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dear all,
i fancy a career change, into programming. i was very talented in the 1980s and have started to learn |C++
is it feasible to be self-taught and simply demonstrate applications developed to get a junior role?
is my path of non-visual c++ the best route?
all advice warmly welcome!
many thanks, neil
I would think the MS Visual tools would be used far more than anything else out there, so if you're learning C++, I think learning MS version of it could only help. I'm kind of stuck in a time warp, but I would think being familiar with .net and C# would help too.
As to demonstrating projects you've done to teach yourself, if I were interviewing you for an entry level job, I'd be moderately interested, but I'd be much more interested just in how well you handled yourself and how well versed you seemed just talking about the technologies we use and your approach to application development. At a junior level, intelligence and an aptitude for rapid learning are more important than anything else.
If you can demonstrate your skills that will definitely help. I mean, look at it this way:
If you were a patient, wouldn't you rather have the doctor who has performed many successful open-heart surgeries rather than the one who just graduated from med school with no previous experience? If I were an employer, I would definitely be interested in someone with a complete portfolio and maybe throw a few bizarre terms and concepts at him to see if he reacts in a productive and positive way.
Lord knows that you wont be building your own programs for awhile, you'll probably be busy debugging other programmers stuff, messing with 15 - 20 year code putting in I/O updates, and generally going through hell. I'm sure it wont be roses and daisy's, lol.
In my job, I do a lot of HTML templates for emails when I got hired in I had to fix all the previous persons screw ups as well as maintain the templates so our email department is up to date. Granted its not programming, but it is similar to the semantics of how it will go.
All in all, if you show the will to learn on your own and you push yourself to grow in your field and you show self-motivation, those are excellent qualities :thumb:
EDIT:
Oh, and I have the inclination to think that Visual and Non-Visual C++ developers are in two different fields. There is a definite market for Non-Visual. I mean, granted the user interactivity isn't as friendly as a visual app but who says the user has to interact with it? Maybe the user just starts the program and it runs by itself. It could be an anti-virus, a defragger, a disk partitioning program, or something that links two computers together. There is always room for non-visual apps. It just depends on where you wanna go.
I think it depends a lot on what kind of job you're looking for. My situation is different from yours, as I'm 23 and I'm gonna take the degree in late September while I seem to understand you're some kind of veteran. I took programming courses during my degree course in Electronic Engineering (not computer science) but had no previous job experience, even though I've been programming for years as a passionate hobbist. Yet the company that hired me appreciated my lack of experience, because they have always been looking for young programmers. This way, they can train the newcomers with the aid of their older staff, and there's no need to get rid of previous modi operandi not in sync with the company's policy.
As to Visual/non-Visual environments, I think that while researchers and amateurs, or open-source developpers, or maybe little software houses, might like a lot the fact that you're not used to MS products, yet in the business world you're most probably finding Visual Studio on your machine, and possibly the .NET framework.
And you're still just very talented right. The difference is that you're now in your 40's, an age when your talent should have matured into professionalism, experience and proven success.Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltrain
I would say your chances depend largely on your educational background. If you have a MSc in Computer Science or some other graduate exam in science I would say your chances are fair. If you're a highschool graduate who has dabbled a little in Basic they're close to nil.
If your past experience has been in line with any of the IT domains - you can be in an advantageous situation. Softwares find applications into many domains. If there is anything particular that you have done - you can take the IT side of it. The only thing required would be having a knowledge about various systems and few technologies and the experience will give you an edge. Problem solving ability, logical reasoning and analytical skills are what employers usually look for in starters. If you can develop applications to back up your skills - that would be a plus but not a requirement essentially to get a job.
I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk#
It is not like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk#
[ Moved Thread ]
i'm 17, 18 later this month, been programming c++ and a tad of python since beginning of this year, but been doing alot of it since no job nor school, and i'm learning pretty fast, currently reading "programming windows", which after reading i hope to be doing more opengl and more of the core language
but how good do i need to be to get a job? i havn't seen many jobs that i quaify for, where should i look for a job? i live in london btw
Ive found that the area of programming is very lucrative in the time I have been hunting for that perfect entry level position. Ive been programming a bit in different languages ranging from Visual Basic, C#, Javascript, and C++ and i finally settled in on C++ and have studied it straight for the past 3 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3RC4n
My belief is that to get a job as an entry level developer, you have to either know someone, or get in on an internship program like in college or something. I am currently attending college for an associates degree in Computer Programming and am up for an internship with a company soon if they accept my resume and hire me.
Point being, I think that in order to get a developers job these days when the demand is so high for quality and speed as well as knowledge(analysis, logic, etc...) and the ability to apply what you have learned, you need to get your foot in the door either by knowing someone, or getting started in an internship. Unless of course your extremely good at what you do and you can build an awesome program that does something extraordinary, you document your programs very well, and you show that you can build business-class applications.
Oh, and if you can get the employer to look at these things... I think that an employer would just stick his nose in the air at anyone who doesnt have some sort of a degree and never even give em a chance to actually show what they can do. At least thats been my perception of it... Its a tough field to get into, but once your in, Im sure it can be very rewarding both knowledge wise and financially.
I'm going through a similar thing in terms of looking for a C++ entry level role and I've just turned 25, but I spent a long time in education and worked as a techie for a year.
Some advice from the UK:
1) 40/60 Jobs appreciate demos from what I can tell. The 40% are games development, a great demo seems to be a great foot in the door forcing them to look at you.
The other 60% look for the technical knowledge, including, how to use api's, call classes, call functions from classes, intricate little apps pseudo code (i.e. reversing strings in 4 different methods, find prime numbers etc.). And then OO, Inheritance, Polymorphism. Basically know your stuff (really know your stuff), the only way I have found to know it effectively is to do it practically, so I'm spending time trying to make a demo and producing small apps for myself and then spending the rest reading the C++ Primer, and just thinking about how I might go about doing things in C++.
2) It is quite feasible to be self taught, i'm doing that in C++ but have done Java at uni.
3) Non visual-c++ - i'm guessing avoiding the microsoft IDE/compiler not programming graphics/win32 and the like? - if so, then there seem to be some great jobs programming C++ on Unix/Linux, and on windows I have been hearing less companies using Visual C++, some are using Eclipse as and IDE (don't know the compiler), the last interview I went for seemed to have a number of options, developer based. - I don't use Visual C++ but keep the free version on my PC for testing purposes occasionally.
4) Try learning the STL, WIN32 API, and then try something like OpenGL. That should give you a good grounding in stuff people are looking for.
5) There is an interesting site called rentacoder.com, you might be able to find freelance home jobs on that site that you can do immediately, I always take a look, the moment you start doing projects on there, it will be invaluable to your CV (i think anyhow)
To be honest though, I'm in the middle of all this myself now, I don't know, I'm a newbie, and I certainly don't have all the answers, I'm doing most of what I said above, and it is difficult. But hey, I'm hoping it will work, and if you get anything out of it hope it works out for you.
Good luck.
I just landed my first Programming job as an intern at a company named Thorguard here in Illinois. I got it through my schooling but like goatslayer said, it helps to have demo apps you can actually show your work with. I built an address book program and built a small program that demonstrated class use of functions and variables and I think that really helped me out.
I used to be a professional programmer myself but i walked away. Too stressful TBH. Now If i wanted to get back in I doubt i could. I've been that long out the picture. For what it's worth I echo the advise of whoever it was that suggested to learn the microsoft visual stuff and .net. If you aleady have a grounding in c++ then you are already half way there. I hope you get a break.Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltrain