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Thread: A little story

  1. #31
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    Its rare for Robert Heinlein to be called a communist these days. As an ex-military man (semi-real service here -- navy, battleship service and all that), who at times made suggestions like a person should not be able to participate in the political process until they've served military service, its not really fitting. Someone who believes in economic freedom as much as Heinlein is rarely classified a liberal these days (though it certainly fits the classical liberal name). Yes, he believed in social freedoms as well (like group marriage being legal), and was quite skeptical of mysticism and religion, but I'd call him a libertarian if I were to call him anything at all.
    Those who refuse to support and defend a state have no claim to protection by that state. Killing an anarchist or a pacifist should not be defined as 'murder' in a legalistic sense. The offense against the state, if any, should be 'Using deadly weapon inside city limits,' or 'Creating a taffic hazard,' or 'Endangering bystanders,' or other misdemeanor.

    However, the state may reasonably place a closed season on these exotic asocial animals whenever they are in danger of becoming extinct. An authentic buck pacifist has rarely been seen off Earth, and it is doubtful that any have survived the trouble there .. regrettable, as they had the biggest mouths and the smallest brains of any of the primates.
    */*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/

    "It's hard to believe in something you don't understand." -- the sidhi X-files episode

    galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar

  2. #32
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    Originally posted by galathaea
    Its rare for Robert Heinlein to be called a communist these days. As an ex-military man (semi-real service here -- navy, battleship service and all that), who at times made suggestions like a person should not be able to participate in the political process until they've served military service, its not really fitting. Someone who believes in economic freedom as much as Heinlein is rarely classified a liberal these days (though it certainly fits the classical liberal name). Yes, he believed in social freedoms as well (like group marriage being legal), and was quite skeptical of mysticism and religion, but I'd call him a libertarian if I were to call him anything at all.
    the passage isn't a libertarian view, it's a liberal view, and you object to me classifing it as such, yet you have no objection to passing it as a leftist statement when you would fire back that heinlein was libertarian based on his writings?

    I see it's so much more clear now

  3. #33
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    Originally posted by SolarFlare
    Wow Gilgamesh spoke English... amazing.

    Also Gilgamesh wasn't a real person. Truly, truly fascinating.
    Well, you have it wrong Solarflare. Gilgamesh was a real person. His name shows up in the old king lists. Of course the epic about him was fiction....
    Verere testudinem! (Fear the turtle)

    Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy. -Albert Einstein

    Robots are trying to steal my luggage.

  4. #34
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    Originally posted by Tom Frohman
    Well, you have it wrong Solarflare. Gilgamesh was a real person. His name shows up in the old king lists. Of course the epic about him was fiction....
    I am batman

  5. #35
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    I just wanted to ask if anyone here does have "big" story ?

  6. #36
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    Here is my "Very long and serious" Story

    I have not seen my friend for a day...My friend dosnt want to post in Chitchat anymore...She said she doesnt like any change, though I actualy didnt ask her to change anything.
    I wonder what she is doing ? Is she having fun somewhere ? Does she already finish her project ? If not, she must bne very busy, but after she finishes, will she come here again ?
    I know about her for quite long, she is fun and knows a lot of jokes that could make me laugh alot...
    Where is she ? I am still wondering

    -home

  7. #37
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    To the ends of time I will love you my friend
    Knowing that you're gone leaves me a bend

    An angle to me you were so kind
    Raising my sprits with ways I can not find

    Over and over the days with you replayed
    Loving you so much wished you would have stayed

    I crossed a line which I know not fit
    Now each day I die a little bit

    An empty void replaces what I feel
    Growing sadder and sadder, will I ever heal

    From the feeling of love I felt for a friend

  8. #38
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    Originally posted by Mick
    the passage isn't a libertarian view, it's a liberal view, and you object to me classifing it as such, yet you have no objection to passing it as a leftist statement when you would fire back that heinlein was libertarian based on his writings?

    I see it's so much more clear now
    I just wanted to say, now that I'm all "likered' up" with sangria and just spent some time writing a long (LONG) letter to my employer about all sorts of BS, so I'm in a fightin' mood. Except there's not much to fight there. Darn you Mick! If you wanna fight, at least you need to keep the topic on somethin' we disagree about!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    First of all, the passage is not (NOT!!!) a libertarian view. I used to be a libertarian, and I can honestly say that I have never seen a libertarian espouse such views. But, my point was that he is not a liberal. And I've never seen a liberal espouse such views either. My whole point was that Heinlein is not a liberal, in the modern sense. I've seen conservatives espouse such things as I posted.

    Heinlein sure was called a commie when all the hippies started talking 'bout "grok"ing and love and were reading Stranger in a Strange Land (a beautiful little book, I might add). But his more powerful books like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress were always considered more libertarian leaning (at least, in my brief stay as a libertarian party member, I found alot of converts from that book). And I would consider him for the most part libertarian, despite his water-bed inventing tendencies.

    My whole (now sangria infested) view is that Heinlein is not really a modern liberal. He has certainly said things that liberals would agree with, as well as things conservatives would agree with. He certainly allied himself with the pro-american side of the war generations. The classical (1800's) liberal was defined as a freedom lover in both economic as well as social settings (re: Milton Friedman), but that is not the usual modern use of he term.

    My only use of the quotes was to point out quite non-liberal points he has made. But I know I made the false impression that I was supporting my declaration of him as a liberal. For that I am sorry.

