Ratio of VC/C & VB

Hey, I still seem to be the only person using most of the time VC and only occaisonnally VB ;)

My programming experience is somewhat strange... ;)

I started with BBC Basic on a BBC computer.
Moved onto BBC Basic for PC (which is really not what anyone would want to do :p)
Moved to Turbo Pascal (I think they were at 5.0 when I started and I used it till long after TP7 came out)
Programmed in TP6 / assembler for some small games (DOS games with memory extender etc. in the times before Win 3.0 :p)
Got into OO when TP7 came out, although it was already present in the language since 5.5.
Then I went to university... Miranda (functional language), Turing (like Pascal), Java and C. (strange, I didn't learn any C++ :p)
I actually got really into Java and wrote a 80K lines project in it during a group project.
Then some work on a NEC supercomputer in C ;) That made me really hate C, because I could not handle all those memory leaks :p
Then I started "real" work and my first project was ATL :p Well, I took a crash course in C++, ATL and Windows programming (involving mostly me and my boss shouting at each other ;) ).
Since my project was an ATL control, I had to write some simple driver programs that used it, so the first choice was VB.

If you've seen what COM code looks like in VC and and VB, you whish you could use VB for everything :p But then again, calling the Windows API from VB is an unnecessary pain... And custom data structures are usually much more efficient in VC / STL than corresponding things in VB.

Go VB, go VB, go VB! :)

Well I sometimes have to go back to VC++ in order accomodate the more complication APIs. Not that I cannot do it in VB but it is easier to be done in VC++.

-Cool Bizs

Well, hello to you all programmers who have entered the Hall of Fame! Why! Most of you here have programmed in at least 1 - 2 other languages other than Visual Basic, Visual C++ and Java!
Pascal, eh? :p

Well, unlike you guys, I started programming from the ground up :

I started by learning the 1s and 0s and how motherboard and the computer and electricity circuits can understand these currents, and after that, I moved on to machine language, and after that, to assembly......

No no.....ha ha...unfortunately, I started programming a bit too late in life.(at the age of 15.5 years old)
Intiallly, I started with Visual Basic, but because I've absolute 0% of programming experience before, I got totally scared and wet my pants at the sight of 3 - 6 lines of short simple code!!!!!!
These lines were :(I still remember them)

PHP Code:

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cmdOk.Enabled = True
cmdRadio.Enabled = True
cmdMove.Enabled = True
cmdCancel.Enabled = True
cmdClick.Enabled = True 


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Can u believe that???!!!

After that, I gave up Visual Basic, and went straight on to learn C++. The reason why I started with Visual Basic was that I had actually thought that Visual C++ is related to VB, and u need to know VB before you can do anything ib C++!!!!!!! :eek:

But I discovered ths wasn't true one night, so I went on to C++. And it was **** at this time, man! I spend a great deal of afternoons, days and nights studying this from books(no one to teach me) and at Chapter 8, I gave up and went to borrow some new books, and started at the simple, beginning chapters.......until one day......the Lord took pity on me, and gave me such a force that propel me to the level of a novice programmer.(I was ******* Programmer before that)
Kinda sad, but........

Anyway, here I am now.....at least I'm able to write sensible programs in C++ and MFC. :)
Plus, now that I have a somewhat acceptable grip on C++, most of the VB code I've seen are simple to me. :) Much more simpler!

And though I don't really like Java.......aye~! I can't scold or curse this language in public, cos' if I need to ask Java questions here, the Java programmers will not help me if they know I curse the language. :):D

Visual Basic programs are indeed fast to create : that's the strongest point in VB. All I need to worry about is the logic and flow of my program, not the technical details like windowing and such. In Visual C++, windowing and such, in additon to the flow and memory management stuff, makes me lose all my hair and such. How sad!
Visual Basic is better for creating programs like database applications, business suites and such. After all, business programs need to be upgraded to the next version very fast to meet competition in the market, and VB can cater to that.
Whereas the VB programmers are already adding the bells and whistles to the program, the poor Visual C++ programmers are still looking blankly at their Debug windows in the IDE enviroment, and worrying whether they have the time to spend with their kids and wives(or wife) and family and friends and such.
Aye~!
Besides, VB is also better for computer hobbyists : those guys who're somewhere between the level of novices and expert programmers. They can create fun programs for their personal use etc.
Plus : because VB doesn't heave all the flexibility on the programmer, VB programs tend to have less bugs than programs based in C/C++.

