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Thread: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

  1. #31
    DataMiser is offline Super Moderator Power Poster
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by HanneSThEGreaT View Post
    I knew someone would respond

    Actually VB 4 was released in 1996
    VB 5 was released in 1997
    And VB 6 was released 1998.

    Right, now, what major alteringdifferences were there between those 3
    Did the whole ball - game change, did VB 6 revolutionise such as the .NET Framework No.
    Did they reinvent the wheel everytime with each of those 3 versions of VB No
    I'm not talking about improved features of the language / product. In any case, I could still do most things with VB 5 & 4 & 6.

    Now, look at .NET 1.1 ( actually any version prior to 3.0 ), then look at .NET 3.0 and higher

    Get what I mean
    I knew they could not have been to far apart and it is true that those 3 are not drastically different though VB4 seemed like a not quite ready for prime time player.

    I have actually not looked much into anything above version 2 as of yet. Most of my apps have been done in 2003 and 2005 due to the hardware I am developing for. e.g. CE.Net 4.x requires the use of 2003 where V5 requires 2005.

    Keep in mind though that VB4 5 and 6 where a major change from VB3 as was VB3 from previous verious of MS Basic like VBDos and Quick basic. Much of the syntax remained but the mindset was totally different and in the long run much better and faster to develop in.

    I see dot net the same way as the earlier versions of VB.

  2. #32
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by HanneSThEGreaT View Post
    Why can't the powers that be, just decide on a product, and stick to it - yes, the world must go forward - but to what lengths

    We'd all be stuck with Apple ]['s with cassette tape drives!
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  3. #33
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by dglienna View Post
    We'd all be stuck with Apple ]['s with cassette tape drives!
    Actually we would be stuck way before that...how about mechanical processing of punched cards...NO "electronics" at all.....
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  4. #34
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    If you are building small projects then .Net may be the answer. (Should be the answer)

    The real life example is this -

    A company embraces .Net with VS2003 and embarks on a re-engineering of its ERP system (the system currently is working well in VB6)

    Down the track VS2005 was released and the decision was made to embark on a re-engineering its VS2003 ERP system (again)

    Down the track VS2008 was released and the decision was made to embark on a re-engineering its VS2005 ERP system (again)

    It is now 5 years down the track and no beta is released

    At what cost ? Will it ever be finished ? Will they lose all their customers and even bankrupt ? (They are losing customers by the day)

    Should they have stayed with VS2003 and completed the project ?

    We all know NOW, in hindsight, that would have been stupid. (Wonderful thing, hindsight)

    With VS2010 on the horizon - do you start again ?

    This is no fun when you are dealing with 1000's of forms and reports

    But hey, this is progress, you say

    The point is, if you want to make a reasonable sized project, you need to draw a line in the sand and complete it

    The temptation though, for the sake of not being stuck with Apple 2 tapes, is to re-engineer everytime an improvement comes out

    Thats why I, like others, am still waiting for it to "settle down"

    It will never be complete - we all know that - but I'm not betting the farm on something which isn't quite there yet

    By the way - do you all carry 3 different IDE's to support your .Net projects, or did you take those small projects you made and re-engineer them to the lastest ?

    (I suspect most advocates of .Net have never created a large ERP system from scratch)

  5. #35
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    I have been the architect or lead developer on 7 .Net projects that each involved over 3-5 million lines of code (not counting "designer" generated code). These each had hundreds of forms/report (I have never in my 30+ year seen an application with >2000 reports/forms as you claim an ERP system would have).

    These system included distributed procesing over multiple servers as well as multiple client implementations (eg Desktop, Web, and Service). A number of them interfaced with IBM WebSphere, SAP, MSFT CRM, and multiple rea-time data feeds.

    With the exception of one application (which was started in 1.0 and released in 1.1) ALL of these went from concept to production release in under 24 months and were released in the same version (possible ad a different SP level, but that is a minor side effect) that they were originally architected for.

    The 1.x application have all been upgraded to (at least) 2.0, with the average effort being less than 3 months of development. The ones architected for 2.0 are currently being scheduled for 3.5 with the average development time estimated at 4-6 WEEKS. [Of course the QA cycles will run longer, but that is the case for any update of any program in any language, and has little or nothing to do with updating to the newest CLR.

    Preliminary tests on 3 [performed in the past month] of these applications indicate that there will be minimal issues bringing these up to 4.0

    Reviewing the case studies of other consulting firms and large corporations (often made available through the International Association of Software Architects), these results are the norm and not the exception.

    The documented cases that are anywhere close to what you describe, have usually been tracked to poor management and a lack of technical expertise. When the information is available, the company in question has suffered cost overruns and missed deadlines on multiple projects that have nothing to do with .NET.

    With the exception of the transition from "Managed C++" [1.x] to "C++/CLI" [2.0] (which is aljmost invariably a BAD choice for general ap-plication development in any case), the versions are highly backwards compatable.

