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View Poll Results: Why VB 6.0

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  • My employer/school requires it - and provides a valid licensed copy

    7 28.00%
  • My employer/school requires it - I dont know if I am legal

    2 8.00%
  • Been using if for years legally and see not reason to upgrade to (free) new version

    13 52.00%
  • Got a copy of it from somewhere..

    4 16.00%
  • I didn't know any better

    1 4.00%
  • I am a caveman...

    7 28.00%
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Thread: Why VB 6.0??

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  1. #1
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    Why VB 6.0??

    Just curious... given that it is no longer supported (support ended over 3 years ago March 31, 2005)
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  2. #2
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Well, support for older software is one reason. Doesn't mean that the next version isn't in the works, though.

    It'd be hard for a VB MVP to not use VB6, though.
    David

    CodeGuru Article: Bound Controls are Evil-VB6
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  3. #3
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Quote Originally Posted by dglienna
    Well, support for older software is one reason. Doesn't mean that the next version isn't in the works, though.

    It'd be hard for a VB MVP to not use VB6, though.
    David, you (and the other VB MVP's) I understand...

    Also corporations with Enterprise Service Agreements still having to support VB6.0 application while they are developing replacements for VB9.0 or even 10.0...

    But the "newbies" completely baffle me. To the best of my knowledge it is no longer possible to get a legal license for VB 6.0 from any channels.

    Granted there may be a dozen people in the world who legally bought VB6.0 10 years ago, have had it sitting on their shelf for a decade, have not upgraded their computer in that time, and have finally decided to learn programing. But I think 12 people would actually be on the high side...
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  4. #4
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED.....
    IF YOU ARE OFFENDED EASILY, PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS POST

    I really expressed myself, so no banning me.... please...........
    He asked me why, so I told

    Don't get me started on why vb6 is way better than the junked up garage collector with the easy to decompile hacked up piece of **** the .net is. I heard about people asking if their code got stolen and the answer is yes. vb6 is old, but so is c++ and they are both able to compile to native code, so get rid of p-code and stick with something that has proven time over time over time and still a darn good program language. I don't call vb.net the vb6 upgrade. It is nothing like its big brother . vb6 should have been vb6++ by now if you ask me. That is how good it is and was. That was my first program language and will be the happiest times of my life. You can take your .net framework and make a good project and send me the exe. I will then send your code back. Stupid p-code. You can think you are smart using the .net, but it does the coding for you. It is microsoft''s point, click, type and we will do the work for you No offense, but there was NO good option on the poll to respect vb6 at all. All you did was discriminant against vb6 users.

    Have you even tried vb6? It was a milestone. It was a good achievement. Also vb6 runs fine under vista and vista sucks too. Vista is colored blinds that is a hippie :S Blue with blue-ish green with some pink-ish red and whatever else that hippie thought to put in that gui theme. omfg. I used windowblinds and found better ones than microsoft produced for vista :'(

    Get rid of the .net and vista . You make me sad and also kinda sick.

  5. #5
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    No problem in expressing your self...

    A few points...

    1) I have been programming for well over 35 years. The first Basic I used was the original Dartmouth Basic back in 1973. I have also developed commercial applications in EVERY version of Visual Basic.

    2) There is no "p-code" in .NET. Before execution EVERYTHING is ALWAYS compiled to native code. Granted the last pert happens just before execution, but it does happen and only happens once (per execution of the processs)

    3) I have done many contracts reverse-engineering applications (always ethically!). With the correct experience and tools there is no more difficulty reverse engineering a VB 4,5,6 application than there is reverse engineering a .Net assembly. The exact same holds true for anything written in C++ (especially if you know which compiler was used).

    4) Managed code is no more (or less) "Point and Click" than any other environment with an IDE that supports designers. On the otherhand, you can create ANY .Net application with nothing more than the operating system and the .Net runtime installed on your machine. [And yes, I have had to do this....]

