Flash vs. Silverlight

[HKothari]

Alright, I know this is a really dumb question to ask, but what is the major plus of Silverlight over Flash? Won't it face the same accessibility problems as flash for people who don't have it installed, plus, from my experiences with it, it seems slower than flash. Am I completely off, or is there some logic to my thinking?

[Arjay]

There a plenty of opinions on this on the internet and I don't have the Flash experience to discuss the differences, however, I can give my opinion on what appeals to me.

I've done Windows UI programming for a long time and I have always felt that in terms of usability and user experience, web based UI's have always fallen short of what an application based UI can provide.

I find that with coding up asp using C#, I can begin to approach the richness (user experience richness, that is) of a form app, but often have to drop down to coding in javascript to achieve acceptable results. I don't like having to do this.

WPF in terms of installed app UI has made it possible to achieve things that were very difficult to achieve in a C# form app or a Win32 or MFC app. Embedding audio and video to name a few. This capability has much appeal for the types of things I would like to create. WPF is good news for Windows applications, but no real news for web development.

Silverlight brings the promises of WPF to the web (albeit a subset). When I started looking at the Alpha 1.1 build (I skipped SL 1.0 because it's only javascript), it didn't come with any built-in controls which I missed. Well, apparently I wasn't the only one as MS took notice of the feedback and added some basic controls in the September refresh release.

I am interested in building secure localizate web applications with the UI richness that I expect from a standalone Windows application.

One main concern of mine is the development environment that I am working. Since xaml is shared between WPF and Silverlight, I can use the UI editor to create UI's for either target. While not perfect at this point, I expect this to improve as SL gets closer to a release.

I want to be able to code like I'm creating a Windows app and just target the Web. I believe Silverlight will allow me to do this.

That to me is exciting.

[TheCPUWizard]

Arjay is pretty much on target.

I have been chosing SilverLight quite heavily. It allows me do leverage a common base, including libraries that have their roots going back a long time. Flash requires it's own complete programming environment.

So if you are ONLY going to be devloping application for which Flash is appropriate, the choice is not so eash. But if you develop differnt types of applications, then the investment in SilverLight is virtually guarenteed to have a much larger payoff...

[HKothari]

But won't the payoffs only be as big as the user group, and right now, very few people use silverlight, don't they?

[Arjay]

Sure there is more of an install base for Flash at present, but since it is so easy to install, this will quickly become a non-issue.

Users will be also able to get it via Windows Update and eventually it will come installed on any new Windows OS. A non-Windows install is quick and easy as well.

You can read more about it at Microsoft Silverlight: Light Up the Web.

[stlowe]

Hi HKathari
I'd take what Arjay has to say a bit farther. Not only does XAML allow you to use the same UI for both WPF (for desktop apps) and silverlight (for web apps), but both can be created with C# or VB.Net or your .Net language of choice, and both Silverlight and WPF use an event-driven model that's familiar to traditional non-web developers (without postbacks). Silverlight applications are also easier to debug than server-generated HTML applications, since execution is local.
This is big news for desktop developers who want to develop or port applications to the web, since the developer skills and code behavior don't need to change nearly as much.
It's also big news for dev managers and team leads, since it reduces the need for web and desktop as separate areas of expertise on a development team.
Stephen Lowe
disclaimer: though I work for Microsoft as an Architect Evangelist, my opinions (and occasional errors) are my own.

[dglienna]

Plus, FLASH will never be pushed down as a Windows Update. It won't be long before Silverlight 2.0 is on every desktop.

[TheCPUWizard]

.... Not only does XAML allow you to use the same UI for both WPF (for desktop apps) and silverlight (for web apps)...
....disclaimer: though I work for Microsoft as an Architect Evangelist, my opinions (and occasional errors) are my own....

Not exactly (at least in the current release) Silverlight is an improper subset of WPF. As a result (for any non-trivial situation) it is impractical/impossible to create a single XAML file that can be used without any modification for both a high quality SilverLight site and a WPF application.

FYI: I am a former MCS Sr. Consultant, and have had to actually implement and support many "AE" architectures and designs...

[Arjay]

Not exactly (at least in the current release) Silverlight is an improper subset of WPF. As a result (for any non-trivial situation) it is impractical/impossible to create a single XAML file that can be used without any modification for both a high quality SilverLight site and a WPF application.

FYI: I am a former MCS Sr. Consultant, and have had to actually implement and support many "AE" architectures and designs...

In version 2, Beta 1 there is more alignment between SL and WPF. Perhaps Stephen can publicly comment on whether Microsoft plans to have SL closer to being a perfect subset of WPF?

[gstercken]

Perhaps Stephen can publicly comment on whether Microsoft plans to have SL closer to being a perfect subset of WPF?

AFAIK this will never happen. Both on the WPF / XAML side, and on the .NET framework coverage, SL is designed to remain a subset with a much smaller memory footprint (especially with the non-Windows platforms in mind).

[Arjay]

AFAIK this will never happen. Both on the WPF / XAML side, and on the .NET framework coverage, SL is designed to remain a subset with a much smaller memory footprint (especially with the non-Windows platforms in mind).

What I mean is that of the WPF features that will be supported in SL, the method calls/syntax will be the same.

[geero]

Users will be also able to get it via Windows Update and eventually it will come installed on any new Windows OS. A non-Windows install is quick and easy as well.

cool. i didn't know silverlight worked for linux until i read that post. just installed moonlight.
checked some sites that should work.
they don't..
i tried both profile 1 and 2 from go-mono.com
it may be something about my OS being 64bit [as there are problems with flash]
i'm using firefox 3.0b5 on Kubuntu 64bit

[Arjay]

Sorry to hear that this didn't work yet.

What complicates things at this point is the Beta software and the fact that some sites are running SL1, SL1.1, or the SL2 Beta 1.

I believe in a short time, most sites will convert their content to SL2.0 and any mismatching between content will become a thing of the past.