    Just because 2.0 w/Extensions and 3.x support WCF does NOT mean that .asmx web services need to be (or even should be) redesigned. The same is true for Win Forms applications vs. WPF applications.

    If a company "chases" technology; they will fail. This has been proven over and over going back (At least) to the mid 1960's. It is the EXACT same as the "feature creep" issue that has caused so many problems with software engineering regardless of technology or changes in technology.

    Granted this is only based on my experience, and that of about 200 professional developers that I am in touch with and the experiences of multiple Fortune 500 and Fortune 100 companies.
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  6. #36
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    And to all the advocates of .Net (because you have to jump on to new technolgy)

    I presume you all camped all night outside the Microsoft Store to get the first release of VISTA (because this is the true platform for .Net development)

    Whoopee !!!

    (Again, HINDSIGHT tells us you would have been stupid)

    Now I know you are all smarter than that ....

    So, how long did you wait before you rolled out Vista to your 50 users ?

    My guess is that you are still waiting - right ?.

    C'mon guys - get with it - shouldn't you do the right thing for Microsoft

    You see - you are all just blinkered programmers - you don't pay the bills

    Implement Vista and .Net and not only do you have a new system to contend with, but you also need to upgrade ALL your hardware along the way (but why should you care - you just write super dooper .Net software)

    So your fancy .Net project will only work so long as the user upgrades or replaces his 50 computers (and his server) - HUH ?

    Oh, perhaps there is still a small place in this world for fast, slick, responsive, VB6

    I would suspect in the current economic climate, companies will not be rushing out to replace their 300 computers, just because its a good idea to go to Vista and .Net

    Perhaps all you .Net gurus may even have to lower yourselves and go back to coding VB6, just so you can put bread on the table

  7. #37
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    The documented cases that are anywhere close to what you describe, have usually been tracked to poor management and a lack of technical expertise
    100 % Correct

    Thats exactly the point -

    How do you manage something you dont understand ? (Because it keeps changing)
    We definitely lack of technical expertise (Because it keeps changing)

    Do you need to go back to university (who have just discovered .Net 1.1) to learn about all the new stuff as it comes on board ?

    Or, as we all do, just stumble in the dark and HOPE that the BASIC samples provided by Microsoft will be robust and stand up to real environments ?

    (Microsoft HOPED Vista would be a world beater !)

    Thank GOD for CodeGuru and the Internet !

    Imagine trying to battle with .Net if there was no input from your peers other than hard back books and Magazine editorials (We would all still be back at VS2003 !)

    I really do appreciate the contributions made on this subject as we all, together, solve daily problems, and I certainly learn much from every single comment.

  8. #38
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by George1111 View Post
    Now I know you are all smarter than that ....

    So, how long did you wait before you rolled out Vista to your 50 users ?

    My guess is that you are still waiting - right ?.
    Actually my first significant roll out of Vista (500+ desktops/laptops for a major publishing firm) was in May 2007 (after a 3 month trial on 25machines)

    Since then I have done rollouts at 4 companies with machine counts of over 100. All with NO significant issues.

    Additionally I have deployed into production Windows Server 2008 at 2 companies since July this year..Including major server consolidation using Hyper-V.

    How do you manage something you dont understand ? (Because it keeps changing)
    We definitely lack of technical expertise (Because it keeps changing)

    Do you need to go back to university (who have just discovered .Net 1.1) to learn about all the new stuff as it comes on board ?
    Universities are not and never have been the approriate place to learn current technologies. The inertia simply causes too much lag [as evidenced by your quote]

    What you DO do, is register for Beta programs, TAP programs and other "early adopter" opportunities.

    You INVEST the time (and by extension money) to be "up to speed" on the various "Release Candidates", so that when the next generation is released, you only have to pick up the differences that are (invariably) in the released product.

    As an example, my firm is already commited to having our material updated to reflect VS-2010 features by the end of this year. This will allow our clients to make reasonably informed decisions of how to develop their current requirements using VS-2008 in the most effective manner.

    Those who read my posts here on CG (and/or other places) are aware that I spend 15-25 hours PER WEEK just keeping up with emerging technology and evaluating which items my teams should invest their time in.

    This has been true for many years before .NET was even a concept, and I believe will still be true once .NET is a long gone technology [assuming I live that long ]
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  9. #39
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    George is correct. The universities colleges etc. are a bit behind, why ¿
    Because they have to restart the syllabus the whole time, because something else is the new standard. It is ridiculous. I work at a college. Now, the major problem mostly is books, and with every new release, the books obviously becomes more expensive, as well as the MS exams.

