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Thread: God and religion

  1. #181
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    Re: God and religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigel
    I know it sounds like a doctrinal error but it isn't.
    Every sin has a certain punishment associated with it. God is perfectly just and righteous in executing justice. Therefore if Christ paid for everyone's sin, no one can be sent into damnation. It is impossible since their sins have been paid for.

    People can say "We can accept or reject salvation". If they reject salvation for what sin will God impute against them?
    God would be unjust to condemn a person for a sin that has already been paid for.

    God does not wish for any of his people whom he has chosen to perish. Just as God has chosen the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, so he has chosen his true spiritual nation. The nation of Israel were a small selected group of people compared to the nations around them. This is a shadow of the true nation of Israel, the body of believers. This cannot be every single human being.
    Oooh a theological discussion on doctrine, I love it...

    What you said sounds suspiciously like something an LDS member would say, which of course isn't Biblical.

    The sins of every man is forgiven if they have faith in Jesus.

    Just like the snake in the desert during Moses' time. When Moses said lift up your eyes to the snake and you will be saved, those who did were saved, those who didn't believe Moses died. The bronze snake was there for anyone who wanted it, not just for chosen ones. In the same way Jesus has been slain as our passover lamb & so anyone who wishes can be saved from God's coming judgement. Let me back that up with a verse.

    "For all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved" Romans 10:13 (or 5:8 can't remember off the top of my head).
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  2. #182
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    Re: God and religion

    In my opinion, Jesus was crucified so that he can open the gates of heaven to the people. I have a question, why do you think God planted that tree in the middle of paradise?? hmm..

  3. #183
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    Re: God and religion

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpionking
    In my opinion, Jesus was crucified so that he can open the gates of heaven to the people. I have a question, why do you think God planted that tree in the middle of paradise?? hmm..
    I guess the soil might have been better in the middle of paradise...


    I don't know, the Bible doesn't tell us that (as far as I know) and I don't think it matters.

    Maybe the tree of "knowledge of good and evil" as it is called is just a symbolic way of speaking about "knowledge of good and evil". The first 12 chapters of Genesis are thought to have symbolic meanings by many scholars today.
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  4. #184
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    Re: God and religion

    LDS member? I've never heard of them.

    Ok let's have a healthy theological debate. I'm going to quote from scripture as much as possible and allow the scripture to talk for itself. If I'm wrong about anything I'd be very ready to change my doctrine.

    Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

    True anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will become saved. But no one in their own nature will do so. God needs to draw us and give us eyes to see and ears to hear so that we will understand the gospel and call upon the name of the Lord. God gets the credit for saving us and bringing us to life. Remember that before we become saved we are a spiritually dead corpse with no life. Just as God breathed into Adam and gave him physical life, God's Word must penetrate our soul to give us spiritual life.

    Let's interpret scripture with scripture.

    Romans 3:10-11 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

    John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

    No one seeks after God because no one has the ability to do so.
    God must draw us first before we start to seek after Him.

    John 6:65-70 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

    Simon Peter is convinced that Jesus is the Son of God and still wants to follow Jesus even though Jesus teaches everyone that no one can come to him unless the Father draws them. Simon Peter still believes despite this fact and despite the fact that some of Jesus disciples left and turned away from Jesus' teaching. What was Jesus' response? "Have I not chosen you?"

    The reason why we may call upon God is because God has called us first. God does the choosing. If we desire to seek God then it means God chose us first. If we never have the desire to seek after God then it means God hasn't chosen us. In all circumstances God gets all the credit and glory.

    Please read Romans 9 carefully.

  5. #185
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    Re: God and religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Deniz
    What you said sounds suspiciously like something an LDS member would say, which of course isn't Biblical.
    Ah... looked up what an LDS member was. No I'm not Mormon.
    I don't agree with Mormon doctrine at all.

    I agree with your statement "isn't Biblical".

  6. #186
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    Re: God and religion

    I am familiar with the book of Romans.

