Learning how to make applications

Yea, well, you don't need experience nor formal education to get a job, but when you apply for one and the potential employer has 200 candidates for one job, it will be quite easy to sift through it and reduce it by selecting only the people with the right background. And most of the time that involves ditching those who don't have experience and don't have the degrees.

There are some things that are taught at University which you'll only learn by yourself after a *lot* of experience on the job. Some examples that come to mind are HCI (human - computer interaction), Software engineering (project design, evolution, testing), large scale development and parallel computing. In my experience, people who are self-taught and don't have a mathematical background usually don't have a solid grasp of algorithmics either. These are things that are quite hard to pick up by fiddling around in your spare time, although of course it's possible.

that's why god created ba ba ba ba ba books....I admit there were somethings that were challenging but that was mostly not having the right equipment...it wasn't like I could plop down 12 grand for an AIX/SunOs/DgUx/Irix/Hpux blada blada system back then...but I got around that ;)

these days it's much cheaper ;)

Yea, but name me five people who haven't had a CS education and voluntarily pick up a book on software engineering (planning, design etc.) a book on HCI or a book about algorithmics.

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Originally posted by Yves M
Yea, but name me five people who haven't had a CS education and voluntarily pick up a book on software engineering (planning, design etc.) a book on HCI or a book about algorithmics.

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I could only name one other than myself that I knew personally. And surprise he was about 12 at the time when I meet him (I was about 16) and we were already haxoring the local community colleges sunbox where he attended some classes. I don't deny that it's a harder path, and to put it in perspective, I tell my spawn you must go to college to get somewhere.

I just think it's silly to deny someone something who obviously has the knowledge based on some ink and paper. What exactly do they use as references in college...books?

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Originally posted by Deniz
The day you put in the capital and run your own business, you can hire anyone off the street. But till that day comes, when your trying to break into the industry for the first time, unless you got some education under your belt your pretty much boned.

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then why I must have gotten boned somewhere in the past and not realized it...ohh well...

/Not just anyone off the street my friend....

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Originally posted by galathaea
Its a hard field to get into. Sometimes, some parlor tricks can get you in the job, and education is certainly one of those. Everybody wants to be a programmer these days as the machine continues its slow engulfing...

But another parlor trick that works is experience. Kind of like credit, its one of those frustrating things at first (how can I get experience when I don't have it initially), but I think if you stick at it as the year count grows, you get more and more attractive to employers. At least, I'm finding that a lot of jobs out there want experience levels, and I think many companies are turning away from just grouping together a bunch of code monkeys. It doesn't work very well.

But education, like experience, is a parlor trick. They are not always correlated with the thing that is really the goal, finding an employee that can get the work done.

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Experience is high on the mark, but so is being sharp...it's hard to fool somebody about your problem solving skills, unless it's a fool that's asking you the questions. As gal stated it's about getting it done, can you do it, yes, all that I care about.

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Originally posted by Mick
I could only name one other than myself that I knew personally. And surprise he was about 12 at the time when I meet him (I was about 16) and we were already haxoring the local community colleges sunbox where he attended some classes. I don't deny that it's a harder path, and to put it in perspective, I tell my spawn you must go to college to get somewhere.

I just think it's silly to deny someone something who obviously has the knowledge based on some ink and paper. What exactly do they use as references in college...books?

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Sure, if I found somebody who doesn't have a degree yet had the right skills and knowledge, I would hire him. Except that if I'm faced with 200 candidates and I have to weed through to get about 10 that I'm going to ask for an interview, the guy without a degree better have a heck of a CV and reference letter, otherwise he won't make the final 10. It's only these 10 that will get the opportunity to show how smart, knowledgeable etc. they are in a face-to-face interview. The other 190 not.

It's a cruel world ;)

Is anyone gonna answer my question by the way?

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Originally posted by NewbieWay
Is anyone gonna answer my question by the way?

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thought I did or at least gave you my opinion back in the early postings. The problem is your question is really general. But c++ and java would be a good start. Get yourself a compiler and some books on the lanquages and operating system(s) you are going to develop under, and start writing code. Or take some courses, college or techincal institute wise.

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ahh let me that the next time I check my bank account....

to the OP.. if you want to run the gambit...then c++, java and kiddie script VB...

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You'll just make yourself more competitive in the market with some decorated degree.

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Does GPA matters for grad from CS background? What you guys think - will that float number count in getting jobs. In fact how many of you were asked "Whats your CGPA" in job interview and what was their impression after hearing the answer?