    CPU: I have also done a lot of projects, with thousands of lines of code. I will not change something that works, I'll just improve it by adding new features to it. I will not move something which has worked flawlessly in .NET 1.1 to .NET 3.5 - that is plain stupidity, IMHO.

    dglienna: That may be the case, but it still would have worked, wouldn't it ¿

    Yes, I do know all the frameworks, that is besides the point, the argument here is why should we be forced to shift to something else, why is there such a rush ¿

    As I said, we can discuss this the whole day, it still won't change my opinion
    This is all I'm prepared to say about this topic

  10. #40
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by BadNews01 View Post
    I posted a thread awhile ago about me using vb6 and explained I was new to programming. Someone told me that if I was new I should just jump to vb.net.
    --SNIP--
    I was wondering if someone could please post a comparison code for me to kind of get a feel for vb.net. What I mean is make a code that does something in vb.net and then show me the code that it takes to get that same thing done in vb6.
    Well i think i may just have what your looking for... Have a look at The VB6 vs VB.NET Code War thread, It's not that much, but it is comparison code, and we compare running times..
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  11. #41
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    One thing puzzles me ..

    Why are all you .Net gurus posting in the VB6 forum ?

    You don't just happen to still be secretly using VB6, are you ?

    Now why would that be ?

  12. #42
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    I'm not a guru in either
    Just like posting if I think I can help

  13. #43
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by HanneSThEGreaT View Post
    CPU: I have also done a lot of projects, with thousands of lines of code. I will not change something that works, I'll just improve it by adding new features to it. I will not move something which has worked flawlessly in .NET 1.1 to .NET 3.5 - that is plain stupidity, IMHO.
    Much depends on exactly what you mean by this post. Assuming we are talking VB.Net or C# (in other words not "Managed C++" or C++/CLI"....

    Of the projects you have done in 1.1, how many have you attempted to re-compile in 2.0??

    NOT making changes to support new functionallity, just re-building so that they are running under the new version of the framework.

    Remember .NEt 1.1 is now (as of 10/14/2008) no longer supported. This means that is your application "mis-behaves" on a customers machine you have no one to turn to for "real" help.

    If you (or anyone else with a similar situation) has NOT tried compiling under 2.0 (or later), I really wonder WHY?

    If you have tried it and NOT found any problems, then I REALLY wonder WHY one would still be deploying 1.1 application.

    Perhaps more importantly, if you have tried 2.0, and found non-trivial, non-perscriptive problems, I would personally like to hear about it, and welcome PM's and e-MAils on the subject.

    The same goes for 2.0 to 3.5, but the timing (IMHO) is a bit more relaxed as there is still about 28 months left to the support. (But why wait till the last minute when 3.0 has already been available for nearly 2 years [1/23/2007]
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  14. #44
    DataMiser is offline Super Moderator Power Poster
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Remember .NEt 1.1 is now (as of 10/14/2008) no longer supported. This means that is your application "mis-behaves" on a customers machine you have no one to turn to for "real" help.

    If you (or anyone else with a similar situation) has NOT tried compiling under 2.0 (or later), I really wonder WHY?

    If you have tried it and NOT found any problems, then I REALLY wonder WHY one would still be deploying 1.1 application.
    The fact that it is no longer supported by MS is not an issue to me. In all my years of developing software I have had the need to contact MS support on one occasion and they were not able to help with the problem anyway.

    Yes I have rebuilt apps that were built to use 1.1 using 2.0. I received a few warning messages to change some code but it worked fairly well.

    I also still build apps from time to time with 1.1 and have several that are deployed in 1.1 and will continue to be. The major reason is that 2.0 will not work in some of these cases and 1.1 does. Of course I am talkign smart devices here running CE.Net 4.x and many of the ones that I have rebuilt was because the device was replaced with a Ce.Net v5.0 device.

  15. #45
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    The fact that it is no longer supported by MS is not an issue to me. In all my years of developing software I have had the need to contact MS support on one occasion and they were not able to help with the problem anyway.

    Yes I have rebuilt apps that were built to use 1.1 using 2.0. I received a few warning messages to change some code but it worked fairly well.

    I also still build apps from time to time with 1.1 and have several that are deployed in 1.1 and will continue to be. The major reason is that 2.0 will not work in some of these cases and 1.1 does. Of course I am talkign smart devices here running CE.Net 4.x and many of the ones that I have rebuilt was because the device was replaced with a Ce.Net v5.0 device.
    Compact (and Embedded) Framework has a different set of issues (which I should have been explicit on). Here matching the OS and Framework is very important.

    My experience has been frequent contact with the Dev groups (as well as suppport via MCS and Premier) averaging a couple of times per year over the past two decades. "Success" rates have been upwards of 90%....

    Given that you are still "shipping" 1.1 based apps, I wondeer what the impact would be if next months "Windows Update" pushed out something that broke all of your applications. They would perfectly within their rights to do so. There already have been situations where "previously working" code in VB6 has been broken by published updates.

    For any vendor, there must be an end of support (imagine if Windows 2.0 still had to be supported).
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