Need advice - dev tech interviews

[tmd]

Hi everyone. Mod please delete my other post of the same under a new SN, i found my original login info, thanks. I apologize ahead of time for a long post.

Anyway my problem is I have been doing very badly in the technical interviews. Basically just about all of them go something like "Write out a binary search from scratch on the white board".
I havent had to do one in 10 years and that was in school. I understand the binary search inside and out obviously but I dont have it "memorized". Im using the bs as an example, its always something "like" that. Something from a CIS 101 book that I havent had to look at in 10 years.

If its not that then its an HR screener with 15-30 questions which are either riddled with errors that they refuse to acknowledge because they are just HR types reading from a sheet or some cryptic error code snippets that purposely try to throw you off and then ask for the output, which I admittedly am a slave to the compiler and the debugger when it comes to identifying this kind of thing in the real world, where its never as bad as the snippets on these tests. For example, a recruiter with a screener sheet recently asked me "what errors does the compiler give for an empty class defintion". I asked for a little elaboration but got none and then assumed that a proper class declaration was given with nothng but a ; inside the class {}. I thought about it for a minute and answered "NONE". I am fairly confident this is the correct answer(Depending on the compiler of course but I think most this is correct) but the recruiter insisted that the sheets correct answer was default constructor+destructor, copy constructor and something else. She ended the call after i "got that wrong".

A little background about myself to give some insight into what my current situation is. I majored in CS at a very good school. I was doing senior work when I was recruited into the working field for a software company. Finances at the time forced me to accept and put the last year on hold. While working there in an apprentice role, where I didnt do much coding, I was recruited again into the finance field. At this finance job I was to work on a neural net for trading sytems. There was no code in place. There was no dev team in place. The money was excellent and the challenge was very appealing. While working there, the off the shelf software that was being used matured very quickly and everything we needed to code that I was suppose to start from scratch became avilable via this softwares scripting language. The API had previously been closed off but suddenly it became wire open and powerful. The bad news is I became a scripter not a developer. The scripting was very fast and eventually I was pulled into the trading and became a registered trader. For 6 years I was more a trader than a dev by far with occasional scrpting.

During these 6 years there, I still yearned for actual dev work. I was allowed to take a contract on my own time working for startup remotely. They had a codebase in place. They had a team in place. I thought I was finally going to get exposure. Well the codebase was awful and the management was even worse. I spent 18 months lon contract ooking for bugs and writing HTML parses into SQL calls. I learned very little.

Now here we are today. I am bombing these interviews because I dont have that deep experience in what a real life cycle os from start to finish. I cant whip out code under pressure off the top of my head. I can however learn very quickly and figure things out. I get it. I get it at every level right away. I see what the user will see and need and I can code to that. I find the best or very good solutions, but I need references in front of me. I need google, I need my reference material, I need the MSDN and I need to be able to compile bits of code and step thru them to make sure they are correct. This is, as far as I understand it, the real world of developers. I cant do that in the tech interviews. I freeze up and cant whip the answers because I have been put thru this before and I know it never ends well. But I know if I can just get that foot in the door and find the right team I would thrive. I am very intelligent. I have tested 135-145 ranges in all IQ tests ( I had to take one for the finance job and took 3 others thruout my life). I dont meant to brag there but the point is I am not a dummy(i will seem like one for not spell cheking this post) but I am looking like one in this tech interviews every time. I have an interview this tuesday and I am thinking of explaining something along the lines of this post to the interviewer but he will probably have 10 other guys lined up that can do the code. I am plagued by the fact that I have thru my experiences become a jack of all trades and master of none.

What can I do? I need work soon!!! Thanks!

[tmd]

Thanks for the help guys. Interview is tomorrow morning. I should do great with all of this valuable information.

[SteveTaylor]

I simply practices writing the apps out on paper. Do every on line C++ test you can get your hands on, read up on any question you get wrong and ace it next time.

[nuzzle]

Thanks for the help guys. Interview is tomorrow morning. I should do great with all of this valuable information.

