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Thread: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

  1. #61
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Hmmm.. All Ok. But arn't we all together a bit far away from the origibal theme .
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  2. #62
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Hi BadNews01

    I was wondering what your programming experience is..

    Its all very well to tell you what to do, but it is relevant to know "what do you know about programming ?"

    If you have limited knowedge and experience, how do you hope to re-engineer an application ?

    eg, Because you can speak English, it doesn't mean you can write a novel.

    Because you may understand the basics of a programming language, be it VB6, VB.Net, C# or whatever, it doesn't mean you will successfully build a major application.

    The fact that you are asking what language is best to use suggests you haven't reached the beginning of your programming career yet.

    Are you planning to go to "programming school" of some kind or were you hoping to muddle your way through a language like VB.Net which everyone seems to be pushing you towards.

    Let me tell you, you dont "muddle your way" through .Net languages - VB6 perhaps, but certainly NOT .Net languages.

    If your management have a mind to re-engineer an application, then I suggest they employ someone with a few years .Net experience. Then you get your boss to get the person to teach you and become your mentor - only this way will you

    1) Learn about programming
    2) Learn about system design
    3 )Learn about a language like VB.Net (or C#)

    You ain't going to do it alone - and while we at CodeGuru love to help with projects, we normally don't undertake major re-engineering work

    Best of luck

  3. #63
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    One important note, is that just because m$ wants VB programmers to abandon VB6, doesn't mean .net is all that's left. There are currently a bunch of VB-like ones out there, with plenty of support that isn't expected to dry up any time soon. Some of these have been designed to easily import VB project files too. Some can create standalone and/or cross-platform applications. Some are even free and/or open source.

    Here are just a few:
    RealBasic
    LibertyBasic
    KBasic
    Just Basic
    CoolBasic

    There's also Delphi, which has been around for quite some time.
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  4. #64
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    I've tried at least one of those in the past, and found it too hard to work with. It wouldn't run my vb6 apps without major modifications, and then wouldn't be cross-platform without more work. I'll work with MONO if I need to port to other OS's. At least it's compatible with most Net apps, from what I've heard.
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  5. #65
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by George1111 View Post
    I new that Gremlin

    Could I go so far as to say you still have a soft spot for "your old love" (VB6)

    Thanks for hanging around the forum - your contributions are most helpful !
    TBH.. Yes I do still have a soft spot for VB6. I haven't done much in it for almost a year now, but i still use a few app's i wrote in VB6, and have not even thought about 'Updating' them to .NET... (mostly the Hex editor listed in my sig) ..

    However with the current project i'm busy with i've learn't so much about .NET that i think i could rewrite the Hex editor to be much better that the VB6 one, with half the code..

    Back on topic.. The best way i've found to learn a new language is to jump in and start coding, using everything you have to get info on syntax.. (CG, MSDN) ..

    But... start small ... simple "Hello world" apps can teach you allot...

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  6. #66
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by HanneSThEGreaT View Post
    Book stores don't see it like this. Software vendors don't see it like this. All they see, is money. The majority of people ( including me don't see it like this ) - they just see, another framework, another new standard, another eon of studying with the hope of eventually getting somewhere.
    We can "talk" like this the whole day, the whole week, the whole, it still won't change my mind
    I second that!
    You would figure that such a presice thing as programming computers over decades, would be less than haphazard.
    I'd have to agree that short term monetary gains only fuel the fire.

    I think another thing is important here.
    Just because the field has had patterns since the 60/70'(space program), doesn't always mean the patterns will continue to unfold in the exact same way. We could reach a point of saturation(i think we already have), where no one person can be a master, let alone keep up with the newest fad. Jack of all trades, but master of none. Spread as thin as butter.

  7. #67
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by TT(n) View Post
    I second that!
    You would figure that such a presice thing as programming computers over decades, would be less than haphazard.
    I dont see it as haphazard at all. Changes in hardware capabilities completely change the focus of software development. Changes in economy and business goals also change this.

    Consider society in the 1700's. The "best" travel speed was about 10 miles per hour, with a range of about 100 miles in a day. Now consider modrn times where 500 miles per hour is practical and you can easily go 10,000 miles in a day.

    This is only a factor of 100. A cheap modern computer is 6,000 times fastr than machines of only 30 years ago.