But when talking about programs like Norton Systemworks and system ultilites, programs like Bryce 5 and Adobe Photoshop, game programs like Quake, Diablo or WarCraft III and such......there's no way you can create them in VB. Maybe you can.......but how natural is that? How efficient can the resulting programs be? Visual C++ is the only tool which can achieve this, where low-level details, optimization, speed and performance are concerned.

The man is the man : and like Xeon the Man of all Men said before : Real man code in C++. :)

But that doesn't mean to say Visual Basic ain't good.
It ROCKS too. :):D

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Xeon:
Visual Basic programs are indeed fast to create : that's the strongest point in VB. ...

... Visual Basic is better for creating programs like database applications, business suites and such. After all, business programs need to be upgraded to the next version very fast to meet competition in the market, and VB can cater to that.
Whereas the VB programmers are already adding the bells and whistles to the program, the poor Visual C++ programmers are still looking blankly at their Debug windows in the IDE enviroment, and worrying whether they have the time to spend with their kids and wives(or wife) and family and friends and such.
...

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Agree. But somethimes, this is also VB's weakest point. Some VB programmers tend to be less careful in planning. Because they can easily change course, they can afford to care less.

VB and C++ don't solve the same problems. VB is great for a quick GUI for purposes of rapid prototyping, or for a frontend for a larger application NOT written in VB that exposes itself through COM interfaces.

The two biggest strengths of C++ is Object Oriented programming and generic programming. For the first time, in .Net, VB is object oriented. It never was before. I doubt if it will ever support generic programming. I can't imagine trying to write and maintain a large system in VB.

Jeff

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Originally posted by jfaust
I can't imagine trying to write and maintain a large system in VB.

Jeff

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VC may outrun VB but I'm sure VB can still be used in large system. I think that's one purpose why VB has also been given so much power.

Sonu, How you become Moderator?

Hi All,
I just seen this voting and got impressed how you guys are doing. Great Job!!!

Well I am too working in VC++ since 5 1/2 years and getting more interested day by day.

Obviously VC++ is more powerful than VB as VB was developed in C++\VC++. But for some applications VB is pretty good for desiging GUI.

I know little about VB/Java. But I think now we all VC++ guys may need to update for VC#. Am I right?

As market is not good, and I am badly looking for good break.


I am very much pleasure to share this with you all.

Oh! I forgot to tell one thing. I am originally from INDIA. But now I am in USA.

Narayana Murty.

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Originally posted by Narayana Murty
Sonu, How you become Moderator?

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I talked with the sitemanager !!

-Sonu

My! U talk to the Site Manager? Brad Jones! :)

Hmm.......maybe if I spam his mail box with zillions of e-mails asking him to make me Assistant Site Manager, he might agree. :D:D:D:D:D

I use both languages and agree with most of the characterizations in this thread. I do have to comment, however on one of the links:

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You may want to read this.

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(Part of C++ FAQ Lite, Copyright © 1991-2002, Marshall Cline, [email protected])

while it is interesting to read it is chalk full of inaccurate statements. Apparently the author was under the impression that if he didn't know how to do something in VB it couldn't be done. This is especially true as you get close to the bottom of the page. Some may call this a cheap shot since I don't offer any corrections. So be it, I don't have the time to correct so may mistatements.

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Some VB programmers tend to be less careful in planning. Because they can easily change course, they can afford to care less.