Maybe it's rather an attitude problem. You seem very good at blaming others for your failures. I bet if you flunk that interview it's because you didn't get proper help here.

I suggest you have a good look at yourself.

[tmd]

Maybe it's rather an attitude problem. You seem very good at blaming others for your failures. I bet if you flunk that interview it's because you didn't get proper help here.

I suggest you have a good look at yourself.

Who did I blame for what? I think your reading comprehension skills have failed you.

[nuzzle]

Who did I blame for what? I think your reading comprehension skills have failed you.

"they refuse to acknowledge"
"but the recruiter insisted that"
"where I didnt do much coding"
"I became a scripter not a developer"
"the codebase was awful and the management was even worse"
"I learned very little."
"This is, as far as I understand it, the real world of developers."
" I am very intelligent"
"he will probably have 10 other guys lined up"
"I should do great with all of this valuable information."
"I think your reading comprehension skills have failed you."

You're the archetypical Constant Blamer. It's always someone else or the circumstances, never you.

[Brad Jones]

I would not recommend complaining about the interview processes in an interview. I'd focus on the job they need done and the skills and expernience you have, that you can point to, that provide what they need. While an interview is about your career and future, it really isn't about you, but about what the company interviewing you can get from you and how you will fit into their organization.

In my opinion...
If you are doing a tech interview with an HR screener, then your only hope is to answer the questions in the way the interviewer expects the answer. Doing a tech interview with a non-tech screener is.... what it is. You answer right, or you move on.

If you are tech interviewing with a tech person from the team - especially if there is a whiteboard - then the best thing I see doing if you don't know the answer is discussing the question with the interviewer and asking questions.

Many, many many years ago, I was given a tech interview that I believe I failed miserably on. It was very interesting, but I didn't know the answer to a lot of the questions. There were questions like resolving three or four levels of indirection using pointers in C/C++. It was crazy stuff that seemed like complex questions just to see if I was paying attention to the theory when I learned to program. I ended up asking about the complexity of the level of indirection that was being asked about. The reality was that the sample code they wanted me to evaluate was taken directly from their system. It was code I'd be working with. I didn't answer they question, but I understood the code and how they were using it before the interview was done. It was my interest in understanding the code and showing that I understood that helped me land the job -- rather than my being able to write it out on the whiteboard on command.

Bottom line is that for each interview you go to, you should be asking as many questions as they are asking you. Find out how they are using code, what tools they are using, what challenges they face, etc. You then use what you learn to educate yourself and prepare for the next interview.

Doing that and taking nuzzle's indirect suggestion could help a lot -- his suggestion was 'be positive and look for "opportunities " rather than "problems to solve." When I was an analyst working to define business systems, I learned to avoid the word "problem". There are no problems, just issues to resolve and opportunities for improvements

Brad!

[tmd]

"they refuse to acknowledge"
"but the recruiter insisted that"
"where I didnt do much coding"
"I became a scripter not a developer"
"the codebase was awful and the management was even worse"
"I learned very little."
"This is, as far as I understand it, the real world of developers."
" I am very intelligent"
"he will probably have 10 other guys lined up"
"I should do great with all of this valuable information."
"I think your reading comprehension skills have failed you."

You're the archetypical Constant Blamer. It's always someone else or the circumstances, never you.

I now think you are an idiot. Its called reality. I will take just one of your examples but each and every one can be refuted.

"I learned very little."

Should I claim to have learned rocket science instead? Would that have been not blaming others? Its called reality. I was exposed to simple dated code which kept me in the dark on to what cutting edge technology looks like in a commercial environment.

I realize this is your attempt at a power trip but I'm not the one to get cute with little man.

[tmd]

I would not recommend complaining about the interview processes in an interview. I'd focus on the job they need done and the skills and expernience you have, that you can point to, that provide what they need. While an interview is about your career and future, it really isn't about you, but about what the company interviewing you can get from you and how you will fit into their organization.

In my opinion...
If you are doing a tech interview with an HR screener, then your only hope is to answer the questions in the way the interviewer expects the answer. Doing a tech interview with a non-tech screener is.... what it is. You answer right, or you move on.