    This is 100 times the rate of change in technology as the rate of change in travel. If you had proposed some of the common situations in todays world in the 1700's, you would probably have been confined to an asylum....

    I'd have to agree that short term monetary gains only fuel the fire.
    Very rarely is montary gain by the originators of change the primary goal. The total savings is the driving forc.
    I think another thing is important here.
    Just because the field has had patterns since the 60/70'(space program), doesn't always mean the patterns will continue to unfold in the exact same way.
    Not sure about your intent here...."Design Patterns" did not exist back then (I started programming in 1972) for software development. Even in digital electronics they were extremely rare. When describing something it was usually done by a long detailed explanation specific to that task, or by a reference to a previous project. If an engineer (software or hardware) from another company was brought in, the "learning curve" to become knowledgeable was much higher than it is today.

    I well remember writing "books" of documentation, where today I could convey the same information in a few sentances.

    We could reach a point of saturation(i think we already have), where no one person can be a master, let alone keep up with the newest fad. Jack of all trades, but master of none. Spread as thin as butter.
    That is definately true. As I frequently state, it requires 15-20 hours of my week (over and above "normal" work) just to stay current. In some cases "current" simply means: I know something exists, I know the intendd purpose, I know where to find more information, and (ideally) I know someone who really undersands it.
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  8. #68
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by GremlinSA View Post
    The best way i've found to learn a new language is to jump in and start coding, using everything you have to get info on syntax.. (CG, MSDN) ..

    But... start small ... simple "Hello world" apps can teach you allot...
    I absolutely agree. Early on, I would start a project just for fun, knowing I'd inevitably learn some things along the way. It was always worth it, even if it never got finished. Usually those projects were simple games, like Tic-Tac-Toe or something like that.
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  9. #69
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by WizBang View Post
    I absolutely agree. Early on, I would start a project just for fun, knowing I'd inevitably learn some things along the way. It was always worth it, even if it never got finished. Usually those projects were simple games, like Tic-Tac-Toe or something like that.
    But this "ad-hoc" approach has risks. When interviewing "entry-level" candidates I can (with about 80% accuracy) determine if they learned the language from an organized course of study (book-carefully followed or classroom) or via experimentation alone.

    It is very easy to write an "incorrect" or "wrong" program that does product the expected results. The approach once learned, can be very difficult to correct - often bacuse the person does not even realize that their approach is flawed.
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  10. #70
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard View Post
    But this "ad-hoc" approach has risks. When interviewing "entry-level" candidates I can (with about 80% accuracy) determine if they learned the language from an organized course of study (book-carefully followed or classroom) or via experimentation alone.

    It is very easy to write an "incorrect" or "wrong" program that does product the expected results. The approach once learned, can be very difficult to correct - often bacuse the person does not even realize that their approach is flawed.
    On the other hand, books and classrooms have a tendency toward a sort of cookie-cutter effect - the student only learns what was taught, the way the teacher taught it. I believe that those with aptitude for a given thing will at some point diverge from the norm, and that's when they truly excel. Nobody ever breaks new ground when following textbook examples. Coloring within the lines tends to produce a predictable picture.

    Sure, there are programming practices which most of us would probably agree are "wrong". But I'd say there are far more which boil down to better or worse, rather than incorrect.

    As we all know, thinking outside the box has its rewards. That's basically how new things happen. How new technology comes about. Someone has to ask "what if".

    It seems similar to the problem of creating AI. That is, how to get the computer to "think new thoughts", when all it knows is what was programmed into it.
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  11. #71
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    EDIT: Just realized which forum this is in, so much of the post does not apply here at the detailed level (ie the use of STL), however the general points remain valid - so I have chosen not to delete it...
    Quote Originally Posted by WizBang View Post
    I believe that those with aptitude for a given thing will at some point diverge from the norm, and that's when they truly excel.
    The very RARE ones will excell, the majority wo "diverge" will not make it past an employement interview.

    Consider a tic-tac-toe game (with "auto-play" can be written in the minimum amount of (executable) CODE with a simple "char [19683]", 1 loop, and 1 conditional.

    But is this the version you would submit on an exam or interview to show your knowledge of programming??

    I have interviewed about 500 people in the last 10 years for C++ positions (it is one of the services my company offers to clients). These positions range from entry-level (<2 yrs experience) to senior (7+ years). The top "disqualifying" items.

