Over 100++ years in jail?

[thooomy]

XEON....

i am really shocked how your country handle yor prisoners and think that
this against mostly every human right...

what if your government punish a unguilty or a political opponent like this ?
(and i am sure they do !)

There NO kind of death penalty or physical penalty in whole europe since decades.. and it works well here... there is no need for such medieval pratices anymore...

[Melian]

Bijaubrahamp, that is what I'm talking about.

And yeah, Jack the Ripper did deserve death. I'm sure I read somewhere that it's possible that he killed himself and that there were eight theories as to who he was.

Xeon, in the UK we don't have the death penalty, even though I'm sure there has been some sort of debate in the last 2/3 decades saying that it should be brought back. However, there was a case in the 1950s where a man killed loads of women and someone admitted to the crime and got hanged. Later on, the real person who did it was put on trial and got hanged. (The right person this time)

[Siddhartha]

I am not against Death Penalty for sake of "humane practices".

Jack the Ripper, Terrorists, Serial Killers, etc deserve the worst - and if something happens to them - even a Death Sentence, then I dont feel sorry.

The reason why I oppose the Death Sentence is that it is pretty quick, and the lifelong suffering the convict causes to the kith and kin of the people they torment is really not reflected in this justice system that gives them a 2-minute demise.

Such criminals dont become examples of what-happens-when-you-murder for justice is done quickly and they are forgotten just as quickly (out of sight and out of mind syndrome).
I agree with Smasher that Death Penalty is not a deterrent at all.

Personally, I would rather prefer keeping those convicted of heinous crimes in a dungeon for life - this is one environment that renders psychological and physical punishment.

It will IMO truly punish the convicts for the lifelong sufferings they subjected others to.

[NoHero]

Oh yeah, about high-security asylum. There's another kind of imprisonment called solo-confinement, isn't there? Like you're trapped in a cell and there's only you and 4 walls. No table, no chair, nothing.

If I'm not wrong, this is to torture your emotions and mental strength, and I do think that one will go crazy/unsane after a period of time.

Those "cells" are only for people who are in danger to harm themselfs. So the walls are soften out, no chair no table not even glasses (danger to harm yourself with the glass). And such a nice jacket where you permanently hugging yourself. Everything is just that you cannot harm yourself. This has it's reason. Beleive me. If the doctors beleive you are that far healed that you won't harm yourself anymore, you get out of this. I think.

[bijuabrahamp]

In Saudi Arabia, severe punishments are given for many crimes.. most of them are beheading and stonning.
For example :

Crimes subject to the death sentence included murder, apostasy from Islam, adultery, drug smuggling, and sabotage. Under certain conditions, rape and armed robbery could also lead to execution. Executions could be carried out by beheading, firing squad, or stoning of the convicted person in a drugged state. All seventeen executions carried out in 1990 were by beheading.

more here..

So as a result, the crime rate over there is very low

[Xeon]

From Thoomy:

XEON....i am really shocked how your country handle yor prisoners and think thatthis against mostly every human right

And now you're talking about "human rights"?
What I don't understand is......there ought to be a sensible amount of "human right". Is it a human right to own a gun? To kill? It's my right, eh? So......why is the law trying to punish folks like this since it's their right?

what if your government punish a unguilty or a political opponent like this?(and i am sure they do!)

Nah, they don't! In our country, there never was a guy who got sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit. Reason for this is that probably the rate of serious crime is low, and also the courts give a very thorough trial before any kind of sentence, with appealing as an option in case of anything.
As for political opponents, there were a couple in my country.......but they got a few days of jail and some fines at the most. No death sentences.

Like I said, over here, death sentences are given only to murderers and drug traffickers.
In the case of murderers, they get the death sentence only when the law has obvious proof of their crime, like caught on camera, seen by lots of witnesses, significant tell-tale signs and other evidence.

In the case of drug traffickers sentenced to death, I do think it's a bit too harsh, since drug trafficking is not as direct as murder.