If you are tech interviewing with a tech person from the team - especially if there is a whiteboard - then the best thing I see doing if you don't know the answer is discussing the question with the interviewer and asking questions.

Many, many many years ago, I was given a tech interview that I believe I failed miserably on. It was very interesting, but I didn't know the answer to a lot of the questions. There were questions like resolving three or four levels of indirection using pointers in C/C++. It was crazy stuff that seemed like complex questions just to see if I was paying attention to the theory when I learned to program. I ended up asking about the complexity of the level of indirection that was being asked about. The reality was that the sample code they wanted me to evaluate was taken directly from their system. It was code I'd be working with. I didn't answer they question, but I understood the code and how they were using it before the interview was done. It was my interest in understanding the code and showing that I understood that helped me land the job -- rather than my being able to write it out on the whiteboard on command.

Bottom line is that for each interview you go to, you should be asking as many questions as they are asking you. Find out how they are using code, what tools they are using, what challenges they face, etc. You then use what you learn to educate yourself and prepare for the next interview.

Doing that and taking nuzzle's indirect suggestion could help a lot -- his suggestion was 'be positive and look for "opportunities " rather than "problems to solve." When I was an analyst working to define business systems, I learned to avoid the word "problem". There are no problems, just issues to resolve and opportunities for improvements

Brad!

Thanks Brad. The problem was that in this harder economy, at least in my area, the interviews are hard to come by and its hard to make the most of it when 1 out of 100 resumes sent lands 1 interview(there i am blaming someone again i bet by nuzzle's logic, forget the fact that mathemtically its true!) It puts more pressure on the 1 or 2 interviews you land at. I did some searching and my thoughts on this matter seem to be very common on several blogs about the nature and effectiveness(lack there of) whiteboard type interviews. It was very comforting to see that there is a large set of professional devs and hiring tech managers out there that felt exactly as I do about these methods.

I ended up getting the job by the way. Just wait till I find someone to blame that one on I am going to unload on them.

[nuzzle]

I will take just one of your examples but each and every one can be refuted.

You're in denial. Each example in isolation would mean nothing but taken together they paint the picture of an extreme blamer. Recruiters are very sensitives to negative vibes like that.

Congratulations, you got the job I understand. Thought one thing I know for sure. When something goes wrong on the job it will never be your fault and when things turn sour and you leave it will be their fault as usual.

I'm sorry for not having provided the cuddling and comforting you expected. What you do with my frank observation is up to you. Good luck.

[tmd]

You're in denial. Each example in isolation would mean nothing but taken together they paint the picture of an extreme blamer. Recruiters are very sensitives to negative vibes like that.

Congratulations, you got the job I understand. Thought one thing I know for sure. When something goes wrong on the job it will never be your fault and when things turn sour and you leave it will be their fault as usual.

I'm sorry for not having provided the cuddling and comforting you expected. What you do with my frank observation is up to you. Good luck.

You clearly wish for others to fail so you can feel better about yourself. Youre a self exalted know it all clearly who is only here to attain on a forum what you socially have failed at since youth. Clearly you have entered this thread to be combative and that is fine by me. I will gladly engage.

[tmd]

"Recruiters are very sensitives to negative vibes like that."

LOL! Which ones, the indians that can barely pronounce 3 words correctly in a 10 minute conversation or the used car salesman that send out spam listings asking for referrals? Which ones are these emotional savants you speak of?

[nuzzle]

... the indians that can barely pronounce 3 words correctly in a 10 minute conversation or the used car salesman that ...

A very convincing demonstration indeed of the dangers of not taking negative vibes seriously. Any recruiter's nightmare.

You scratch the surface just a little and what have you. I must say I'm not particularly interested in finding more so again, good luck and good bye.

[tmd]

A very convincing demonstration indeed of the dangers of not taking negative vibes seriously. Any recruiter's nightmare.

You scratch the surface just a little and what have you. I must say I'm not particularly interested in finding more so again, good luck and good bye.

Indeed. Apology accepted.

[Brad Jones]

thread closed