    1) Usage of a VC++ 6.0 non-compliant construct (or any "obsolete" approach)
    2) Usage of char[], and char * instead of std::string
    3) Usage of raw arrays instead of STL container
    4) Usage of custom code rather than STL algorithm
    5) Failure to utilize accepted Design Patterns (especially, Singeton, Observer, Visitor, Factory, Builder and Command)

    #1 will stop an interview COLD.

    #2-#3 are likely to immediately eliminate a candidate from consideration at any level

    #4-#5 may be tolerated for an entry-level position.
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  12. #72
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    @TheCPUWizard:
    I wouldn't expect otherwise from you, since you emphasized books and classrooms. You hire as you see fit.

    I never planned on working for someone else anyway, so I guess my stance is to be expected also

    In some ways, this could help bring us back to the topic at hand. The language you choose may very well depend on how you plan to market your skills. If you plan to work for someone else, and/or with a team of people, writing apps for internal/corporate use, then .net might be more suitable. If your aim is writing apps to sell to home users, then, of the two languages in this discussion, I'd say VB6 is the more suitable one.

    And that brings up yet another difference between VB6 and .net - decompiling. As of this moment, I've yet to see any proof that a .net app is as secure as that written in VB6. Google continues to turn up ways to decompile a .net app right back to usable source code. But that's a huge topic of discussion, which was left open in this thread.
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  13. #73
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by WizBang View Post
    @TheCPUWizard:
    I wouldn't expect otherwise from you, since you emphasized books and classrooms.
    AS A STARTING POINT..I also post regularly how a 4 year college degree (in the USA) is unlikely to get you a job upon graduation
    You hire as you see fit.
    It is not about who I hire. It is about how major financial institutions, industrial firms, and MAJOR software companies hire.

    I never planned on working for someone else anyway, so I guess my stance is to be expected also

    In some ways, this could help bring us back to the topic at hand. The language you choose may very well depend on how you plan to market your skills.
    Very true, but with some key points:

    1) I have worked for myself for the past 25 years [excepting for a 2 year break]. But to grow a company, the individual (except in extremely rare circumastance) must grow into a team, then into groups of teams, then....

    2) MANY companies will not buy software products that do not conform to standards. (Approx 1/3 of my income over the past 3 years has been in helping client companies REMOVE software from their environment that is non-conformant. This has included the removal of any out of support technology, as well as any staff members who were not competent in the new technologies)
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  14. #74
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Programming practices are not necessarily related to what an app does, or how it may appear to the user. But it is true that an app shouldn't interact with the file system or something in an inappropriate way.

    I'm sure this is what you're referring to, and not whether the programmer used For...Next or Do...Loop.

    So these are two separate issue - compliance with a system and its standards, and conformity with expected coding practices.
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  15. #75
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    Re: VB6 to VB.NET Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by WizBang View Post
    Programming practices are not necessarily related to what an app does, or how it may appear to the user. But it is true that an app shouldn't interact with the file system or something in an inappropriate way.

    I'm sure this is what you're referring to, and not whether the programmer used For...Next or Do...Loop.

    So these are two separate issue - compliance with a system and its standards, and conformity with expected coding practices.
    Separate, but related...What I was referring to would include:

    1) Giving a class specification to 3 different developers/teams and getting back drop in replacements that could be used interchangably.

    2) Being able to "shuffle" the three implementations among the teams and they code maintain/update one that was written by another team as easily as their own (at a statistical level say within 5%)

    3) Being UNABLE to identify which developer wrote the code simply by looking at the code [Looking as Source Control Checking or Comments is cheating]

    4) Being able to hire a person, and have them be immediately able to sit down and understand the functioning of the code, without them having to spend time figuring out (deciphering) implementation details. [Learning the business requirements is another

    5) [regarding obsolete items] Not having to support more environments than required. If I can meet all of my needs using 1 or 2 "environments", then the cost savings over having to maintain 6 or 7 can be extremely significant (for example having to manage via SMS updates for 3 different versions of the runtime costs more than dealing with just one. So If I can keep all of my code based on 2.0 of .NET then I save money by not having to process 1.x or 3.x updates with the attendant testing and support. At some point it becomes efficient to move ALL my 2.0 code to 3.5. Of course there will be a "bubble" where I have to support 2.0 and 3.5, but hopefully that is measured in weeks or months, not fiscal quarters or years.
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