Sith happens! [Caution: Thread contains movie spoilers]

[Deniz]

I've heard C3PO was at last years gay & lesbian mardi gras here in Sydney.

[Max Payne]

hmmm interesting facts...

[Deniz]

He was wearing stillettos & carrying a matching gold coloured purse.

[cilu]

Those are only rumors.

[cilu]

Let Darth Vader read your mind: http://sithsense.com/flash.htm

[Ljais]

Cool forum. I've been a loyal Star Wars fan since the first film which I saw when I was 8 years old. I've seen all the episodes too many time to count. It was these films that inspired me to major in Physics and Electrical Engineering.

I'm glad that Lucas started out with Episode IV. When we get to Episode V and Darth Vader tells Luke that he is Luke's father, that is about the most dramatic moment of the last three episodes. At that point, I wasn't even sure if it was the truth, or a lie by Darth Vader to trick Luke. When the emperor tells Darth Vader that the "son of Anakin Skywalker" must be destroyed and Vader states that "he will join us or die", we still don't know that Darth Vader is really Luke's father. If Lucas had started with Episode I, that drama would have been lost.

Episode III was amazing. I got choked up when Obi-wan had to fight Anakin, and told him how he loved him as a brother, even after Anakin tells Obi-wan that he hates him. I don't know if Lucas could have done any better. The movie was as perfect as possible.

I have a question regarding consistency though. In Episode VI, Luke asks Leia if she remembers anything about her real mother. Leia states that she only remembers that she was sad all the time. If Padme dies in childbirth, how does Leia remember her? Only thing I can think of is that Leia had visions of her mother in her youth - visions that were a result of Leia being endowed with a connection to the force. And since Leia didn't know about her connection with the force, she assumed that her visions of her mother were actual memories. That may be stretching it a little, but I don't know how else to reconcile the events... Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

[NatThoelecke]

When Luke asked Leia abour her real mother she was unaware that Vader was her father and that she wasn't related to Senator Organa's family. She could have been recalling Senator Organa's wife not Padme. It's unclear when or how Leia's adoptive parents die, so Leia's adoptive mother could have died soon after her birth as well.

Although the force vision thing, could also be an explanation, I think we would need a clearer explanation of who and/or how the dead can revisit the living. I was under the impression that it was only possible through use of the force both on the part of the person recieving the vision and the one sending it. If that is that case, then Padme couldn't have appeared to Leia because Padme had no abilities in the force. However, if the visions are only requisite on the receiver being a force user then Leia could have had visions of Padme when she was young that she took to be memories of her real mother.

[Ljais]

I always thought that Leia's adoptive mother was killed along with her adoptive father (Bail Organa) when the Death Star destroyed her home planet of Alderaan.

Also, when I was trying to explain that Leia's memories of her mother were derived from a vision, I didn't mean to say that Padme initiated the vision. Remember when Luke is training with Yoda in Ep. V? He has a vision of Leia and Han in pain. Yoda explains that the force can let you see things that have passed, things as they are, and things of the future. I was guessing that Leia's memories of her real mother were a result of a similar interaction with the force. I was also assuming that Leia knew that she was adopted, as did Luke, since it was so easy for her to understand how Luke could be her brother.

[NatThoelecke]

I have come to believe the representation of the light side of the Force is truth. So when someone is attuned to the Force they can easily come to grips with the truth no matter how difficult such truth would normally be to accept. Leia rather quickly came to accept that Luke was her brother for that very reason, she sort of "saw" it was true through the Force. I don't think her adoption was made public in any way and I came to understand from the interaction between Yoda, Obi-Wan and Senator Organa at the end of Ep. III that they weren't going to let Anakin's children know they were adopted, and more specifically their relation to Vader, to protect them from the Emperor. I doubt Senator Organa would have revealed that to Leia because then her thoughts could have been felt by the Emperor or Vader very easily especially since she was serving as a Senator and likely in frequent contact with the two of them. Follows the principle of someone not able to reveal what they don't know, Leia can't think about what she doesn't know about.

[ahoodin]

Leia rather quickly came to accept that Luke was her brother for that very reason, she sort of "saw" it was true through the Force.

Well when your home planet Alderan winks out like a radar blip, and your suddenly not royalty anymore, you got to believe in something. The death star was another kind of force that could probably change your outlook!

[Skoons]

I've heard C3PO was at last years gay & lesbian mardi gras here in Sydney.

How you have got this information???

