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  1. #76

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard View Post
    I do have over 35 years of experience, including a quarter of a century running a consulting firm that guides Fortune 500 companies in the adoption and use of technology. I also provide to these clients recommendations on hiring and training.

    Given the information posted on this thread, along with other threads by both parties; I would have to agree with your assesment. I would go one step further and predict that you would be accepted as a candidate for a position in more companies.

    -- Just my observation. Posted publically since ZOverLord has continued to keep private messaging disabled; and I did not want to "talk behind" ANYONE's back.
    Attitude and respect for others, is everything in this business, I have 4 more years total experience and 5 more years of running consulting companies, that does NOT make me God.

    There are polite ways to post messages in threads. When you create a post directed toward me, sadly, you can't seem to remember that.

    Others might need to see your other posts to me, in other threads, to know that I am NOT being over-sensitive about this.

    This is FAR from professional, on ANY level. But, you can't see that I guess:

    http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showpo...3&postcount=72

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    Personally, while you may have 39 years of programming experience, you appear to have very little understanding of design patterns as shown by my third point above. I can only claim 4 years of 'real world' programming experience in three languages, though I think it'd be safe to say I appear to have a better grasp of design patterns and they're cross language use than you. Is that a fair statement?
    I do have over 35 years of experience, including a quarter of a century running a consulting firm that guides Fortune 500 companies in the adoption and use of technology. I also provide to these clients recommendations on hiring and training.

    Given the information posted on this thread, along with other threads by both parties; I would have to agree with your assesment. I would go one step further and predict that you would be accepted as a candidate for a position in more companies.

    -- Just my observation. Posted publically since ZOverLord has continued to keep private messaging disabled; and I did not want to "talk behind" ANYONE's back.
    Last edited by ZOverLord; January 6th, 2009 at 03:23 AM.

  2. #77

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    That's because WPF follows some best practices in its design - it heavily uses the MVC pattern, which means it heavily uses the Observer pattern as they are interlinked
    Anyway, give it up, because I am looking for the "Exact" words you made a claim with, so. Your "Spin" on this makes NO common sense.

    I have gotten to the point, that it is "In My Best Interest" to let both you and TheCPUWizard "Dig your own grave", as I have again, this time before I do some serious "corrections" to your Miss Information campaigns and it is a better method for me, I get to quote the best parts of these attempted Miss Information campaigns, before they corrupt others

    Interestingly, one of you never comes "Thread Trashing" without the other one ("See Other Threads where I have been followed by the tag team in question, lol").

    So...Anyway, I really am not going to listen to your lectures anymore. They never can be supported with anything more than your own words.

    The facts stand, that there is NO "Best Practice" for this, your words don't change that fact, your "Supplied Link" also contains no words that refute that and I provided supporting statements, from a respected source that says "Exactly" that there is NO "Best Practice" for this.

    You want to "refute" that, write an article for MSDN, tell them, not me.

    Personally, I can't respect you as a reference anymore, your EGO has blinded you to fact.

    You also make statements that NEVER can be backed up "Using your Own words" without at some point when being called on that fact saying something like "what they mean is".

    If you make a claim that something is a "Best Practice" you should easily be able to find reference supporting that claim ("Cough...On the Internet, not in some book or movie") by a respected source as good as an MSDN source.

    If you can't find a link anywhere on the Internet that says ("Exactly") what you said is a "Best Practice" by some source of this caliber, and when you supply a link and you need to say when those words are missing and you need to say.....

    "That's because...which means...they are interlinked" I am NOT looking for your "translation" of what a link is saying, I am looking for a link that makes the same claim, using the "Exact words" you are using, in your claims, without the need for you to "translate" words from that link into "That's because...which means...they are interlinked"

    Here is a link to the "Patterns and Practices" of Microsoft Products FULL catalog, there is NO reference there ("Anywhere") it goes back to 2001, making any statement that the "Observer Pattern" is a "Best Practice".

    At this point, it would NOT surprise me that you might claim, that means NOTHING, because Microsoft should NOT have a "Patterns and Practices" web site area since as you claim "Design patterns are language agnostic.".

    While It MAY seem like I always have a need to deal with facts with you, it is only because you CONSTANTLY ("See Past Threads") have a need to "insult" me, as well as TRY and tell me that my facts are always wrong, and you NEVER have references that back up your claims.

    So here is the complete and entire catalog of Microsoft Patterns and Practices from 2001 - 2009, I quote:

    Microsoft’s proven recommendations for how to design, develop, deploy, and operate architecturally sound applications for the Microsoft platform.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/practices/bb190351.aspx
    Last edited by ZOverLord; January 6th, 2009 at 02:31 AM.

  3. #78

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    No.

    Design patterns are language agnostic. A java book is just as relevant as a C# book, which is just as relevant as a C++ book. The patterns do not change.
    News Flash:

    NOT TRUE. So, lets stick with the facts, NOT your Miss Information and Conjecture:

    This IS the "Patterns and Practices" web site area for Microsoft "Patterns and Practices":

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/practices/default.aspx

    Please remember, if you want to lecture me, on FACT, that I do have 39 years of programming in many many languages, and many many platforms, and I am NOT God, but I am very good at what I do

    In most cases trying to PUNK me out, with insults and statements with NO foundation won't work. You seem to try very hard, and I am not sure why but it has become humorus and sad at the same time.

    It's has been fun at times actually, because people that read this thread will learn something, like what are the "Practices and Patterns" that Microsoft suggests and that your statement of:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    No.

    Design patterns are language agnostic. A java book is just as relevant as a C# book, which is just as relevant as a C++ book. The patterns do not change.
    Is sadly, very incorrect.

    Because there are methods on a platform or in a language that are not supported in another platform or language.

    Once you get a few more platforms and languages under your belt you will understand that better.

    So, patterns and practices do vary by platform and language.

    What amazed me ("This Time") was that TheCPUWizard actually gave you a Thumbs-Up on this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard View Post
    Which means, that TheCPUWizard also should visit the "Patterns and Practices" area of Microsoft ("You know The one that Microsoft should have no need to have, because, after all "Design patterns are language agnostic.") and actually see what the suggested "Patterns and Practices" from Microsoft Really are.

    I would have thought that such a seasoned person, like TheCPUWizard would have known better to think that "Design patterns are language agnostic."
    Last edited by ZOverLord; January 6th, 2009 at 03:27 AM.

  4. #79

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjay View Post
    It's nice to pop in here every once in a while to see how this thread is progressing.

    To me, the future is WPF with its data binding features it just lends itself to a decoupled design patterns type of approach.
    I agree, WPF ROCKS!

    Here is a Patterns & Practices guide from the Front Page of the Microsoft Patterns & Practices Area ("I Now Call It Microsoft Area 51 because "Design patterns are language agnostic."....Shhhh):

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/practices/default.aspx it's located under "Download p&p" below is a direct link as well.

    Composite Application Guidance for WPF-June 2008

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
    Last edited by ZOverLord; January 5th, 2009 at 11:52 PM.

  5. #80

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    What's sad is that ALL of us who have posted here in this thread, were on the same page before you BOTH started, had you read the posts in this thread you would have seen that we had already admitted, there was no "best" method, and that all of these methods are good methods.

    It shows, clearly, that both of you never took the time to even read some of the older posts in this thread, TheCPUWizard has many references to definitions of "best practices"

    We ALL were way past that, but since you both never took the time to "READ" you never saw that. It would SEEM the goal was to "lecture" me, "teach" me right from wrong.

    As usual, you both seem not capable to stop doing that.

    So, Mutant_Fruit, you leave me no choice but to also not answer your posts as well, in threads, I don't want to see anymore good threads trashed by both of you, that I am in, so make your statements, contribute, but PLEASE stop trying to "lecture" and "teach" me or make posts specifically to me, because I will NO longer answer your posts in any thread, and if I felt I COULD trust you both from sending me PM's, I would allow PM's, just not from you.