But then again, look at the bright side. It's because of such serious laws that the students here don't smoke pot or whatever crap.
I do know that in the US and UK, 8 outta 10 teens have smoked pot or marijuana at some time or another. Is this good? No!

There NO kind of death penalty or physical penalty in whole europe since decades.. and it works well here... there is no need for such medieval pratices anymore

Works well here? But that's why there's all kinds of atrocious acts happening over there. What's this about a father who got beaten to death by a bunch of teens during a major football match? One of the teen asked the poor guy for a lighter. He said no, and his gang started to clobber him to death. I know for sure that "happy slapping" or "yobbing", is more popular and more popular in the UK now.
I'm not saying that these guys deserve such a serious punishment such as death, but I know for sure that these guys will be sent for counselling and maybe a couple weeks of jail, and then they'll go out again, bolder than ever.

Look at China and other countries like India. Their method of death sentence is to line up the prisoners in a row, blindfold them, and get the cops to mass-shoot.

From Biju:

In Saudi Arabia, severe punishments are given for many crimes.. most of them are beheading and stonning.
Crimes subject to the death sentence included murder, apostasy from Islam, adultery, drug smuggling, and sabotage. Under certain conditions, rape and armed robbery could also lead to execution. Executions could be carried out by beheading, firing squad, or stoning of the convicted person in a drugged state. All seventeen executions carried out in 1990 were by beheading.more here..
So as a result, the crime rate over there is very low

See? Stricter laws == less crime rates, happier residents and more peaceful streets at night.

I do find that those stoning, beheading and firing squad kinda execution is too barbaric. An electric chair/lethal injection will do just fine.

Also, one other thing I just don't understand. In the US and other countries, it's ok to possess a gun. Once, I asked MiCk about this, and he says "you need a gun to protect yourself".

Again, what I'm totally puzzled about is : protect yourself?
If a country bans it's citizens(except cops) from carrying guns, what is there to worry about?
That Colorado incident several years ago(I think in 1999 or 2000) won't happen if the students and civilian ain't allowed to carry guns.

Walk into most American homes today and you'll fine a pistol in their drawers. The moment their neighbours quarrel with them, and in that fit of berserk anger where the mind loses control, BANG!!!!!!
If these guys have no guns, it's only knifes and rods at the most, and the damage isn't that great. Some even possess shotguns, can you beat that?

The idea is : I got a gun, you got a gun. If society makes me mad, I'll carry my beloved pistol and shoot the crap outta them.
What about that incident of 2 boys driving around in a car shooting at every one they see, including a 3 year old little girl? Sick, isn't it?



Good day,
Xeon.

[thooomy]

XEON ...one happy day you and your country will arise.... and see what they have done ...

And now you're talking about "human rights"?
What I don't understand is......there ought to be a sensible amount of "human right". Is it a human right to own a gun? To kill? It's my right, eh? So......why is the law trying to punish folks like this since it's their right?

There is a human right to live....

But then again, look at the bright side. It's because of such serious laws that the students here don't smoke pot or whatever crap.
I do know that in the US and UK, 8 outta 10 teens have smoked pot or marijuana at some time or another. Is this good? No!

but.. yes .. i dont think that smoking pot is a bad thing .. it is even less dangerous than alkohol
in the netherlands it is allowed .. and they have no higher crime rate there...

Works well here? But that's why there's all kinds of atrocious acts happening over there. What's this about a father who got beaten to death by a bunch of teens during a major football match? One of the teen asked the poor guy for a lighter. He said no, and his gang started to clobber him to death. I know for sure that "happy slapping" or "yobbing", is more popular and more popular in the UK now.
I'm not saying that these guys deserve such a serious punishment such as death, but I know for sure that these guys will be sent for counselling and maybe a couple weeks of jail, and then they'll go out again, bolder than ever.

i think you watch to much sh** in tv .... have you ever been in europe ?