    There are more scripture which could back up your claims such as "God makes the pots & He decides which ones he will throw in the trash & which ones he will put on top of a shelf" and others you mentioned. (can't remember the verse of that one but if you've read the NT you should be aware of it).

    It is common teaching for evangelists that it is God's work they are carrying out, God has already chosen his people, we only need carry the message. The parable of the sower of the seeds backs this up as well.

    So I'm not disagreeing with what you said.

    What I am disagreeing with is 2 points.

    1) It is, in my opinion, an unhealthy approach to take by exhalting ourselves because 'God chose us' when evangelising and so such doctrinal points can be left to later discussions after one becomes a Christian. It may also be easy for an unbeliever to not bother looking into Christianity because 'he probably isn't chosen anyway'.

    2) Jesus paid for the sin of mankind and so we are forgiven if we put our faith in this very fact, no where in the Bible does it say He only paid for the sin of some people & others were not paid for. Their sins will be held accountable because they did not put their trust in Jesus even though He laid down His life for them.

    Not trying to be a smart-alec here. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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  7. #187
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    Re: God and religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Deniz
    1) It is, in my opinion, an unhealthy approach to take by exhalting ourselves because 'God chose us' when evangelising and so such doctrinal points can be left to later discussions after one becomes a Christian. It may also be easy for an unbeliever to not bother looking into Christianity because 'he probably isn't chosen anyway'.

    2) Jesus paid for the sin of mankind and so we are forgiven if we put our faith in this very fact, no where in the Bible does it say He only paid for the sin of some people & others were not paid for. Their sins will be held accountable because they did not put their trust in Jesus even though He laid down His life for them.
    Yes, it is unhealthy to exhalt ourselves in any way shape or form.
    The mark of a Christian is a life of humility not pride. When explaining deep doctrine I have to dive into these subjects but please forgive me in case I have come across as arrogant. My intentions were never to exhalt myself as a "chosen one". None of us deserve to go to heaven and we each deserve to pay for our own sins.

    Secondly, yes these are topics that are meat and not milk. However, when explaining the cross I can't better explain it but going into these topics to show God's hand at work and his plan. In my walk I never fully understood the cross until I realized the true payment Jesus had to make for our sins. After I learned this I learned to appreciate how much Jesus loves each one of us.

    I agree, with your second statement as well. Anyone that puts their faith and trust in Jesus Christ and repents of their sins will be saved.
    We don't know whom God has chosen and it's none of our business.
    The opportunity of salvation is extended to every single human being.

    John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

  8. #188
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    Re: God and religion

    So we agree then.

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  9. #189
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    Re: God and religion

    Yes we are in agreement!

    God exists...
    The scriptures are true...

    Amen

  10. #190
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    Re: God and religion

    well, I'm certainly convinced!

  11. #191
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    Re: God and religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb
    well, I'm certainly convinced!

    Hang on, let me bring out a 4,5 kg block letter hard cover Bible to Bible bash you until you are convinced Zeb...
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  12. #192
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    Re: God and religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Deniz
    Hang on, let me bring out a 4,5 kg block letter hard cover Bible to Bible bash you until you are convinced Zeb...
    Hey - it works for the catholic church!

  13. #193
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    Re: God and religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb
    Hey - it works for the catholic church!
    Please don't get me started.
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  14. #194
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    Re: God and religion

    I've just received this email:
    I think the crucial question is not why God doesn't reveal himself to us; he may simply be too busy, creating new universes or something. Rather, why didn't he make his existence obvious from his creations? For example, he could easily have signed his creatures so that we somewhere on the animal would find something like:

    Copyright © The Sixth Day, God. This animal is commanded to be fruitful and multiply. It may do so freely, provided that this copyright notice is included.

    But seriously, it is inconceivable to me that a God could have played any significant role in the creation of the universe without leaving unmistakable evidence of his existence.
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  15. #195
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    Re: God and religion

    Romans 1:18-20 "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
    The creation of this universe itself is evidence and bears evidence that God exists. No man is without excuse.

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