I think that cilu did nothing more than invited you to think...Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Payne
That did sometimes also Thomas (the Doubting/the Unbeliever) and the other Apostles as well. ;)
/Oups! I'm good to be a priest... :D
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I think that cilu did nothing more than invited you to think...Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Payne
That did sometimes also Thomas (the Doubting/the Unbeliever) and the other Apostles as well. ;)
/Oups! I'm good to be a priest... :D
yes, I know.... :) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ovidiucucu
What is happening here? I am dizzy..
Well, when I'll have my book about god published I'll send you a sign copy. It'salready written and pending for publishing. It's called the "biggest hoax: the bible".Quote:
Originally Posted by che_rish
Here is a quote from chapter 2:
I'll have it probably printed in may or june... ;)Quote:
A god that is all-knowing means a god that knows every single thing that ever was, is and ever will be. He knows what you are going to do five minutes from now on, he knows what are you thinking every moment and even knows all paths on all the atoms on the universe. I find this scary. And yet, people are talking about a divine plan. We are served this answer, “it is God’s plan”, every time we ask questions that someone – and I mean a believer – cannot answer. But those who serve you the “God’s plan” or “divine plan” cliché are unaware that a divine plan is contradictory to God’s omniscience. A plan is:
- A series of steps to be carried out or goals to be accomplished
- An arrangement scheme
- Scale drawing of a structure
A plan refers to any detailed method, formulated beforehand, for doing or making something. We make a plan for a trip, preparing for instance the road to take, the hotel to stay in and how much money can afford to spend. We make plans before building a house for instance and put it in various schemes and order lists. And we do so because our knowledge is limited. Without a plan the vacation would probably be a ruin. Imagine wanting to go somewhere to spend the vacation but just going without having in mind a destination or a place to stay. Imagine beginning to build a house without making plans. I would not stay for a minute in such a house. Without a plan we wouldn’t know were to build the foundation or how high to make the walls or where to put the windows; but all these because our knowledge is limited. An omniscient being can build a house without a plan because it knows everything. It knows where the windows are to be placed and what is the path for the electric wires. God does not require a plan since his omniscience doesn’t know uncertainty. He just knows. So a divine plan is hence out of question if we accept divine omniscience.
A good question that can be asked now is: does an omniscient God have thoughts? Someone that knows anything and everything knows his own thoughts also. For what good thoughts if he already knew everything? One might say that God knows that an apple will fall from the tree at a certain moment, but still thinking about it. The question is what good to think about it? Maybe change it to make it fall some other time? If so that means God already knew he would change it, since he knows everything from eternity to eternity. Nothing is hidden to him. There is no hazard; there is no change of plan since he already would knew the changes. He would knew that he think about changing the moment the apple falls from the tree, so what good thinking about it? It is most likely that an omniscient God would not require thoughts since they have no meaning to him. An omniscient being is handicapped by its own knowledge.
An omniscient God would know his own decisions in the future. He shouldn’t have any decision to make or change something. Otherwise it means that he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. As already said he probably can’t even think. And since he cannot do anything it is probable that he might not exist at all.
God’s omniscience is contradictory with other attributes assigned to him. If God is omniscient he cannot know reactionary states, like feelings. Love, hate, fear, frustration, disappointment and despair are unknown to God. You fear something because you don’t know how something is going to end. You feel disappointment because you expected something to end in some way and your expectations were not met; and this also because you didn’t know how they are going to end. But God knows everything; he knows the end of every action so there is no disappointment for him; nor any other reactionary state.
Actually, the antitheist have argued that the necessarily omniscient, necessarily omnipotent and necessarily omni benevolent God does not exist. Their argument can be formulated like this:
This states an inconsistency between necessary omniscience and necessary omnipotence. If God is omniscient he needs to understand these concepts fully. But God as an omnipotent being cannot fall into the weakness of such experiences. Therefore either the premises are not true, so God is not omniscient or omnipotent or both, or such God does not exist. There were argues of this antitheist argument that say God can posses such concepts by directly perceiving the content of human consciousness. The problem with this objection is that it makes God dependant on human existence and the experiences of humans. But one of the other attributes of God is self-existence; he does not require anything else to exist. Thus the contra argument fails. It had also been said that God can know fear, frustration and despair by imagining or inferring what would it be for a creature to have such feelings. But this contradicts the omniscience of God, for he knows all things just as they are, without the need or use of logic. God never comes to know a proposition by inferring it from another. Hence, this counter argument also fails. To dismiss the argument one has to prove that the proposition stated above doesn’t hold.Quote:
For any s, s fully comprehends the concepts fear, frustration, and despair only if s has actually experienced fear, frustration and despair.
so this means existence and nonexistence are the same things for God?
What God?! Don't you understand there is no super-natural God? ;) Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G.
You need to read Oolon Colluphid 's tome "That about wraps it up for God."Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
See the Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy for further information.
You should read (if you already haven't) Ishmael An Adventure of the Mind and Spirit by Daniel Quinn and Letters from the Earth by Mark Twain. Very interesting takes on humanism and religion.
I take it your an atheist?
You should be careful... "plan" might not be the best translation... instead of "it's God's plan" it might be meant as "God knows what will become of you". Those two statements could mean the same thing to the layman but have totally different weights in your discussion.
//I'd like to read your book when you get it finished! :)
Blasphemer you are not MacGyver!! Fellows, let's get the pitchforks and the torch and let's hunt this pagan down!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G.
Well I am an atheist myself. What I meant was, even God exists, he can not do anything out of his will, because he does not have will, and even he has, he already knows what will happen, so nothing there to control, and in all, God is just as passive as stone. So it is just the same as God (as in common sense or as in the mind of religious man) does not and can not exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
I have a super shield made of chewing gum!! nothing can damage my super shield!!Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHero
Letters from the Earth and The Mysterious Stranger by Twain. (Good)Quote:
Originally Posted by gurleygirl
Ishmael (Didn't think much of it. His thinking seemed kind of naive.)
I'm wonder what's all about this wonder-chewing-gum... :sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G.
People, don't you know? MacGuyver is dead. His place was taken by MacDonalds.
MacGuyver is immortal. He can only be killed by some guy named McCleod carrying a long sword.Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
Tom can you speak latin?