    Again, I think others may think I am being over-sensitive about this, but if you looked at my posting history and saw the threads that these two have posted posts in to me, I think most people in the community would agree I was making the right decision in this case. I do hope that both of you don't do this to others here, because I think if you do, it harms this community.

    Even in this thread you can see where people may have thought I meant this or that, we seem to have been able to politely resolve any issues, without the need to lower ourselves to insulting eachother, the same cannot be said for both of you toward me, even in this thread, not to mention the others, you both seem to always have a need to insult my experience in some way. I am sure I could look at both your posting history and see similar condescending posts toward others as well.

    This thread was 4 pages long before you both became involved in it, and not one single person had a need to question or insult the other persons abilities or level of expertise, we supported our methods of choice, but never had ANY need to make statements on what the other persons experience level was or was not, who knew more and who did not.

    Maybe you both could learn from that?

    Because this seems to keep being done by both of you, in any thread we have meet in, and yet nobody else in this community has that need, that I have been in without both of you. Why is that?

    Only you both have that answer.

    So, because you both can't control yourself, without the need to insult someones experience, I have lost respect for you BOTH and have no desire or need to answer any of your future posts until I can see that you are capable to respect others.

    I care little of how many years experience you have or don't have, if you can't treat people, with respect, I would NEVER hire you for any of my projects, ever! You both are not capable to discuss an issue without the need/requirement to insult. I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    Personally, while you may have 39 years of programming experience, you appear to have very little understanding of design patterns as shown by my third point above. I can only claim 4 years of 'real world' programming experience in three languages, though I think it'd be safe to say I appear to have a better grasp of design patterns and they're cross language use than you. Is that a fair statement?
    I do have over 35 years of experience, including a quarter of a century running a consulting firm that guides Fortune 500 companies in the adoption and use of technology. I also provide to these clients recommendations on hiring and training.

    Given the information posted on this thread, along with other threads by both parties; I would have to agree with your assesment. I would go one step further and predict that you would be accepted as a candidate for a position in more companies.

    -- Just my observation. Posted publically since ZOverLord has continued to keep private messaging disabled; and I did not want to "talk behind" ANYONE's back.
    The post above and this link to it, speaks for itself: http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showpo...3&postcount=72 of the insulting nature you both are not capable to control toward me. So no need to wonder why I am no longer responding to any post in this community by both of you.

    Personally, I would NOT want any client past or future I had to see any post by me, like the above by you both.

    But...that's me What's important also to note, that this "Type" of post in this community by both of you, in other threads, has been done, by BOTH of you, MANY other times, sad really, very childish, completely unprofessional, and uncalled for.

    All the experience in the world, can't FIX that! Nothing "Justifies" it as well. Like this statement of:

    "Personally, while you may have 39 years of programming experience, you appear to have very little understanding of design patterns as shown by my third point above. I can only claim 4 years of 'real world' programming experience in three languages, though I think it'd be safe to say I appear to have a better grasp of design patterns and they're cross language use than you. Is that a fair statement?"
    ("See the Quoted Message Above.")

    Or this statement, in reply to the above statement.

    "Given the information posted on this thread, along with other threads by both parties; I would have to agree with your assesment. I would go one step further and predict that you would be accepted as a candidate for a position in more companies.

    Just my observation. Posted publically since ZOverLord has continued to keep private messaging disabled; and I did not want to "talk behind" ANYONE's back."

    ("See the Quoted Message Above.")

    If I was a moderator here ("And I am not") I would teach you both some manners, inform you to repect ALL others in the community, and if you could not learn to discuss without the continued need to insult, I would ask you to leave the community, because your inability to control your insulting behaviors, far exceeds any possible benefits your "expertise" could possibly contribute to this communtiy. IMHO.

    I hope CodeGuru saves this history for a very long time, so that future clients can ALSO see how you treat/discuss others, you can't see that on a resume.

