Why [did you choose] C# ?

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Originally Posted by cjard

Didnt you hear? MS have taken a keen interest in this thread, saw the folly of their ways and now are drawing up the next version of these languages, which will be an effective merge of the two.

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You are thinking of C++/Java ... Microsoft called it C#. Do keep up.
:D

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but I think it is undeniable that C++/CLI has a few nice features which are not in C#.

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There is no denying that C++/CLI has some features that are not available in C#, just as there are features in C# that are not available in C++/CLI. Even the other .Net languages (VB.Net, Cobol.Net, etc.) each have nice features of their own.

My issue with with people who say that C++/CLI should be used over C# in the development of Business Applications. I have seen no compelling reason whatsoever to support this. On the other hand, there is compelling evidence that the simplicity (you can even read this as restrictions) of C# can reduce development and maintenance costs significantly.

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

On the other hand, there is compelling evidence that the simplicity (you can even read this as restrictions) of C# can reduce development and maintenance costs significantly.

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Yes, as I repeatedly said - for example in post #118:

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Originally Posted by Zaccheus

But as I've said, these benefits [of c++/cli] are outweighed by far bigger benefits found in C#.

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We are in agreement about that.

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Originally Posted by Zaccheus

You are thinking of C++/Java ... Microsoft called it C#. Do keep up.
:D

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Naww, C++/Java was their J# language.. This new one is going to be called CplusHarp and it will be sponsored by Guinness. And youll only be allowed to code it if you have a beard.

For more information, write to:

Microsoft
[There is only] One [way, the] Microsoft Way
Redmond..

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

There is no denying that C++/CLI has some features that are not available in C#, just as there are features in C# that are not available in C++/CLI. Even the other .Net languages (VB.Net, Cobol.Net, etc.) each have nice features of their own.

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I'd love to know what nice things VB.NET does that C# doesnt. Retarded loops, default instances, an IDE that defies most of the case conventions that MS lay down are features, but i wouldnt proclaim them nice ;)

Ooh, no wait.. I did think of something! If you reference Microsoft.VisualBasic then you get a nice way of making your app single instance.. Your app registers a remoting server on startup, successive attempts to register the same server fail (the app is already running) and best of all, the existing app receives an event that someone tried to start the app again, and the eventargs detail the command line params passed to the new instance.
Now thats cool! (avail in C# by reffing MS.VB)

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Originally Posted by cjard

Naww, C++/Java was their J# language.. This new one is going to be called CplusHarp and it will be sponsored by Guinness. And youll only be allowed to code it if you have a beard.

For more information, write to:

Microsoft
[There is only] One [way, the] Microsoft Way
Redmond..

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:D :D :D

Hi again.

I've decided to go for C++/CLI.

I'm going to write as much as possible in native classic C++ and the CLI parts will be as few as possible and kept isolated in libraries. So although newly developed the application will be fitted into C++/CLI as if being ported legacy code. The application then becomes as portable as possible (at the C++ source level) while still having full access to managed Windows.

I first thought of mainly use the managed part of C++/CLI but was discouraged by the fact that not even Sutter, chief architect of C++/CLI, recommends this, and because the Visual C++ team isn't going to position C++/CLI as a strong alternative to C#. In my view this means that C++/CLI is never going to "fly" as a managed language in its own right. It's likely to stay a "glue" language.

So in principle I picked classic C++ over C#. Although I have yet to write a single line of C# I know what I'm doing because I have extensive experience from Java (and of C++ of course). The relative merits of classic C++ in relation to "modern" languages like C# and Java is not the topic of this thread but in my personal view (not negotiable :) ) the latter are quite hyped.

Thank you everybody for this discussion!

_uj, maybe you've already mentioned it in the previous 11 pages of discussion, but what kind of app is this?

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Originally Posted by Arjay

_uj, maybe you've already mentioned it in the previous 11 pages of discussion, but what kind of app is this?

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It's Molecular Dynamics. You can watch in 3D how molecules interact with each others. It's a little like a game actually. There's both computer graphics involved and heavy floating point calculations to simulate how the molecules are moving around.

It's a hobby project I've been considering for many years and I've developed a prototype in Java but now I'm going to pursue it full-time for half a year first and then I'll decide how to continue. I'm a great fan of Java and an early adopter but somehow it never fully delivers for what I'm attempting. This experience has made me reluctant to continue on the managed path using C#.

