Yeah, either God does not exist, in which case (1) is wrong, or He does, in which case (2) is wrong at least some of the time, since God is omniscient and surely He has read that sign. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
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Yeah, either God does not exist, in which case (1) is wrong, or He does, in which case (2) is wrong at least some of the time, since God is omniscient and surely He has read that sign. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
The only way a person can truly believe and be convinced that God exists is when they come to realize that the Bible itself is divine rather than human in origin. The Bible is actually a very fascinating book if you carefully study it. It's filled with lots of deep meaning.
Read Psalm 22. This definitely portrays the coming of Jesus Christ and his death on the cross.
Read about Abraham's test in Genesis 22. Isn't this a picture of God's sacrifice of his *only son* Jesus. Because of this sacrifice all nations on the earth are blessed and the birth of God's holy people are born.
Read Exodus where God commands Israel to sacrifice a Lamb and put the lamb's blood on the doorpost of their homes to prevent the angel of death to come into their homes. (This is the Jewish Passover)
In many other parts of the Bible, Israel was commanded to sacrifice spotless lambs for their sins.
Notice that Jesus is considered the "Lamb of God" and the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Is it any coincidence that Jesus Christ was crucified exactly on the Jewish Passover Day? I don't think so.
I could probably go on and on and on...
truth Audio pronunciation of "truth" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trth)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
n. pl. truths (trthz, trths)
1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3. Sincerity; integrity.
4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
5.
1. Reality; actuality.
2. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.
God exists.
You are not Him.
Which makes me wonder... If God is omniscient, he knew that people would turn away from Him and he would have to sacrifice his own son for us. So why did God created the human specie in the first place, an act that led to the murdering of Jesus. Any loving father would do exactly the oposite, i.e. anything to save his son.Quote:
Notice that Jesus is considered the "Lamb of God" and the perfect sacrifice for our sins.
Ok, here is the reason Cilu.
I will explain to you what is going on here. Yes God is omniscient, but being a perfect being he is also perfectly righteous. Since this is so this means that every single sin that has ever been committed and ever will be committed in this universe must be paid for.
So what does this mean?
The Bible says that the "Wages of sin is death". Romans 6:23
Obviously this is referring to "eternal death". Every sin from the smallest to the greatest has a consequence. The more I sin, the more wages I store up, the less I sin, the less wages I store up. Therefore the only way for God to save the human race is to carry out this exact punishment. God would have to become a perfect human substitute, a stand in for our sins. Therefore if I become a believer in Jesus Christ then it means that Jesus Christ had paid for every single sin in my life from my physical birth all the way to my physical death.
When Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross, not only did he suffer physical death, but also eternal death for every single sin for all those He had chosen to save. Let me explain a little more.
Christ suffered the true death, eternal death which was equivalent to me spending an eternity under God's wrath. How God did this, no one knows, but his suffering must have started somewhere in the Garden of Gethsemane when he was sweating large drops and when he cried out to God to let the cup pass from him. (Matthew 26:38-39) Christ was drinking the cup of God's fierce wrath. Therefore if I am a born again believer in Jesus Christ it means that there is nothing God can convict me of during the time of God's perfect judgment. I am seen as blameless and spotless because through Jesus Christ I had already passed through eternal damnation for my sins. It would be unjust of God to convict me for sins that have already been paid for.
If Christ never paid for anyones sins, none of us would be turning to Him or seeking him through our own will. We do not have the cability to turn to Christ unless God draws us to Him. John 6:44, Romans 3:10-12 This is impossible to do becase we are all spiritually dead due to sin and unless God opens our spiritual eyes we will remain blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
This is why the Bible also emphasizes that we are not saved by our works or anything we do. It is all by God's sovereign grace.
(Ephesians 2:8-9)
The reason why some people may reject God all their life could be due to the fact that their sins have not been paid for by Christ at the cross. If Christ had paid for every single sin in this universe then nobody would be going to **** and everyone would be seeking God and going to heaven. But there are some that do seek after God and some that don't. Those that do seek after God are those whom God has called and chosen. They are those whose sins have been paid for by Christ at the cross. If I am chosen by God then it means that sometime in my life I will come to an understanding of God's message and come to believe in Jesus Christ and repent of my sins. If you have a desire to seek after God then by all means do so because it means that God is drawing you to Himself. There is no one who will end up in **** and say to God "I truly tried seeking you".