    My clients know that I would NEVER treat anyone like you both have treated me here in this thread, in other threads, in this community, under ANY circumstances and that's all that counts, for me.

    Having more years and technical experience than you both means nothing. If I was up against you for a contract with the same client, I would win by my people skills, not by my extra experience.

    The days of "I am soooo smart but have no people skills so they must want me, are long gone as well". EGO maniacs even with more experience over other candidates make poor team-players and most companies have figured that out by now they will take people with less experience hands-down over people who have little or no people skills.

    Good luck to both of you, since I will NOT be answering any of your future posts
    Last edited by ZOverLord; January 6th, 2009 at 03:14 AM.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,546

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    So you don't want to discuss MVC and the Observer pattern and how it relates to this thread? Fair enough. Thread over.

    I glanced through your posts and nothing seems to deal with the topic that I haven't already covered to the best of my ability. You don't appear to have any specific problem with anything I've said that I haven't already backed up, so I can only assume that you agree with what I've stated.

    I'm glad we can agree like this, it makes for such a better thread

    EDIT: There is one point which I have already dealt with, but you keep raising anyway. You claim that design patterns are not language agnostic, yet I have already given examples where the MVC design pattern has been used in large
    1) C projects (GTK+)
    2) C++ projects (MFC and QT)
    3) Objective-C (Cocoa)
    4) Java (Swing)
    5) .NET (WPF, System.Windows.Forms) [Note this includes languages such as C#, Iron Python, Iron Ruby, Nemerle, Boo, VB.NET and even Java)
    6) TK (TCL) and many others.

    So yes, they are langauge agnostic. I really can't understand why you claim they're not. It's perfectly obvious they are. For a man (or woman?) with 39 years of programming experience over a wide variety of programming languages, I really can't understand why would you claim such a stupid thing. I also can't understand that after 39 years you aren't actively supporting the use of a design pattern, especially one so common and useful as this.
    Last edited by Mutant_Fruit; January 6th, 2009 at 04:17 AM.
    www.monotorrent.com For all your .NET bittorrent needs

    NOTE: My code snippets are just snippets. They demonstrate an idea which can be adapted by you to solve your problem. They are not 100% complete and fully functional solutions equipped with error handling.

  7. #82

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    For others who may not know what MVC is and does.

    MVC stands for model-view-controller. While Microsoft is adding MVC to ASP.NET as a composition as a release and has been for many years, .NET nor ASP.NET is NOT based on MVC design patterns, in fact MVC is an "Add-On" Framework to ASP.NET.

    I quote:

    "ASP.NET MVC Framework

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The ASP.NET MVC Framework is a Model-view-controller framework which Microsoft is adding to ASP.NET. It allows software developers to build a Web application as a composition of three roles: Model, View and Controller. A Model represents the state of a particular aspect of the application. Frequently, a model maps to a database table with the entries in the table representing the state of the table. A Controller handles interactions and updates the model to reflect a change in state of the application. A View extracts necessary information from a model and renders a user interface to display that.[1]

    The ASP.NET MVC Framework couples the models, views, and controllers using interface-based contracts, thereby allowing each component to be easily tested independently. By default, the view engine in the MVC framework uses regular .aspx pages to design the layout of the user interface pages onto which the data is composed. However, different View Engines can be used (for example, you can create a View Engine based on XSLT files).[2] Additionally, rather than the default ASP.NET postback model, any interactions are routed to the controllers using the ASP.NET 3.5 SP1 Routing mechanism. Views can be mapped to REST-friendly URLs.[1]"

    More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASP.NET_MVC_Framework

    ASP.NET has Many "Add-Ons" Frameworks, some of these include

    AJAX, Dynamic Data, Web Forms ("Heart and Soul of ASP.NET"), Dynamic Language Support.