    5) VB 6 WAS a great product. I am not arguing that. But the downsides to using something thatis out of support is tremendous. In justunder 22 months, Microsoft "could" (although extremely doubtful they would) put out an update through automatic updates that would render EVERY (or ANY) program written using V6 (VB or C++), and it would NOT violate any terms or conditions. As a matter of corporate policy we stopped buying any product that was developed using V6 tools in 2004, our last existing one was removed from all systems in mid-2006.

    6) Talking about the Visual Aspect of Vista (positively or negatively) is really just hyperbole. One fact stands clear. At the last security convention, MAC OSX fell to an attack within the first hour. Linux (Unbutu and RedHat enterprise) fell on the first day. Vista did not fall until the fourth day (almost after 6 hours AFTER security features were disabled!).
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  6. #6
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Something just came back to bite me this week. Seems a Windows Update killed off Capicom/VB6 support. Bad data for a space password?

    Had to recompile to delete a statement, bypassing the setup security.

    If anyone has seen this recently, ping back!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    David

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  7. #7
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Joeman

    I agree with your two posts completely. I have nothing to add.
    Very good answers.
    Last edited by BytePtr; June 22nd, 2008 at 06:52 AM.
    Rate my post if i it was useful!

  8. #8
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    VBA – which is a VB6 copycat – is still MS-Office’s primary language and it seems to me this will go on for many years to come. At least in my area, I realized, there is big market potentials for programmers who can bring information to customers’ desk directly from their network servers using MS Office.

    A good command of VBA assures you a good slice of the market. A good command of VB6 is a good command of VBA.
    Marketing our skills - please participate in the survey and share your insights
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  9. #9
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    VBA is a scripting language, not a programming lang..

    VBA's runtime is office, and has evolved with office.

    There are many simularities between VBA and VB6, however thats where it ends.

    Even a good knowledge of VB.NET will assist in VBA ..

    Gremmy
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  10. #10
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Here is a funny hypothetical metaphor.
    You people started speaking in parbals so I did one too.
    Suppose I was 20,000 feet up and jumped out of a plane just to hit the ground. Does it matter what languaged I used?
    0100 0111 0110 1111 0110 0100 0010 0000 0110 1001 0111 0011 0010 0000 0110 0110 0110 1111 0111 0010
    0110 0101 0111 0110 0110 0101 0111 0010 0010 0001 0010 0001 0000 0000 0000 0000
    0000 0000 0000 0000

  11. #11
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Not unless it was *you* that were jumping.
    David

    CodeGuru Article: Bound Controls are Evil-VB6
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  12. #12
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Quote Originally Posted by Joeman
    Here is a funny hypothetical metaphor.
    You people started speaking in parbals so I did one too.
    Suppose I was 20,000 feet up and jumped out of a plane just to hit the ground. Does it matter what languaged I used?
    That depends on two primary factors:

    1) Are you jumping with someone (who intends to survive)
    2) Do you have any "Last Wishes".

    If both of the conditions above are met, then you should probably use a language the other person understands.....
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  13. #13
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Have to know the language you speak, to both, get you to stop, and also, contact your next-of-kin...
    David

    CodeGuru Article: Bound Controls are Evil-VB6
    2013 Samples: MS CODE Samples

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  14. #14
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    very funny answers, but really when you go "splat" was the last few words you spoke mean anything? Now if someone show this happen, now that would be a horrible incident. It would mean nothing to the person the went "splat". Isn't that obvious? lol. He can't recall the moment.

    Ok on the serious side.

    Interpretation for coders
    This is to if your code is used by people that are living and your dead. Does what they do with your code matter to you now that you can't think/process anything? If you answer is yes it does, try thinking/processing nothing which is just impossible. Even when you sleep, your brain is processing.

    My point is vb6 may seem old to you and isn't a wise ideal to use because it isn't supported and/or old, others may not even care about this. I don't because of 2 things:

    1. vb6 still runs fine
    2. it meets my needs just fine

    While I understand you're trying to covert msil to a non-standard encrypted version, that only masks the real problem and that is msil does exist. If you can protect it, perhaps it is good enough, but why won't .net simply compile with no jit strings attached and let the distributor decide if he wants to use msil so he won't be forced to use it. This is what vb5 and vb6 done from my understanding. This is what I want/need in the .net. For performance issues, I could make work arounds. If the workarouds can't be done, that is a different story.

    If you really want vb6 to fade away, you have to give people another language they find equivalent and the .net can be it if, and only if, these are met:

    1. It is the same speed or faster
    2. Compilable to native
    3. Able to turn off error checking for performance
    4. have 100% equivalent win32 apis built in the .net
    5. be a very well known language used for their needs.

    These are what is stopping vb6 users to go to the .net successfully in my opinion.

    If I had to program in the .net, I would find it rude and offensive to have to call out of my own development environment(.net framework) to do something I needed/wanted to accomplish if that language recommends to stay in the development environment.
    0100 0111 0110 1111 0110 0100 0010 0000 0110 1001 0111 0011 0010 0000 0110 0110 0110 1111 0111 0010
    0110 0101 0111 0110 0110 0101 0111 0010 0010 0001 0010 0001 0000 0000 0000 0000
    0000 0000 0000 0000

  15. #15
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    Re: Why VB 6.0??

    Quote Originally Posted by Joeman
    1. vb6 still runs fine
    2. it meets my needs just fine
    As I have said (to WizBbang) if it works for you, and you understand the support situation, then there is no problem. Where I have a problem is where people (including you as in the replies above) make statements without having any facts to back them up.

    and that (the problem) is msil does exist.
    I fail to see how that is a problem. A recent Gartner Group study indicated that the ration of MSIL to Native code in commercial programs is rapidly increasing. Without it, you simply can not do things like distribute a single version of your program and have it run as an x86, x86, or IA64 executable. Even within those families the JIT capability allows the program to use the optimal instructions automatically.

    If you were programming back in the 1980's you would remember all of the problems dealing with mathematical programs that had to run on DX (hardware floating point) and SX (software only floating point). It was a bloody nightmare deciding to pick one (limiting your audience with HW, or limiting your performance (always using SW) or using an "auto-detect" mechanism which ran slower on both platforms since the decision was made at every floating point operation.

    Having an intermediate language (FYI "IL" is an industry standard, "MSIL" is microsofts specific implementation of that standard), completely eliminates this as the generated executable code (by the JIT) would always be optimal for the platform is was running on.

    If you really want vb6 to fade away, you have to give people another language they find equivalent and the .net can be it if, and only if, these are met:

    1. It is the same speed or faster
    2. Compilable to native
    3. Able to turn off error checking for performance
    4. have 100% equivalent win32 apis built in the .net
    5. be a very well known language used for their needs.

    These are what is stopping vb6 users to go to the .net successfully in my opinion.
    In the following comments the terms "nobody" and "anybody" include everyone I have dealt with in the past 7 years, including some of the worlds best VB programmers (one who helped form the language), VB user groups), etc...

    1) Nobody has shown me a requirements document and a VB (4,5,6) implementation of that document that could not be implemented in .NET with equivilant performance.

    2) If performance is not an issue, and there are security mechanisms for those cases (which I still believe to be fairly rare) where the incremental ease in reverse engineering matter, then there is no problem.

    3) See #1. If the performance can be met WITH the safety checks (realize that over 80% of successful attacks are because of buffer overruns, stack faults, or other items that can not occur with the checks that .NEt provide), then this is a non-issue; unless you like to make your programs easier to infect...

    4) This means that programming on Mac, Linux, Mainframes are all "useless"...They dont have "100% equivalent win32 apis". So far I have not found a case where a direct call to Win32API has been a necessity in implementing a program, but if I ever do, then PInvoke provides 100% identical functionallity to VB6 "declare".

    If I had to program in the .net, I would find it rude and offensive to have to call out of my own development environment(.net framework) to do something I needed/wanted to accomplish if that language recommends to stay in the development environment.
    (emphasis added)
    You never have to use the supplied libraries. If you want/need a specialized implementation you can always write it. If you want/need to access something from a different environment, you can. Of course this is just adding work for the vast majority of cases where the provided (extensive) library provides all of the functionallity..
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