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This post hit on one of the most interesting phenomona in programming that I have seen. As time has passed, programming has been dumbed down to the point almost anyone can do it. It used to be MUCH HARDER without such things as IDEs, source debuggers & etc. What I found interesting is the reason for this.

Over th course of my carreer (just over 30 years now), I've watched programmers interact with business managers. As demand for computers (and programming) increased, the pool of capable people became overwhelmed. This led to considerable "boss abuse" by programmers. In the past it was very common for programmers to keep their own hours, dress to their own preference, determine what programs to write and be generally unreliable. I once knw a programmer who refused to work for any company that didn't let mim smoke pot in his office! And, he got away with it for years!!

This created an intolerable situation for business executives. The result was a large push for simpler languages and even (ugh) CASE tools. The result is a large number of people writing programs that have no idea what they are doing. They have no concept of what a computer does or how it goes about it.

Many programmers (especially VB and VBA) think that the there is some fairly direct relationship between the number of commands in a program and the amount of work the computer will do to accomplish them!

In any case, the result has been a lot of really poor software. It is the main reason, IMHO that computers run at gigabyte speeds with huge memories and yet perform no better than earlier versions with 1% the power.

Anyway enough of may rambling rant. Thanks for reading it.

Wow! A programmer with over 30 years of programming experience! U must definetly be a grand old daddy who've seen lots of programming stuff happening in the real world since Day 1, right? :D

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The result is a large number of people writing programs that have no idea what they are doing. They have no concept of what a computer does or how it goes about it.

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Hmmm......I'm guilty of this.........how sad! Although I use Visual C++, I rely totally on MFC and high level programing platforms libraries, like the Win32 API.
Although some of you may consider the API to be low level, I think those really low-level suff is about understanding how the computer really works, and how the OS manages memory at the lowest level, how variables are really stored in memory and how the OS can actually detect them etc.

But then, I guess I never have to learn all this, though. Aye~! Times have changed.......but I know darn well, though.........that without truly understanding about the lowest-most foundation of any topic or subject, u can never become an expert in it.
Sad but true. :):D:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Xeon
Wow! A programmer with over 30 years of programming experience! U must definetly be a grand old daddy who've seen lots of programming stuff happening in the real world since Day 1, right? :D
...

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Definitely a guru.

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billwilson3:
As demand for computers (and programming) increased, the pool of capable people became overwhelmed. This led to considerable "boss abuse" by programmers. In the past it was very common for programmers to keep their own hours, dress to their own preference, determine what programs to write and be generally unreliable. I once knw a programmer who refused to work for any company that didn't let mim smoke pot in his office! And, he got away with it for years!!

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This is almost similar to what had happened to me more than ten years ago (refer to my 2nd post in this thred). The only difference is, I was not the Boss.

Thanks God, VB (Q/Turbo Basics at that time) came into being. Anyone can create a programs without necessarily understanding the heart, the kidneys, the intestines of the computer.

Don't care what is behind the scene. Don't care if VB do it in 5 minutes when VC can do the same job in 4 minutes only. For us (or maybe most of) VB programmers, the most important thing -- solve the problem the easiest way.

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Sonu:
I talked with the sitemanager !!

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Sonu,

Any pressure added to being a Moderator?

LISP ALL THE WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

Just kidding. :D Anyways, there is a simple answer to this question of whether VC++ or VB is the choicer language. You see, in general, most people believe that the VB language is much simpler than VC++ and is hence made for newbies. Thus, to appear intelligent and cool, VC++ is the better path. :cool:

Fierytycoon

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Thus, to appear intelligent and cool, VC++ is the better path.

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Totally true, Fiery pal!
Great minds think alike! :):D
Wow! ;)

One of the reasons why I chose Visual C++ was cos' I wanna be a real man in front of those young li'l gurls. :):D

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Originally posted by aio
Sonu,

Any pressure added to being a Moderator?

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Yeah, of course. As a moderator you have to see the threads from an another view, than a user. You have take care of all things, also reply users and check the threads....and much more.

-Sonu