    More Here: http://www.codeplex.com/aspnet

    I quote:

    "ASP.NET MVC enables you to build Model View Controller (MVC) applications by using the ASP.NET framework. ASP.NET MVC is an alternative, not a replacement, for ASP.NET Web Forms that offers the following benefits:"

    From: The Official Microsoft ASP.NET MVC Site ASP.NET http://www.asp.net/mvc/

    Not to be confused with the Official Microsoft ASP.NET site located here: http://www.asp.net/

    The ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" Framework is in "Beta". I quote:

    "As I always like to make sure I point out: If you don't like the MVC model or don't find it natural to your style of development, you definitely don't have to use it. It is a totally optional offering - and does not replace the existing WebForms model. Both WebForms and MVC will be fully supported and enhanced going forward (ASP.NET WebForms in .NET 4.0 will add richer URL routing features, better HTML css markup support, complete control over the ClientId property, more AJAX features, and more that I'll be blogging about soon). So if you don't like the MVC option, don't worry, and don't feel like you should or need to use it (you don't)."

    From: http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...-released.aspx

    The ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" Framework is NOT nor has it ever been a design pattern for .NET or ASP.NET

    The ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" Framework is NOT nor has it even been suggested as "A Best Practice" by Microsoft. ASP.NET MVC is an alternative, not a replacement, for ASP.NET Web Forms

    More Here: http://www.codeplex.com/aspnet/Wiki/...ringTitle=Home

    The ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" framework was started as a "Project" on 2007-12-10.

    ASP.NET MVC "Beta" source code has been downloaded 2,224 times and has had 1 review:

    More here: http://www.codeplex.com/aspnet/Relea...eleaseId=18593

    The ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" Framework has NEVER been and is NOT tightly coupled with "the Observer pattern".

    Hopefully, this will help anyone who is "Confused" about what the ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" Framework was and is.

    So how the ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" framwoek "automatically" makes "the Observer pattern" a "Best Practice" is anyones guess.

    My point in this "Long-Winded" post, is that the ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" Framework does not make "the Observer pattern" a "Best Practice".

    I have stated this many times, to these 2. I don't have time to play "Wack-A-Mole" and go from one tangent to the next. I try and focus on "the Observer pattern" not being a "Best Practice" they both need to go off to how ASP.NET MVC. or J2EE is this or that and because of that the sky is blue.

    Having a technical discussion with these 2 is like playing the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon you start on one topic and by the time you are done, Kevin Bacon has become a systems programmer because he knows this person, that knows this person, that knows this person, that knows this person, that knows this person, that knows this person who once wrote a basic program on a Z80 Timex Sinclair 3 days after he came down from a window pane trip.

    Or "This is a "Best Practice" because this book shows it and that book shows it too!" Hey wait a minute that's not 6 Degress!

    The original claim was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    Actually, the observer pattern is a best practices way of doing things. As is the MVC pattern. As is the visitor pattern. As are all the other common patterns as mentioned in any good design patterns book. They are all "best practices". If the logic of your application is similar to that of one of the above patterns, then you'd be an idiot to not use that pattern. Similarly, if the logic of your program does *not* suit a specific pattern, you'd be an idiot to force your program to work through that pattern.[/b]
    Mentioning a common or non-common design pattern for a specific example in a good design book does NOT make a design pattern a best practices way of doing things, in all cases. Nor does it "Exclude" other methods automatically by the mear fact that it happens NOT to be mentioned in said book.

    This applies to Design Patterns as well as Method references.

    So, this post was about the above statement, trying to show some of the instanity of such a statement. The concept of "If it can be bought on Amazon.com" then it automatically is a "Best Practices" is completely "False".

    "the observer pattern is a best practices way of doing things. As is the MVC pattern."

    The ASP.NET "Add-On" Framework MVC as well as "the Observer pattern" are frameworks and methods not "Best Practices". They are addtiional methods NOT replacements, to do something, that can be done today, another way.