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Originally Posted by _uj

It's Molecular Dynamics. You can watch in 3D how molecules interact with each others. It's a little like a game actually. There's both computer graphics involved and heavy floating point calculations to simulate how the molecules are moving around.

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Now that.. sounds cooool; can we play with it when it's done? Are you looking to turn it into a PhD, or do you really do this instead of watching tv, or playing squash?

Incidentally; had you mentioned this, I dont think I would have advocated C# despite personally preferring it to all other languages for my current tasks.. For this kind of math, I'd choose the same route you have.. Majority C++

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I'm going to pursue it full-time for half a year

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If you end up with some consultancy work (cause everybody's gotta eat;)) and they are mandating C#, I'm sure you can find your needed answers here :D

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I'm a great fan of Java and an early adopter but somehow it never fully delivers for what I'm attempting.

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There's an old adage round where I come from that I generally apply to some physical manipulation of the world; "If it's hard, youre doing it wrong, or using the wrong tool"
While there are exceptions to every rule, i've found this applies in software nearly as much as it applies to winding a rusted nut off the car or refitting a windscreen.. Just a thought..

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Originally Posted by cjard

Now that.. sounds cooool; can we play with it when it's done? Are you looking to turn it into a PhD, or do you really do this instead of watching tv, or playing squash?

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I'm working on a second degree in Engineering Biology so that's how I got interested in this. The idea is to be able to test drug candidates (molecules) for biological activity (how they interact with protein molecules) in the computer insted of chemically. This is much more efficient so there's a commersial interest if it works really well.

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Incidentally; had you mentioned this, I dont think I would have advocated C# despite personally preferring it to all other languages for my current tasks.. For this kind of math, I'd choose the same route you have.. Majority C++

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Well, maybe I should but I didn't want to direct the discussion too much. Anyway I think I now know the main differences between C++/CLI and C# and what kind of applications are suitable for each.

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There's an old adage round where I come from that I generally apply to some physical manipulation of the world; "If it's hard, youre doing it wrong, or using the wrong tool"

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Or I'm not using the tool properly. As I mentioned I already have a prototype in Java which just isn't slick enougth. If it doesn't get better in C++ then at least I know I'm the one to blame.

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Originally Posted by _uj

I'm working on a second degree in Engineering Biology so that's how I got interested in this. The idea is to be able to test drug candidates (molecules) for biological activity (how they interact with protein molecules) in the computer insted of chemically.

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It reminds me of an article I read in New Scientist years ago, about a team at cambridge using computers to molecularly model the hardness of materials; they were looking for things harder thann diamond for the cutting and drilling industry.. Did well too; proposing several new formulae some time before the more classical techniques of working such things out produced any results.. Good luck with it!

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Well, maybe I should but I didn't want to direct the discussion too much.

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How cruel..

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Or I'm not using the tool properly. As I mentioned I already have a prototype in Java which just isn't slick enougth. If it doesn't get better in C++ then at least I know I'm the one to blame.

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Dont forget that slickness requires the brilliance of diversity; Vista is slick. OSX is slick. Neither are the child of one [wo]man ;)

Stick to being the brains behind the app; that's a far more rare resource than the "art-asses" who can come alonf after and put a pretty skin on it ;)

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Originally Posted by cjard

Stick to being the brains behind the app; that's a far more rare resource than the "art-asses" who can come alonf after and put a pretty skin on it ;)

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I want both. I want to stay on top of theory of course but I also want people to feel this is a very professional application. I found it increasingly difficult to invest more and more of my time when I wasn't 100% satisfied with the look&feel. Okay Java really has improved the last couple of years but I always found myself waiting for the next version when feature X hopefully should be fixed so that some corner of the program would work smoothly.

So I said enougth is enougth. I give up the Java portability and do something I can be proud of and feel good about on one platform instead. And it will be semi-portable because the core will be in ISO C++ and who knows, some day also C++/CLI may be widely available. And the Java prototype is in no way wasted. I've learned OO techniques and patterns, and I have the core simulaton algoritms tested and ready to just lift over.

I'm glad I came to this decision. This is fun again. :)

Hi,

I chose C # because I had to basically. I am in IT school working on a software development degree and this semester I had the option to choose between web client server programming (html javascript and ASP) or c#. web client server programming was canceled. The only other programming class available was C#. And I definitely didn't want to go the networking direction. I am glad I am taking this because I am more and more fascinated with it every time I use it. I already know HTML pretty well so I am glad this class worked out. Much better for my resume. Next semester I have the option of Java or Visual Basic. my choice is to learn java which will be taught on a suse linux platform.