See? Stricter laws == less crime rates, happier residents and more peaceful streets at night.

thats soooooooooo wrong.. look at the USA

I do find that those stoning, beheading and firing squad kinda execution is too barbaric. An electric chair/lethal injection will do just fine.

come on.. they are dead afterwards.. thats what you want .. so what ???

Also, one other thing I just don't understand. In the US and other countries, it's ok to possess a gun. Once, I asked MiCk about this, and he says "you need a gun to protect yourself".

Europe: no guns for the people AND no death penalty... believe it or not...
I cross the streets without any panic of beeing shot.. i never saw a gun in my life .. even our cops are not allowed to shot people (only for self-defence)
a huge part of them do not even have guns with them !!! (that and low crime rate an no death-penalty... can you believe this ???)

[Xeon]

From Thoomy:

XEON ...one happy day you and your country will arise.... and see what they have done ...

Rest assured this will never happen. I dunno, though. Maybe it's because our kind of government and law are very suitable for a little island-nation like us.
We barely have 4.2 million people(and 1.5 million++ are expatriates) and our entire country is only as big as the capital of Netherlands, or even smaller.
(considering you can journey from the west point to east point of my country in under 2 hours time on car at 100 miles per hour)

There is a human right to live

Yes, and these humans you're talking about kill others. For a lot of them, it's not just one or two. Some have killed about 5 or more in decades.
They've already killed and murdered. What else does life still offer them?

U think that by sparing them, they'll turn over a new leaf and become angels when they die? Have you been watching too much religious movies, like the Passion of Christ or those Buddhism videos?

but.. yes .. i dont think that smoking pot is a bad thing .. it is even less dangerous than alkohol in the netherlands it is allowed .. and they have no higher crime rate there

If pot was that good, the doctors would encourage folks to smoke it everyday already. It's best to limit things to the bare minimum. Like us. Only cigarettes and alcohol. No heroin, no marijuana.
I think that in Netherlands, if you're caught smoking heroin(which is a very heavy and seriously true drug), the cops will at the most say "Hey kid! No more of these stuff from now on, k? Now, run home". Isn't it?
Or maybe they'll give you a pretty counsellor to counsel you for a few days and you're free again.

i think you watch to much sh** in tv .... have you ever been in europe?

Nah, I've never been to Europe. But my perception currently of Europe is that it's full of young angry teens and rascists who can't wait to mug and club a solo passer-by to death, especially if they're foreigners.
No offence, but I've read about all these in the newspapers(national news, not tabloids), the TV, other media, magazines and even the internationally trust-worthy Readers' Digest.
Or maybe you're living in the European countryside, far away from the bustling cities?
One French has told me that if I ever visit Europe, I gotta stay away from the big cities, especially at night. U know what that means.

Again, have you ever been to Britain(London and other wild cities)?
I know Netherlands is a peaceful country compared to other European ones; that's why I've never seen any negative report about Netherlands since the first day I read the news. Maybe you gotta go live in more notorious countries.

From Xeon:

See? Stricter laws == less crime rates, happier residents and more peaceful streets at night.

From Thoomy:

hats soooooooooo wrong.. look at the USA

Don't make me laugh, kid! The USA has strict laws? All it's laws, except for the Copyright law, are totally relaxed, I tell you. I can go ******* rape some cutie out there and walk outta jail a few months later. Or even earlier if I hire a darn good lawyer.
If you're talking about strict laws, then it's years of jail + caning for rapists. An example. That's what I call strict.

Also, what's this about guns in the US? A few years ago, the mom of a kid who got shot in school organized this event called "The Million Moms March", whereby moms across all America unite and protest together, asking Bush to ban all guns for civilians.
However, the war cowboy was more interested in war games and so.....that's another story.