    If the ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" framework "Beta" source code has been downloaded 2,224 times and has had 1 review since it went "Beta" on October 20, 2008, I think it is safe to say, it currently is NOT a "Best Practice" http://www.codeplex.com/aspnet/Relea...eleaseId=18593

    Example: None, not one, of the Microsoft offical sites listed above, ever refer to the ASP.NET MVC "Add-On" framwork as a "Best Practice" as I have stated before, 2 people here seem to think that what they say TRUMPS fact, sadly it is not true.

    What is true, is that anytime these 2, are called on their statements and claims, they once again re-define what their original claim(s) were, or tell you how confused you are about not understanding this or that and never seem to be capable to provide anything but links to obscure ("In the sense that these links do not support their claims") web pages about their claims or go off on some wild 6 degress of Kevin Bacon tanget game.

    Things like: "A Design Pattern is NEVER code." Wow, really Daddy, I never knew that, even after 39 years of programming!.

    Or As far as "What is a Design PAttern". To directly quote Eric Gamma.... Wow, Daddy, don't stop now!

    As you can see, since these 2 know, and have known, that I have 39 years programming experience it's the same ignorance that thinks it is ok to insult because after all:

    "The last time I looked, you had posted on fewer then 10 threads total over a period in excess of three years. Hardly what one would cojnsider a serious contibutor to the forum...."

    I guess the above statment excuses this post then?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    Personally, while you may have 39 years of programming experience, you appear to have very little understanding of design patterns as shown by my third point above. I can only claim 4 years of 'real world' programming experience in three languages, though I think it'd be safe to say I appear to have a better grasp of design patterns and they're cross language use than you. Is that a fair statement?
    I do have over 35 years of experience, including a quarter of a century running a consulting firm that guides Fortune 500 companies in the adoption and use of technology. I also provide to these clients recommendations on hiring and training.

    Given the information posted on this thread, along with other threads by both parties; I would have to agree with your assesment. I would go one step further and predict that you would be accepted as a candidate for a position in more companies.

    -- Just my observation. Posted publically since ZOverLord has continued to keep private messaging disabled; and I did not want to "talk behind" ANYONE's back.
    Even after I have supplied the links to the Microsoft Patterns and Practices Web Site, these jokers, need to play the "Lets Insult him again" game.

    I am just happy to supply some helpful links. And for others to see these what these 2 have for people skills.

    Combined with their incessant need to insult and think that after 39 years programming experience I have no clue what a Design Pattern or Best Practice is, ignorant indeed I am guilty of supplying one definition of "best practices" in this thread, BUT....it was in Gest ("See the Smiley faces in that post")

    I must be a threat to them, since they can't stop trying to "teach" me things I already know and can't stop "Insulting" me. or.....maybe it's my POST count?

    Again, the Patterns and Practices Web Site for Microsoft is located here

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/practices/default.aspx

    I quote:

    "Introduction

    Microsoft patterns & practices was created to meet the demands of architects and application developers seeking guidance on how to apply Microsoft’s array of products and technologies to common application development scenarios and technical challenges. Microsoft patterns & practices are Microsoft’s proven recommendations for how to design, develop, deploy, and operate architecturally sound application for the Microsoft platform."

    From: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/practices/bb190357.aspx

    I Quote:

    "Finding patterns & practices

    New patterns & practices (p&p) titles are frequently released. You can find all of the current patterns & practices in the MSDN Library. While you can navigate through the p&p catalog directly using the MSDN Library left-hand navigation tree, you may find it more interesting and easier to find what you are looking for by using the p&p Developer Center.

    The p&p Developer Center is designed as a portal, to help you find the p&p offerings that are appropriate for the problem you are trying to solve. Here are some of the ways you can find patterns & practices to help with the solution you are building:

    Explore the catalog by:

    Type of application you are building (Web applications, desktop applications, and so on.)
    Version of .NET platform or tools you are using (.NET Framework v3.x and Visual Studio.)
    Quality you need to achieve (Security, manageability, and others.)
    Explore the complete patterns & practices catalog."

