Is this a wise choice?

[Xeon]

Considering that folks like Marie Mih can post threads on her boyfriend problem in this forum, I'm gonna post mine too (no, not bf problems in my case ).

After screwing my own life years ago when my thinking wasn't mature enough, I've decided to go back to the world of IT.

Been working as a admin coordinator (filing papers, doing e-mails with clients, and those clerk-chores) for years, and now I'm sick of it.

Low salary, low pay, low life, my balls shrunk to nothingness, chicks don't see you as hubby material etc......I'm so effing sick of it. I feel like a zombie everyday doing crap I hate.

I've decided to take up this Diploma in InfoComm Technology course which teaches the following modules:

* Discrete Mathematics (I think I'm gonna get owned by this one)
* Information Systems and the Organisations
* Fundamentals of Programming
* Introduction to Computer & Operating Systems
* Database Design & Modelling
* Introduction to Software Engineering
* Object-Oriented Programming
* Data Communication and Networking
* Web Applications Development
* Developing Business Applications

It's a 20-month night-time course for working adults (about 600 hours).

My aim is to get a solid foundation in IT first, then specialize in web development (HTML, CSS, AJAX, PHP etc.). I would like to be a web programmer.

However, I'm already 25 yrs now and after completing this course, I'll be 27 yrs old. At 27, it's hard to switch to an IT career, right? (besides, this course is not even a Bachelor degree)

And if I were to start learning web development after completing this course, I would probably be 31 yrs old by the time I get comfortable with web stuff like AJAX or PHP.

At that kind of age, I seriously doubt I can even find a job in IT.

Alternatively, maybe I can forget this diploma course and instead sign-up for individual web development classes (like HTML-CSS course, then JavaScript course, then PHP course, then AJAX course etc)?

In case you're wondering, my country doesn't have anything like a "Diploma in Web Development" (actually, there is one, but it's conducted through online learning and it's very basic; I would rather buy books and read instead; I prefer going to real classes cos' I don't have self-discipline to teach myself such stuff )

If anyone has some advice, I'm willing to hear.
Heck, I've already pulled down my briefs!

[John E]

At 27, it's hard to switch to an IT career, right?

It probably varies from country to country but you need to think about how long you can last in IT. In the UK, IT tends to be seen as a young man's game. You'd certainly get a job at 27 but they'd be putting you out to grass at 40.

A friend of mine was 40 when he got made redundant (9 years ago) from his job in IT. He decided to take a year off, re-charge his batteries and then start looking for a new job. He has never worked again....

[ryanwarren]

Those courses look incredibly boring. You can learn all of that on your own. Or, try and get some contracting jobs for web development. Check out who is teaching those courses, go through the material, cause it might not be that stimulating. Might want to find the cheapest possible place to get a piece of paper so you can land some jobs.

It's not hard to switch careers at 27. My best friend only got involved into IT around that age.
What is going to be your real issue is whether you are interested in web development enough to learn it.

If it's a money situation, and something you want to push yourself into or whatever, I'd recommend reading about those courses, their contents, web programming, checking out some podcasts, video podcasts on people talking about it. You'll find out if it's something you can do.

And don't be upset if you don't 100% like it. I hate working some days, we all do. You just have to enjoy it now and again :P

Best of luck.

[Xeon]

It probably varies from country to country but you need to think about how long you can last in IT. In the UK, IT tends to be seen as a young man's game. You'd certainly get a job at 27 but they'd be putting you out to grass at 40.

Thanks John! But I assume in your dictionary, IT is not the same as programming, right? And that IT is a more general term? Because if people get put out of IT jobs at age 40, then most of the programmers in this world would be age 39 or less!

A friend of mine was 40 when he got made redundant (9 years ago) from his job in IT. He decided to take a year off, re-charge his batteries and then start looking for a new job. He has never worked again....

****, well, maybe he saved enough $$$ to live a happy life in some parts of rural England tending to his farm with a hot farm chick as his wife, where birds sing sweetly and cows moo gently.....

If it's a money situation, and something you want to push yourself into or whatever, I'd recommend reading about those courses, their contents, web programming, checking out some podcasts, video podcasts on people talking about it. You'll find out if it's something you can do.

And don't be upset if you don't 100% like it. I hate working some days, we all do. You just have to enjoy it now and again :P

Thanks Ryan; actually, I was aiming to become a freelance web developer eventually, but I'm not sure how feasible that is. Is it a realistic goal, enough to survive?

If not, then maybe it's just better to get a cert first and look for some lower-paying IT job and go from there, gain experience, and become a freelance web developer eventually.

I've one friend who told me that if I were to specialize in web programming from the start without doing a general IT diploma, it's a bad idea, cos' I won't know the basics of computing like network communications, concepts of database systems etc.

Good day,
Xeon

[dglienna]

If you're at ll artistic, then you'll do good in web dev. If not (like me) you work on the back-end (programming) and leave the artwork to the artists.

It's always good to know the history of something, but IT is an ever changing field.

If you can find work without a cert, then go for it. Otherwise, get a copy of Expressions Web and Expressions Design, or whatever you like, and read a few books.

