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Thread: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

  1. #16
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    Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    I'd move Mt. Fuji by driving past it in my car. Assuming the car to be one's frame of reference, the mountain is moving. (A cheap answer, I know. )

  2. #17
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    Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Jones
    (That is not to say you should lie-- because you shouldn't. It is only to say that answers in an interview should be a combination of what you believe, but presented in a manner that fits with what you believe works with the organization and people you are interviewing with. )
    This was a long time ago (well, in my terms ). Wouldn't do that now. Of course, I'm glad I didn't get the job now, as I've learnt a lot about that organisation since then...

  3. #18
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    Thumbs up Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    I can understand why they use tests in HR, to get some idea of the person's skills, and provide metrics for comparison. However, like the author of the article, I don't think that a multiple choice test is a good measuring test for problem-solving abilities, critical thinking, or creativity.

    Yes, I did say creativity, because I think creativity is very necessary in a developer's arsenal for problem solving.

    When I first read the title to your article, I thought you were talking about Software Testing. I thought it was interesting about Microsoft's interviewing process. I'm not in the hiring process, I'm on the other side of the desk taking the tests. One thing that really is quite aggravating is having taken classes in college for college credit, then being told I need to take tests for certification! Why! It should be enough that I have taken classes for months and earned the college credit. I understand about standardization, it's just an aggravation.

    Good article, Thanks.
    Last edited by lemonflower; August 3rd, 2005 at 08:29 AM.

  4. #19
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    Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    Quote Originally Posted by Smasher/Devourer
    I'd move Mt. Fuji by driving past it in my car. Assuming the car to be one's frame of reference, the mountain is moving. (A cheap answer, I know. )
    That's what I originally thought upon reading the question.

    Then I thought... just swap the names of Mt. Fuji and another mountain.

  5. #20
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    Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit
    That's what I originally thought upon reading the question.

    Then I thought... just swap the names of Mt. Fuji and another mountain.
    This way you'll be able to move it faster then light.
    "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute."

  6. #21
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    Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    Quote Originally Posted by cilu
    If someone asked me how would I move the Fuji mountain, first I would ask:
    1. How do the people of Japan feel about it?
    2. Are you aware of the enviromental implications of the task?
    3. Why does it need to be moved?
    4. Where does it have to be moved?
    5. What is the timeframe to move it?
    6. Are you sure the beneficiaries can pay the bill?

    Depending on the anwers I could formulate an answer. And with a little hope the interviewer would start to doubt about this project before I answer.
    No no, cilu. If someone asking you these and really needs to move Fuji mountain, never will hire you.
    That's because, analyzing each point of your answer the deadline can be planned after one or two ice ages, it's nosense to explain in details.

    However, there is a quick way to move the Fuji mountain:

    Hire a dozen of interview consultants. For sure the probability that at least one knows how to do it is touchable.
    Not like the tens of thousands developers who did not descover untill now a more trivial question: "Why is a manhole cover round?".
    Last edited by ovidiucucu; August 7th, 2005 at 10:01 AM.
    Ovidiu Cucu
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  7. #22
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    Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Kimmel
    To get hired at Microsoft (at least for the job I was interviewing for), one had to get a unanimous thumbs-up. I got a thumbs-up from everyone who interviewed me but one developer. He said I seemed too much like a manager, which from developers is not a compliment. My secret belief is that he wasn't impressed that I didn't know what string-interning was. (****! Foiled by a fact again.)

    The worst part about the string-interning question is that it was a pre-screening question. I'd been asked the same question during the pre-screen interview, and I forgot it when asked during the Redmond interview a week later. (String interning is how strings are stored internally to conserve memory and is why strings are immutable in .NET.) The truth: During the pre-screen I determined that string interning was beyond my control and a truly irrelevant fact except for the .NET compiler writers, so I immediately discarded the factoid.
    Well, I have few former colleagues working for Microsoft, but cannot ask them about the interview because, of course, they sign some papers to not reveal the secret of round manhole.
    What I know from another one recently applied for. Each of those thumbs-ups is necessary to step to higher level of the interview.
    If indeed, at the higher level a real developer can show a "thumb-down", all my respect, I'm throwing my hat.

    /keep ahead and don't give up!
    Ovidiu Cucu
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  8. #23
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    Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    Quote Originally Posted by ovidiucucu
    Not like the tens of thousands developers who did not descover untill now a more trivial question: "Why is a manhole cover round?".
    But the answer is simple: Because manholes are round.

    And just in case this is followed by the question "Why are manholes round?": Simply because tubes with a circular cross-section are structurally the most stable...

  9. #24
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    Re: "Why I'm Testy About Tests"

    Quote Originally Posted by gstercken
    But the answer is simple: Because manholes are round.
    The way that I also thought... For that I did't join MS.

    Q. Why AC is used for electricity transport?
    A. Because, using transformers...

    No, no. Just because, even Edison invented the electric chair to demonstrate how dangerous is AC vs. DC, he failed and lost the competition with George Westinghouse. But for sure in a parallel world in which Edison won, the humanity found the right solution to easily/cheap transform and transport DC.
    As well, we can find advantages of the square manholes, and...


    EDIT:
    Trying to construct a MFC-Extension library encapsulating the round manhole covers. I'm implementing now:
    Code:
    class CRoundManholeCoverException : public CException
    Just in case. Nobody can 100% guarantee that never a non-round one can appear.
    Last edited by ovidiucucu; August 8th, 2005 at 08:14 AM.
    Ovidiu Cucu
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