ISO vs CMM

[santoct2002]

ISO 9000 : dirty Water purified only when audit comes.. again will become dirty, it will be purified few days before audit.

CMM : dirty water purified only once... wait untill client gets a feel that we are using dirty water.. again purify starts..

Six Sigma :dirty water purified once and kept in control..

[ovidiucucu]

ISO 9000 : dirty Water purified only when audit comes.. again will become dirty, it will be purified few days before audit.

CMM : dirty water purified only once... wait untill client gets a feel that we are using dirty water.. again purify starts..

Six Sigma :dirty water purified once and kept in control..

Nice definitions.
Please explain by short how keeps Six Sigma under control the purified water.

[santoct2002]

Please explain by short how keeps Six Sigma under control the purified water.

It has DMAIC and DFSS to keep track every SigSigma PROCESS , You can get more details in following page..

http://www.isixsigma.com/dictionary/DMAIC-57.htm

[marsh_pottaye]

It has DMAIC and DFSS to keep track every SigSigma PROCESS

But also ISO 9001:2000 states the PDCA (Plan Do Check Act) cycle, that can keep the water clean between two audits.

[Hokutata]

It always amazes me the defeatist attitude when it comes to software defects. You do realize software runs in medical devices among other things. Would you be fine with ohh > 3.4 defects per million opportunities in that 12 lead they have you hooked up to? How about a ventilator?

It's all about your processes. Is ISO and Six Sigma name recognition...well you bet so fork out the dough but they are also proven processes.

I get dinged alot because I advocate zero defects. Sometimes I really don't understand the nonchalance of my fellow developers.

Well, as I know, ISO9001:2000 introduces also the notion of "zero defects".

But we cannot say that every bug in a software product is a defect.
Maybe at one moment the caption of your medical application can irritate few old nurses when upgrading the hospital computers OSs from Windows 2000 to XP. This is not a defect, it's just a nonconformity that can be easely fixed.

[Mick]

Well, as I know, ISO9001:2000 introduces also the notion of "zero defects".

But we cannot say that every bug in a software product is a defect.
Maybe at one moment the caption of your medical application can irritate few old nurses when upgrading the hospital computers OSs from Windows 2000 to XP. This is not a defect, it's just a nonconformity that can be easely fixed.

You and another individual seem to be missing my point. I think maybe people need to pause and try and differentiate between opinion and fact. There is a big difference between reading about it and being responsible for implementing it. Getting a group of 'sensitive' developers to take responsibility for defects in their code has always been met with resistance in my 15+ years of experience.

It is a pet peeve of mine so I hope that clears it up for you guys. If not, it still doesn't change the facts that I have observed whether in management at the time or one of the developers being asked to buy into following the guidelines.

Maybe they just cut east coast developers out of a different mold and your mileage will vary.

[jfaust]

I came to work and tore off the page of my 2004 Dilbert desk calander. It's Dogbert talking to the pointy haired boss:

Dogbert: You've got to implement a six sigma program or else you're doomed.
Boss: Aren't you the same consultant who sold us the worthless TQM program a few years ago?
Dogbert: I assure you that this program has a totally, totally different name.
Boss: When can we start?

Just thought it was an amusing coincidence.

Jeff

[TheCPUWizard]

Defect "management" is always an interesting topic. There is so much hype that real issues often get overlooked. Just a few notes:

1) An error in something (such as a peice of code) is NOT a bug or defect, DURING THE TIME IT IS IN DEVELOPMENT. It becomes one when either of the following occurs:
a) The test plan for this phase is not sufficient to catch the error
b) The test plan is not properly executed.

If a test is executed within a phase catchs an error, and the error is corrected without the project leaving that phase, then this is merely another cycle of the local iterative process.

The first can be dealt with by having an iterative test process and a good grasp of CDRIL principals [internal analysys to determine the set of stimuli that is needed to exercise all possible operations]. The second can be dealt with only by a strong incentive policy known as "Keep your job".

2) One guarenteed way to avoid ALL errors and defects is to have no specification. If there are no requirements specifying what the program must/should/can do as well as those items which it can't/shouldn't do, then any operational behavour can not be deemed incorrect.


Just as an interesting note, my wife is the Senior administrative assistant to the global chief engineer of Underwriters Laboratories, which is one of the largest certification agencies in the world.

[YourSurrogateGod]

Voted for ISO 9001.
I don't know very much about CMM, but somebody told me that CMM Level 5 means you have nomore bugs reported by the client.
Is this posssible
Sounds like SF.

I've worked in a German company that dables in this. No, there are no more bugs. However, the number of bugs that are reported by the customer are greatly reduced.

[marsh_pottaye]

However, the number of bugs that are reported by the customer are greatly reduced.

But this generally happens: in every company/project the number of reported bugs decreases in time.

[micknustiunimik]

At least in Europe, ISO9001 is pretty enough. It's a nonsense to try others, even googling "CMM" + "certified" + "India" (just for an example) you'll find tens of thousands of results.

[santoct2002]

At least in Europe, ISO9001 is pretty enough. It's a nonsense to try others, even googling "CMM" + "certified" + "India" (just for an example) you'll find tens of thousands of results.

What do you trying to convey here? I could not understand ? Why India? Why you are searching in Google?? ... I am not able to understand.. plz explain.

[ovidiucucu]

What do you trying to convey here? I could not understand ? Why India? Why you are searching in Google?? ... I am not able to understand.. plz explain.

1. He/she said: "just for an example".
2. What are you not able to understand why somebody is searching in Google?

[PadexArt]

1. He/she said: "just for an example".
2. What are you not able to understand why somebody is searching in Google?

Besides, if you do search using that query you'll find 13.800 results. This could mean that CMM is a fairly popular standard in India ( and also Pakistan from the results).

[ovidiucucu]

Besides, if you do search using that query you'll find 13.800 results. This could mean that CMM is a fairly popular standard in India ( and also Pakistan from the results).

That's pretty good, isn't it?