Even most European countries have "stricter laws" than the US. It depends on each country, I guess. In Britain, their crime focus is on paedophiles.
In Singapore, our crime focus is on rapists and murderers. In the US, their crime focus, if I'm not wrong, is either on copyright or terrorists.
Oh my FFFFFF god.

come on.. they are dead afterwards.. thats what you want .. so what ???

Well, my stand is that murderers and people who committ unpardonable crime should get death.
I mean, com'on. If a human murders another human, what hope is there for him? I gotta iterate this again. Yes......a murderer who kills for evil reasons. If you don't give him death, what do u wanna do with him? Send him to jail and waste space? Or show him cartoons and morality shows so that he can turn good?

Over here, if you kill for a valid or semi-valid reason(like if your husband keep beating you and you kill him), you will get life or decades in jail.
If you kill for an evil reason(like if you kill to rob or kill to rape), you get death.

Back to the method of execution......well, if you wanna execute someone, you gotta do it in a cleaner and more modern way.

i never saw a gun in my life .. even our cops are not allowed to shot people (only for self-defence)

Of course. Most cops in civilized countries don't shoot unless they've no choice. Like if they're being stabbed etc.

a huge part of them do not even have guns with them !!! (that and low crime rate an no death-penalty... can you believe this ???)

Now, just how much people/population are there in the Netherlands? If it's 3 or 4 million people spread over a country the size of Wales or half of England, of course the crime rate would be low, because masses of humans don't live together.



Good day,
Xeon.

[thooomy]

First of all..I'm not from the Netherlands (never said that)

Yes, and these humans you're talking about kill others. For a lot of them, it's not just one or two. Some have killed about 5 or more in decades.
They've already killed and murdered. What else does life still offer them?

nothing.. but for me.. its no reason to kill them...
if you have a very disabled guy.. life also do not have much for him.. but thats also no reason to kill them

U think that by sparing them, they'll turn over a new leaf and become angels when they die? Have you been watching too much religious movies, like the Passion of Christ ?

.. i hate that *** movie...

I think that in Netherlands, if you're caught smoking heroin(which is a very heavy and seriously true drug), the cops will at the most say "Hey kid! No more of these stuff from now on, k? Now, run home". Isn't it?

i dont think so...

Nah, I've never been to Europe. But my perception currently of Europe is that it'

seriously think about THAT fact.. and what you wrote before...

s full of young angry teens and rascists who can't wait to mug and club a solo passer-by to death, especially if they're foreigners.
No offence, but I've read about all these in the newspapers(national news, not tabloids), the TV, other media, magazines and even the internationally trust-worthy Readers' Digest.
Or maybe you're living in the European countryside, far away from the bustling cities?One French has told me that if I ever visit Europe, I gotta stay away from the big cities, especially at night. U know what that means.

I do not live in a "countryside" i life in a million-city in germany ...
and still: i daily see cops without guns on our streets...
no massive gangs of racists guys or "drive-by-shooting".. so as i already said: you read/watch to much s*** in your media...

Try to read something really interesting about the countries (for example how they life, about the landscape and the way of life of the inhabitants !)
If you only read that "Bad-New-And-Panic-Its-So Dangerous-Out-There"
kind of stuff so its clear that you think if you go there you have to die in cause of the thousands of mass-murders running with their knifes through european cities

If i watch the news.. the only things i see about east-asia are about natural catastrophes, kidnapping or Epidemics.... but i still think that here is a lot of interesting to see there, ...friendly people, big nature ... and i am going to visit this area if i can

Again, have you ever been to Britain(London and other wild cities)?

London yes, twice.. really nice there
Berlin, very often
Paris... mmh Barcelona... Venice (okay thats not wild.. but very nice)
Budapest
.... okay i think its enough.. i was also at night in this cities and i am still alive

I know Netherlands is a peaceful country compared to other European ones; that's why I've never seen any negative report about Netherlands since the first day I read the news. Maybe you gotta go live in more notorious countries.

maybe.. i never been to the netherlands..
but i was in France.. very beautifull country... and the cities..?
mmh never met those guys you talk about... okay maybe there are one
but you also would not going to those unfriendly "areas" in your cities at night in your country, wouldn't you ?