[Ljais]

Here's another question I have about consistency:

How old is Obi-Wan Kenobi in each of the episodes?

My best guess:
Episode I: 25 to 30 years old
Episode II: 35 to 40 years old (10 years later, right?)
Episode III: 37 to 45 years old (the Clone Wars animated films, chapters 1-25, seem like they only could cover between 2 to 5 years at the most)
Episode IV: 54 to 62 years old (17 years later, right?)

Obi-Wan looks much older than 62 in Episode IV. (That is, he looks like he is much older than what corresponds to 62 earth years). In the beginning of Ep. IV, Luke is 17 or 18 Tattoine years old - who knows, that may correspond to a greater number of earth years, thus giving Obi-wan time to age. That IS stretching an explanation, I think.

[Ljais]

I don't think her adoption was made public in any way and I came to understand from the interaction between Yoda, Obi-Wan and Senator Organa at the end of Ep. III that they weren't going to let Anakin's children know they were adopted, and more specifically their relation to Vader, to protect them from the Emperor.

From the StarWars.com Databank:

...a member of the Royal Family of Alderaan. Yet despite her stature, for many years, Leia herself was not privy to much of her true heritage.

It was common knowledge throughout the court that Leia was adopted into the Royal Family. What wasn't common knowledge was that Leia was born to Anakin Skywalker...

Leia was aware that she was adopted. She had memories of her birth mother - only that she was beautiful and sad.

[NatThoelecke]

Here's another question I have about consistency:

How old is Obi-Wan Kenobi in each of the episodes?

My best guess:
Episode I: 25 to 30 years old
Episode II: 35 to 40 years old (10 years later, right?)
Episode III: 37 to 45 years old (the Clone Wars animated films, chapters 1-25, seem like they only could cover between 2 to 5 years at the most)
Episode IV: 54 to 62 years old (17 years later, right?)

Obi-Wan looks much older than 62 in Episode IV. (That is, he looks like he is much older than what corresponds to 62 earth years). In the beginning of Ep. IV, Luke is 17 or 18 Tattoine years old - who knows, that may correspond to a greater number of earth years, thus giving Obi-wan time to age. That IS stretching an explanation, I think.

Appearances can be decieving especially when one is adept in the Force. Did you really expect an 800 year-old Yoda to be able to bust out with the moves he pulled in Episodes II & III (without being forewarned of it)? Similarly appearing to be older than 60 isn't that unlikely even though you may only be that age. Some people can appear to be older or younger than their actual age at various times. There were times in Episode I where Obi-wan looked to be almost a teenager and other times seemed to be in his mid-30s.
Also, living conditions sometimes play a factor in aging. The harder the life led the more rapidly one may appear to age. Living in a desert climate is very difficult and could have lead to Obi-Wan "aging" more than the 20 years or so between III and IV. I'd have to say probably only George Lucas knows for sure exactly how these things are explainable if at all.

[RoboTact]

The only thing that I appreciate in SW is that it’s one of the best SF thing created by now. But it's not good at all.
SF is in general is not very elaborated field, you can find only a few examples of profound SF systems in literature. Much worse in cinema. I can name only Space Odyssey 2001 (though it doesn't involve much concepts) and (in general) Babylon 5.
Somehow fantasy is in general more subtle then SF. Maybe it's due to more fixed "framework", concepts are relatively fixed and have external background. Many writers end with sensible world, with logically based actions restrained only by the laws of the world.
In SF the background isn't fixed and many works lead to inconsistent worlds. They are either silly or don't have logical restraints where they experience them: very often there exists evident possibility, deduced from other proven possibilities, but it's taken for granted as impossible under terms of the world. Too much work is required to create connected world having no background. The result of trying to take such background is even worse: the background is exclusively inconsistent irrecoverable system...

SW is "the lesser of evils" path. Concepts (considering intended depth of elaboration) are simple, and basically consistent. Such simplicity can't place distinct restraints, and thus we have many not-that-distinct consistent application of system itself, that is the story. Storyline also doesn't seem sensible, for the causes of actions of characters seem to be unfounded and thus are suspected in being unreasonable. But that's only on surface. Really it's even worse - there is no evident way to place more accurate conditions in the SW world so that they would explain actions and at the same time wouldn't allow other sensible actions contradicting other fixed story events. That's the lack of real base: with the one you can skip details, but there are details to be placed, and if you just make random decisions you end up in fundamentally inconsistent world...