    From: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/practices/bb190357.aspx

    OMG! I can't find ASP.NET MVC "add-On" Framework or "the Observer pattern" as a "best practice" on the Microsoft patterns & practices web site!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    No.
    Design patterns are language agnostic. A java book is just as relevant as a C# book, which is just as relevant as a C++ book. The patterns do not change.
    Please...someone send Microsoft an email, they have made a Terrible and Horrific language agnostic design patterns and best practices mistake!

    Yuck..Yuck..Yuck...Certainly
    Last edited by ZOverLord; January 6th, 2009 at 04:02 PM.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
    Posts
    12,125

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    ZOverLord,

    You last post is really "out-there". The fact that something is publisred (in a positive sense, not as a anti-patern) makes it a prima facia "Best Practice".

    As far as "What is a Design PAttern". To directly quote Eric Gamma (one of the four authors of the original and seminal work on Design Patterns)
    A Design Pattern is a reusuable solution to a recurring problem.
    Also from the introduction to the same book
    This book contains examples in C++ and SmallTalk"
    A Design Pattern is NEVER code. It is specificly a "shorthand recognized annotation for a common approach". An Implementation of a design pattern can be written in nearly any language; and there can be thousands of implementations of a single design pattern in any given language. Additionally, most practical implementations make use of more than one design pattern within the codebase.

    As to my public postings, it is YOU who have determined the means. I average 400-700 Private messages with other members per month.It is YOU who have deliberately blocked this means of communication.

    Regarding Mutant_FRuit and myself, if you look at the actual posts over the past years, you would have seen that we often disagree (sometimes strongly, often most strongly in private messaging) and theat there is no more correlation on the thousands of threads we have posted on then there is between any two members with similar posting levels.

    The last time I looked, you had posted on fewer then 10 threads total over a period in excess of three years. Hardly what one would cojnsider a serious contibutor to the forum....
    TheCPUWizard is a registered trademark, all rights reserved. (If this post was helpful, please RATE it!)
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  9. #84
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    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    Hmm.. Now we are three, So maybe I wasn't so wrong .
    My referencce I already told you its The book 'Head First Design Patterns' which is part of a series of Head First books from O'Reilly Author is Eric & Elisabeth Freeman.
    Sorry I only have the german ISBN, but you 'll find it at Amazon
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  10. #85
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    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    I don't believe i ever used ASP.NET as an example of MVC. I never claimed that ASP.NET is based on MVC patterns. You just created that in your mind. The only thing I can think of is that you deliberately mis-understood things when i mentioned the MonoRail project. MonoRail is an MVC framework to be used with ASP.NET. That is not the same as me saying ASP.NET follows the MVC pattern. These are two completely different frameworks here. Don't confuse them.

    So, you wrote an extremely long winded post arguing that something that was never asserted as true. It was never even mentioned or thought of until you brought it up out of nowhere. Ironically, parts of your post are actually asserting that MVC is a very good pattern to use.

    Microsoft patterns & practices are Microsoft’s proven recommendations for how to design, develop, deploy, and operate architecturally sound application for the Microsoft platform."
    Microsoft has spent a ton of money and resources on making it easy to develop MVC applications using ASP.NET and are actively promoting it as an alternative to the traditional methodology. So, that would imply that MVC is a "proven recommendation for how to design, develop, deploy" an application, right? That's directly from what you quoted. Microsoft are explicitly supporting MVC, so it must be good. Right? Otherwise they'd be lying on their website and wasting a ton of money on a completely useless idea. So, you've just added to the argument that it is a best practice.

    Anyway, this is fruitless. It's plainly obvious that you're misinterpreting the meaning of "a best practice" to mean something similar to "the one and only best pattern ever". This is not what it means. If english is not your first language, you can be forgiven the mistake. If it is your first language, well, that's just weird then.