    However, he defended his country and freedom and all that. I won't back down from defending against that characterisation.
    */*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/

    "It's hard to believe in something you don't understand." -- the sidhi X-files episode

    galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar

  9. #39
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    heh heh, I hate to label people myself, I only do that to get simon all fired up about nothing, I just like to push peoples buttons to see what happens another character flaw (yep I've got lots of em)...I always thought if you could say, yep I know it's a character flaw, but at least I'm admitting it right? sorta like the guy who beats his wife...yea I know I beat my wife, but it makes it ok because I acknowledge it

    this whole liberal, conservative, libertarian blabber that people speak is so, well so stupid vote your conscience, for that person that lies close to your views, but the whole problem with that is almost all of them tow the party line so they can have that re-election war chest/support when it's time, that's what is really disgusting to me.

    I wish we had national referendums every year or every 6months....majority rulez...pot would be legal in a heartbeat. Not that I smoke pot...puts me to sleep, but I find it highly retarded to throw people in jail for it...

    case in point...

    http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17591

  10. #40
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    Originally posted by galathaea
    Except there's not much to fight there. Darn you Mick! If you wanna fight, at least you need to keep the topic on somethin' we disagree about!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    just wanted to add, don't worry about the fight thing...I guess I'm up next for the Sam rotation, was 'G's turn last week.

    Almost as bad as talking to the brick headed extermists on the left and on the right...

  11. #41
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    and while I'm on a roll, can someone please tell the liberals that they are twisting the '500 soilders dead in iraq more than the first 4 years of the vietnam war' line
    17,000 us soliders in indochina from 1961 to 1964 (392 deaths) with no major combat action do not equate 130,000 US troops in iraq in 2003-2004

    why don't they talk about 1965 where solider levels raised to 130,000 in vietnam??? hmm??? and deaths were 1,926 that year.

    please stop the spin, your making my head hurt...

  12. #42
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    Originally posted by Tom Frohman
    Well, you have it wrong Solarflare. Gilgamesh was a real person. His name shows up in the old king lists. Of course the epic about him was fiction....
    Ah yes, seems I had better brush up on my Sumerian history before going up against the powerhouses.
    SolarFlare

    Those who cling to life die and those who defy death live. -Sun Tzu

    cout << endl;
    return 0;
    }

  13. #43
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    Ahh... after a good nights sleep, all is good with the world.



    I agree with the labeling problems, too. The reason I stopped being a libertarian was because it is a party full of ideologues who wouldn't change their position on something even if it was shown to lead to unhealthy consequences. They had their "official way to reason about things" which took all the burden off their shoulders about establish proper foundations. Thinking that can't adapt when things are not right is not good thinkin' in my book.

    The problem with labels is that people actually take them as roles to play.
    */*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/

    "It's hard to believe in something you don't understand." -- the sidhi X-files episode

    galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar

  14. #44
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    Originally posted by Deniz
    A boss who runs a factory with a very large and complicated machine finds one morning that the machine is broken down and nobody knows what to do. He has to get it up and running again but like everyone else doesn't know how to fix the problem.

    They call in a technician who comes in, takes a look at the machine, goes around the back of it and hits the machine with a hammer just once on a precise spot. The machine starts working again.

    Next day, the boss gets the bill in the mail for $1000. He is furious as to how anyone can have the nerve to charge that much just for hitting something with a hammer. He gets his secretary to ring the technician up and ask for a detailed invoice.

    The following day he receives the detailed invoice which reads:

    Hitting the machine with a hammer ------------------ $1.00
    Knowing where to hit the machine ------------------ $999.00

    Deniz, I am writing this message is at 1:30 am Monday, around 6 hours later you will come to your workplace and you can use those computers.
    Perhaps I will not be online here anymore.

    I write this to say goodbye first to Deniz, and SolarFlare, and Mr Jones also.

    Deniz and Nina have had good fight at first right ? Deniz used to hit Nina, I really hated you, but then it was different, Deniz is nice, True.

    Nina think carefully, here is really dangerous, those guys always sound like planning to implement a big project to harm people, I am maybe paranoid but I think it will be Me next time. I think when we believe so much in something but later on everything turns out lies, that would be really hard to stand, right ?
    Nina true, Nina's lies arent harmful to anyone but there are a lot of guys here whose lies are much terrible but they are still alive. I wish they go to **** as soon as possible, perhaps ONE minute after they read this post of mine

    Nina know when people falls in ++++, they get selfish and will try all the way to get what they want. But its Okay, Nina wont talk about that.

    Deniz, Deniz stay here, be nice and be good. Deniz is fun...

    Nina still wonder what those people said to make others believe easily ?
    Is it something like "I am really sorry for everything I have done, You are the only one I think of night and day, everything happens beyond my control, Yeah, it was my fault, I am sorry, I promise I wont do anything like that again next time, just tell me to do anything you want me to, I will do with all I can.

    As I have already said, I wont do anything to make you feel bad. Please trust me....I beg you. I wish I could meet you right here so that I could go down on my knee and say a thousand words of Sorrys, for you to make sure of my promise to you
    "

    Is that what those guys like to say ?
    Or something ?
    Deniz, I am crying when I write this to you... True !
    Last edited by Homestead; January 18th, 2004 at 11:59 AM.

  15. #45
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    Originally posted by Homestead
    Deniz, I am crying when I write this to you... True !

    Oh, no, don't cry
    Microsoft LVP - Least Valuable Professional

    Please rate this post... Pleeeeeeaaassee!!!

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