Of course a loving Father would do anything to protect and save his only son. However, God demonstrates his total unfailing, unconditional love toward us through the sacrifice of his son. In so doing he reveals who He truly is. God is love and love unconditional. This is how God reveals Himself to us and how we can understand Him and His main characteristic. How can we understand who or what God is without demonstration? It's one thing to say God is love. It's another thing to demonstrate what that really means.
1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
Rigel - isn't there an implicit assumption in your statements that God is the god of Christianity and that this is somehow the 'true' god? Why should this be so? Other religions have diifferent gods. Why are theirs not as valid as yours?
I've studied the scriptures meticulously for a very long time. Out of all my studying I have come to only one conclusion and that is it cannot be that the Bible is human in origin. I am convinced that no human author is behind the writing of the scriptures. I am convinced it is absolutely divine in origin. The more I study, the more convinced I get. It is a very intelligently written book with great depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by John E
This is why I believe that the Bible can be none other but from God Himself. Therefore when the scriptures say "There is no other God but me". I'm not going to second guess that phrase.
You've obviously put many hours into this - but other scholars point to contradictions in the bible, as well as the fact that it contains many different writing styles. What can be the explanation for this? Did God deliberately put those errors in to make us think the bible was written by humans?
The essence of the scriptures remains the same. Many "apparent" contradictions can be explained when you compare scripture with scripture.
For instance the four new testament gospels each tell of a seemingly different story. But they are seen from different angles. One sees a car accident from one point of view on the ground. The other sees it from looking out the balcony of a window. The other person who is in the car accident sees it as a passenger or driver. They are all correct but seen in different ways, when you combine them you get the entire picture.
The Bible originated from Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. In order to remain an accurate translation we need to remain accurate to the original manuscripts. Throughout time some scholars may have better translated a certain phrase or verse but these scribal errors are far and few in between. The Biblical text and the message of the scriptures are preserved and remain the same just as it did many thousands of years ago.
Funny that the more I studied it, the more I understood it has nothing "devine" in it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
I'm sorry, but this does not satisfy me. We are talking about God and Jesus before the creation from Genesis. Now, there is only God, Jesus and this Holly Spirit (which looks pretty spooky to me). So who can God love at this point? Jesus and the Holly Spirit, for there is nothing else. And what does God decide to do? Create some creatures that would turn against him and for whose repent he would have to sacrifice his son, who he loved unconditional. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me at all. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
No problem. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
Rigel - I'm quite interested to find out how you arrived at your conclusions. When you said...
I don't understand this. Why can it not be so that the bible was originated by human authors? Is it too complex? Is it too informed? What aspect of the Bible convinces you that it is God's work when say, the Koran, an equally detailed and informed work, is presumably not God's doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
Careful study...Quote:
Originally Posted by John E
God speaks in parables and those parables contain deep hidden meaning. You may say "But any book can contain deep hidden meaning". Study it carefully and maybe you might understand what I'm talking about. :)
Read Psalm 22... tell me that isn't talking about the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Read Isaiah 53... tell me this isn't a reference to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Did someone insert these passages after Jesus was crucified in order to convince people that God is real?
Even if the passages were written when they are claimed to have been written, this is no proof that they weren't written by men. You might argue that they are uncannily accurate predictions (which is debatable, since they are very vague). But other men have made startlingly accurate predictions. Nostradamus is the most obvious one - but nobody claims that Nostradamus was God.
John 1:51 "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man."
Curious statement Jesus would make about Himself.
(Jesus is the son of Man - Matthew 16:13)
Until we read in the book of Genesis.
Genesis 28:12 "And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it."
Hmm... So Jesus is effectively saying He is that ladder Jacob dreamed about that leads men from earth to heaven. Jesus is the only way from earth to heaven.