    Ciao.
    Last edited by Mutant_Fruit; January 6th, 2009 at 03:16 PM.
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  11. #86
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    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    i think that ignoring the skills of a person with 39 years of programming is not good...sorry!
    it is not important that some with 39 years of programming how much has contributed to this forum. for sure he has contributed to more important issues in these years also he has started to have a good contribution in this forum within the las 1 monthes.... i see people in this forum registred around 200- 2002 with less than post and rating than him.

    i have a question?...about 200 genius programmers from all over the world gahtered in Germany and developed an out-staniding Game Engine (CrySis).

    would you please show me one of them in this forum?
    does it mean if some day one of them come here and start posting we should poke fun at him becuase he posted like this or than...even he may have very wrong idea about an very important issue like all of the people in the world.

    have you seen a game programmer that don't realy know the difference between i++ and ++i... i have seen. but it is not important because soon or later he will learn it from some one or will read in somewhere...important issue is that he has a lot of skills that can code games.
    and for sure in the team of developments some coders are expert in something and some thers in something else.

    do they should redicule each other for what they don't know?
    if the answer is yes....so all of us should rediclue each other!

    i realy don't what exactly a best practice is! i red this thread compeletly and what bothers me is why some one should contradict other with 39 years of programming skills in many language and many platforms...what we should do here is we should respect such people and appricate them and help then to interest them to do exist in this community and help people instead of making them nervous and cause they escape from this forum.

    what is obvoius to me ZOverLoard is an expert ans seasoned person even i realized this even before he come here and defend himself (says 39...)...form the very frist posts of him i realized he is a valuable man and we need him in thid forum to help us.

    again i remind that contriuting in this forum is not a very credit to the experience of a person.
    do you see John Carmack in this forum or other comunities like http://www.gamedev.net. if some day John Carmack comes here and begin to contribute in this forum and express some wrong idea about something we should behave him in a manner to cause him to leave this forum and goes to other forums that people behave better with him.

    what i have realized in my short experience of programing is: Programmers are sensitive persons and mostly with bad skills of communication (i have seen in my workplace- friends-university and my net friends).

    we should not behave with programmer like a person who works in the mines and extract coal...the way of communication vary from one to one....if you do adhere to this issue in yout workplace but you don't adhere to it in other places it means that you respect only people you work with them and ignore others.

    sorry to be off-topic but i think both of you(CPU and Zoverloard) where more off-topic than me in this thread with this difference that the credit of this thread goes to ZOverloard becuase of his more contribution and related posting to the question of the OP.
    Last edited by toraj58; January 6th, 2009 at 03:31 PM.
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  12. #87

    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    Thanks toraj58,

    I know that people like you and others can help keep this from happening.

    I apologize to you and the others in this thread, these 2 follow me and "Trash Threads" like they have here, you can look at my posting history to see this.

    I refuse now to "Play their game" and will no longer respond to any post here from them, here or in any other thread.

    They both are not capable to control their insulting behaviors. I don't think you can give people skills to some.

    The latest example of this is questioning where I was born, like this matters, but I was born and raised in Chicago, I am an American, and a Vietnam veteran.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Fruit View Post
    If english is not your first language, you can be forgiven the mistake. If it is your first language, well, that's just weird then.
    Ciao.
    It just shows the blatant ignorance that these 2 are capable of. When you don't agree with them, they have the need to insult your experience and then when they fail at that, they need to insult your ability to use the English language. Sick and Disgusting really!

    Again, I apologize
    Last edited by ZOverLord; January 6th, 2009 at 04:52 PM.

  13. #88
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    Arjay is offline Moderator / EX MS MVP Power Poster
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    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    [Moderator mode]In general we moderators like to send pm's but some of you don't have them turned on, so....

    Let's everyone strive to keep the discussion on topic and focus on answering the OP's question. If you'd like to have a side discussion, then send it in a PM.

    Of course, if you don't have PM's enabled, then please do so.

    Thanks

  14. #89
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    Jul 2008
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    Re: Passing Variable To Form Problem

    Hi,

    I would like to thank everyone who has helped me in this thread. Some people who might have gotten a little sidetracked early on, and not helped a huge amount this time, have helped me a lot previously in other threads.

    Thankyou all.

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