets your needs, never buy a shelf model if you want to custom configure it and if you want to be able to change or reinstall the OS stay away from shelf models. I would not touch a Dell, HP nor Compaq or for that matter any shelf model. If only takes a couple of hours to put one together yourself and you know exactly what you have and you have all the proper drivers. There really is no other way. Most shelf PCs have several inferior pieces of hardware in them to hold the cost down, never include drivers nor a real OS disk and quite often you run into issues if you need to upgrade them, weak PS unit, not enough slots, case to small and so on.

Quote:

One of my favorites is that I was trying to install a CD burner with no luck because one of my driver files was out of date. So I got a new driver file, but it wouldn't install because one of my other driver files was out of date. It ended up taking me about 4 hours to get the CD burner installed.

Really, They are usually plug and play, I think the only thing I had to install was the Light Scribe software for making labels and I could burn CDs even before I installed that.

The system I am on right now I built myself.
Large mid tower case
top of the line gigabyte mb with raid, audio and GB lan on board
4gigs ram
DVD burner
2 1TB Sata drives
2 500MB Sata drives Mirrored
NVidia 9600GT 512mb video card
PII 955 BE CPU 4x3.5ghz OC
750 Watt PSU
120mm cooling fans front and rear
after market CPU cooler with 80mm fan
after market GPU cooler with 80mm fan

Total cost of system before adding software was around $700 and that was about 4 years ago.
Same system now could be built for much less and beats the pants off any shelf model for the money plus is easy to upgrade or service