You should be able to do something easily, or with more trouble than it's worth.

You will have saved the tuition $$$, though.

[John E]

Thanks John! But I assume in your dictionary, IT is not the same as programming, right?

Yes - in my experience, someone who works in 'IT' is generally someone who works in network management. They might have some experience of Perl or other scripting languages but they wouldn't usually think of themselves as programmers.

The web development thing puzzles me though. I can't help thinking that if you had a talent for web development you'd already be doing it. Almost every web developer I know is self taught and an 'eye for design' is up there at the top of the requirements. Later on in their careers, web developers need to start acquiring some technical knowledge because different browsers react differently to the same design. However, it's surprising how long a web developer can exist with little or no technical knowledge. Also, it's a career that you can sustain well into your old age. One of the best web developers I know is in his 70's. He just works privately for local businesses and didn't really start until he was about 60 but it's something he's got a flair for and people like his work.

[Xeon]

The web development thing puzzles me though. I can't help thinking that if you had a talent for web development you'd already be doing it. Almost every web developer I know is self taught and an 'eye for design' is up there at the top of the requirements.

Well, like Dilenna says, if you're not good at the graphics staff (I'm bad at it, btw), then we can always specialize in back-end coding like PHP.

There's some people out there who're great at designing graphics and also good at coding, and some web guys out there are good only at graphics stuff and can't understand code very well, and some who are only good at coding and their graphics skills are worse than a 5-year old kid.

An eye for design or being artistically talented is a bonus but not a must.
If it were, then you would see the number of people in web development halved by 70% or more.

Anyway, I need to think a bit more on this.

Good day,
Xeon

[aio]

Hey Xeon. What happened to that military service you rendered 5 years ago (i think that was 5 years ago)? Isnt it more exciting than IT jobs? Why not join the air force and fly F-16 instead, then decide after 2 years if you still want IT jobs.

[Xeon]

Hey Xeon. What happened to that military service you rendered 5 years ago (i think that was 5 years ago)? Isnt it more exciting than IT jobs? Why not join the air force and fly F-16 instead, then decide after 2 years if you still want IT jobs.

My, AIO.......you're still at CodeGuru?
That military service.......aye.....it was like 4+ years since I completed that.

And no, it's not more exciting than IT jobs.

Imagine yourself in an army camp, facing guys everyday, it's no wonder why army folks tend to be horny, and it's very unhealthy. It's slightly better than serving in jail, though.

And F-16, only officers with good eye-sight etc. can fly those, not just any one.

Anyway, joining the military in any country is a bad decision.
At least, that's my opinion. Most sane people would rather lead a normal, non-regimental life and don't get sent to some foreign country to die. They think it's patriotic but it's BS, actually.

So, are you still in VB programming? I remember you used to specialize in VB.

[Alin]

Xeon,

I refrained - so far - making any comments, but what the hell happened and why did you left programming in the first place?! I remember when I joined CG in 2002 you were so into it, good at it, you know what I mean. I would personally not take any courses, not now at least. You must still have enough memories and experience to get yourself a medium level software engineer job and work yourself up from there. There is no course that can teach you real-life, so instead of wasting another 2 years, start now, even if the pay sucks and work yourself up.

my 2 cents,
Alin

[Xeon]

Xeon,
I refrained - so far - making any comments, but what the hell happened and why did you left programming in the first place?! I remember when I joined CG in 2002 you were so into it, good at it, you know what I mean. I would personally not take any courses, not now at least. You must still have enough memories and experience to get yourself a medium level software engineer job and work yourself up from there. There is no course that can teach you real-life, so instead of wasting another 2 years, start now, even if the pay sucks and work yourself up.

Hi Alin.....I don't remember you, do I?

Yeah, I used to be so into it but er......I must admit my spirit was weak at that time, because after entering the military for 2 years, I just lost all will to continue to program and the rest of my life after that is a haze.

But well, at least I'm starting to find myself again. I must admit it's a bit late but it's better than never. Btw, I was never really good at programming even back then. If you check my threads long ago, I was pretty much only somewhat better than the average newcomer.

And no, you really over-estimated me......my coding memories left me long ago (5 +- years ago), and while I can still understand and remember the basics of programming, I'm nowhere even suitable to apply for a low-level software engineer job (I can still read code but can't write!).
I can help total newcomers to programming at most, though.

Anyway, I've decided to go the web route for a change, and now I'm learning HTML/CSS, and after that, JavaScript, then PHP. After that, it's probably AJAX or ASP / ASP.net.

There's an upcoming web-development specialization course offered by a local well-known government school where 90% of the fees are paid for by them, and if they allow me in, it'll be paradise.

The entry requirements are that I either have to have a diploma (in any subject), but since I've none, they will need me to convince the head.

This is where my letter-writing, story-telling skills come in. I hope I can make the guy sob with empathy when he reads my letter.

Take care,
Xeon

[Alin]

Hi Alin.....I don't remember you, do I?

check your "how do I...." posts. they'll be a good refresher.

[jollivee]

I wish you luck.. I guess that it is a good choice. Postcard Printing Services