Don't make me laugh, kid! The USA has strict laws? All it's laws, except for the Copyright law, are totally relaxed, I tell you. I can go ******* rape some cutie out there and walk outta jail a few months later. Or even earlier if I hire a darn good lawyer.
If you're talking about strict laws, then it's years of jail + caning for rapists. An example. That's what I call strict.

thats another problem.. that the us-judgement can be buyed with money (inderict with the lawyers), but the laws are very strict. Its in california where you cet busted for 25 years if do a crime three times ? (and the third one can be stealing a chewing-gum or something ..)
do you know how many people were executed in texas in the last years ?

Also, what's this about guns in the US? A few years ago, the mom of a kid who got shot in school organized this event called "The Million Moms March", whereby moms across all America unite and protest together, asking Bush to ban all guns for civilians.
However, the war cowboy was more interested in war games and so.....that's another story.

also another topic... the guns in the us.. omg.. they are crazy i agree...

Well, my stand is that murderers and people who committ unpardonable crime should get death.
I mean, com'on. If a human murders another human, what hope is there for him? I gotta iterate this again. Yes......a murderer who kills for evil reasons. If you don't give him death, what do u wanna do with him? Send him to jail and waste space? Or show him cartoons and morality shows so that he can turn good?

nobody is helped by killing him..or what ?.... do think the family of his vitim is happy after he is dead ?....

Back to the method of execution......well, if you wanna execute someone, you gotta do it in a cleaner and more modern way.

you can not kill someone in a "clean and modern way"....

Now, just how much people/population are there in the Netherlands? If it's 3 or 4 million people spread over a country the size of Wales or half of England, of course the crime rate would be low, because masses of humans don't live together.

look above ....

[bijuabrahamp]

Look at China and other countries like India. Their method of death sentence is to line up the prisoners in a row, blindfold them, and get the cops to mass-shoot.

If they ever do anything like that in India, the government will be shot!
In India, people get the hang peanlity for very serious crimes... I don't think they will be given a more worse penality than that.

[Xeon]

Ah well, Thoomy. U've given me some really nice and useful insight indeed. I'll not argue and debate with you anymore.
U'll never win, neither will I. Unless this exalted and godly debate of ours gets brought up the governments.
To each his own, I guess.



Have a nice day, all!
Xeon.

[Melian]

There NO kind of death penalty or physical penalty in whole europe since decades.. and it works well here... there is no need for such medieval pratices anymore...

But won't famalies of people (victims) murdered feel that justice hasn't been done because life doesn't mean life (apart from a criminal record of course) and that the murderer will be walking free in a few years or so? (And yes, I'm contradicting myself as to what I said earlier about thinking that the death penalty is unkust)

[thooomy]

But won't famalies of people (victims) murdered feel that justice hasn't been done ...

Maybe some, yes...
I dont know how it is in other countries in europe, but in germany we are a very pacifistic country today (even if the world think we are not, but here 80% of the people were against the iraqi war in any cases)

The reason for that is our history - it showed us that a country can misuse its power in a very terrible way- and so it is impossible that there will be any death penalty or euthanasia here, because it is against our constitution

And so .. most of us.. (i can not speak for everyone, of course) learned that killing a human is wrong in any cases and that it will not help the victims....

yes of course ... sometimes in extreme cases ....that is very hard..

[ksujeet83]

Hi xeon,
i dunno where you got this

Look at China and other countries like India. Their method of death sentence is to line up the prisoners in a row, blindfold them, and get the cops to mass-shoot.

In India the death penalty is done only by hanging. The method which you ascribed was done during the britishers rule to indian freedom fighters. today the death penalty is rarely given( even if it is given the criminal can ask for presidential pardon!!!!!!)

Nevertheless..it's a nice discussion .

Regards,

Sujeet Kuchibhotla