Re: "Stay hungry, stay foolish" by Steve Jobs
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Originally Posted by cilu
I agree. You have a point here. But when the prophets of God, and the priests of the Only-True-Living-God start telling us who to tolerate and who to kill, what do read and what to kept away off, who to marry and who not, what movies to watch and how to dress I get really mad.
That's what I referred to when I said religion has been the reason for several atrocities too..
Re: "Stay hungry, stay foolish" by Steve Jobs
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Originally Posted by kirants
That's what I referred to when I said religion has been the reason for several atrocities too..
Its not only religion. Nearly every philosophy can be used to guide people into hate and intolerance. But we are able to look behind that stuff. In that facts religion was / is misused for political reasons, in interpreting it to people by power-hungry priests. One of this points of interpreting for reasons of might is that 'my god is the true and only one, all others are false prophets !' I become cold in the back, whenever I only think on such statements.
Jonny Poet :wave:
Re: "Stay hungry, stay foolish" by Steve Jobs
Hello! I would just like to share this article/investigation about God, Fate/Destiny, Omniscience. :)
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Predestinarian view. The view that God’s exercise of his foreknowledge is infinite and that he does foreordain the course and destiny of all individuals is known as predestinarianism. Its advocates reason that God’s divinity and perfection require that he be omniscient (all-knowing), not only respecting the past and present but also regarding the future. According to this concept, for him not to foreknow all matters in their minutest detail would evidence imperfection. Examples such as the case of Isaac’s twin sons, Esau and Jacob, are presented as evidence of God’s foreordaining creatures before their birth (Ro 9:10-13); and texts such as Ephesians 1:4, 5 are cited as evidence that God foreknew and foreordained the future of all his creatures even before the start of creation.
To be correct, this view would, of course, have to harmonize with all the factors previously mentioned, including the Scriptural presentation of God’s qualities, standards, and purposes, as well as his righteous ways in dealing with his creatures. (Re 15:3, 4) We may properly consider, then, the implications of such a predestinarian view.
This concept would mean that, prior to creating angels or earthling man, God exercised his powers of foreknowledge and foresaw and foreknew all that would result from such creation, including the rebellion of one of his spirit sons, the subsequent rebellion of the first human pair in Eden (Ge 3:1-6; Joh 8:44), and all the bad consequences of such rebellion down to and beyond this present day. This would necessarily mean that all the wickedness that history has recorded (the crime and immorality, oppression and resultant suffering, lying and hypocrisy, false worship and idolatry) once existed, before creation’s beginning, only in the mind of God, in the form of his foreknowledge of the future in all of its minutest details.
If the Creator of mankind had indeed exercised his power to foreknow all that history has seen since man’s creation, then the full weight of all the wickedness thereafter resulting was deliberately set in motion by God when he spoke the words: "Let us make man." (Ge 1:26) These facts bring into question the reasonableness and consistency of the predestinarian concept; particularly so, since the disciple James shows that disorder and other vile things do not originate from God’s heavenly presence but are "earthly, animal, demonic" in source.—Jas 3:14-18.
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Infinite exercise of foreknowledge? The argument that God’s not foreknowing all future events and circumstances in full detail would evidence imperfection on his part is, in reality, an arbitrary view of perfection. Perfection, correctly defined, does not demand such an absolute, all-embracing extension, inasmuch as the perfection of anything actually depends upon its measuring up completely to the standards of excellence set by one qualified to judge its merits. Ultimately, God’s own will and good pleasure, not human opinions or concepts, are the deciding factors as to whether anything is perfect.—De 32:4; 2Sa 22:31; Isa 46:10.
To illustrate this, God’s almightiness is undeniably perfect and is infinite in capacity. (1Ch 29:11, 12; Job 36:22; 37:23) Yet his perfection in strength does not require him to use his power to the full extent of his omnipotence in any or in all cases. Clearly he has not done so; if he had, not merely certain ancient cities and some nations would have been destroyed, but the earth and all in it would have been obliterated long ago by God’s executions of judgment, accompanied by mighty expressions of disapproval and wrath, as at the Flood and on other occasions. (Ge 6:5-8; 19:23-25, 29; compare Ex 9:13-16; Jer 30:23, 24.) God’s exercise of his might is therefore not simply an unleashing of limitless power but is constantly governed by his purpose and, where merited, tempered by his mercy.—Ne 9:31; Ps 78:38, 39; Jer 30:11; La 3:22; Eze 20:17.
Similarly, if, in certain respects, God chooses to exercise his infinite ability of foreknowledge in a selective way and to the degree that pleases him, then assuredly no human or angel can rightly say: "What are you doing?" (Job 9:12; Isa 45:9; Da 4:35) It is therefore not a question of ability, what God can foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for "with God all things are possible." (Mt 19:26) The question is what God sees fit to foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for "everything that he delighted to do he has done."—Ps 115:3.
// The continuation of this article has the sub-topic entitled "Selective Exercise of Foreknowledge" which shows an alternative to predestinarianism. If anyone is wants to see it, just let me know and I'll post it here too.
Re: "Stay hungry, stay foolish" by Steve Jobs
And why would God need to play this game ?
Re: "Stay hungry, stay foolish" by Steve Jobs
Uhm, please excuse my ignorance... but, what game are you referring to? :confused: :D
// I guess I'm trying to see if you're referring to the topic of the article I posted?
Re: "Stay hungry, stay foolish" by Steve Jobs
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Clearly he has not done so; if he had, not merely certain ancient cities and some nations would have been destroyed,
Referring to this... why would God do all this ? Doesn't that make God sound too human ???
Re: "Stay hungry, stay foolish" by Steve Jobs
Yes, exactly. God's perfection in strength does not require him to use his power to the full extent. Same with his power to foresee the future. He can see the future if he chose to, and when he sees fit. But it doesn't mean that he has planned all things ahead for us. We are accountable with our own actions/decisions in life.
