Thanks for the info guys.
Fierytycoon
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Thanks for the info guys.
Fierytycoon
Nothing against VB - but it's for kiddies. :p
[sarcasm]
I guess if a C++ developer is a real man, is an assembly programmer a God? ;)
[/sarcasm]
C/C++/Assembly Programmer,
James Bernard Schumacher III
P.S. - I can read any C++ program, but make me look at VB code and I'm lost. (Never written a single line at all.) I can understand it somewhat, but I couldn't write it. :rolleyes:
U had better not let the VB programmers here remember your name! For all u know, your boss might force you to code something in VB one day, and while u're all panicky and such, u thought that u might be able to get help from the VB forum at Codeguru. But because of your statement, they get angry and refused to help you, and you can only go elsewhere.......and if word gets around that u made this statement, all the VB programmers in this world would boycott you and you can only get prepared to explain to your boss why u didn't finished your VB program! :DQuote:
Nothing against VB - but it's for kiddies.
I was something like you in the past, although my C++ isn't even 1/4 as great as ye'. But then, my school introduced VB......and......I had no choice but to humble myself and ask help from the VB programmers, and now, I'm a better and kinder person. :)
A very experienced and expert VB programmer is a Real Man, while a very powerful and great C++ programmer is a Sage.Quote:
I guess if a C++ developer is a real man, is an assembly programmer a God?
A legendary and skillful Assembly Language programmer is a Seraphi, whilst a marvellous and powerful Machine Language programmer(pure numbers) is the Lord...........God Himself. The Almighty. :o
Amen.
Alright, alright. I'm getting too extreme here. :D
How VB would accomplish this....
I want to allow a derived class to use a variable from my base class, but not directly, and not expose the method as a public one that any code could call it given the object.
The answer in C++ is to make the member private, and have a protected member function that can be called by the derived class. (Private members of the base are included in a derived class, but they cannot be accessed directly. Only through a protected member function (or public). Friend classes can also use the protected member, but only the base class that has the private member can access it directly. Encapsulation anyone? ;) I take that back, with what I like to call 'hacks', any code can still access it - but not through normal means. reinterpret_cast, etc....)
VB is for kiddies. (Power wise - otherwise, it's not. Don't take me wrong. ;) )
And if they absolutely wanted something VB compatible, I'll write a COM object in C++ and they can call it in VB. I don't need to learn VB. :p (That's all VB.NET,C#, and VC++ 7.0 with the extensions turned on is - not true objects - they're COM objects. Hello super slow Windows of the future. :rolleyes: Not to mention platform compatibility just went out the door for sure - goodbye Windows. )
Wow!!!Quote:
Originally posted by JamesSchumacher
How VB would accomplish this....
I want to allow a derived class to use a variable from my base class, but not directly, and not expose the method as a public one that any code could call it given the object.
The answer in C++ is to make the member private, and have a protected member function that can be called by the derived class. (Private members of the base are included in a derived class, but they cannot be accessed directly. Only through a protected member function (or public). Friend classes can also use the protected member, but only the base class that has the private member can access it directly. Encapsulation anyone? ;) I take that back, with what I like to call 'hacks', any code can still access it - but not through normal means. reinterpret_cast, etc....)
I don't know how to accomplish that in VB -- much more in C++ because my knowledge in the latter is very elementary.
And I may not be able to accomplish that forever because I only deal with real problems such as budgets, forecast, sales distribution, sales territory planning, etc. from the smallest brick to the corporate level. That's the beauty of VB. It allows kiddies like me to solve real problems directly. :cool:
I don't know why some of the real men hardly accomplished the same 5 years ago. Probably (sorry, just a guess) because, before they could deal with the real problem, they have, first, to " … make the member private, and have a protected member function that can be called by the derived class. (Private members of the base are included in a derived class, but they cannot be accessed directly. Only through a protected member function (or public). Friend classes can also use the protected member, but only the base class that has the private member can access it directly…." etc, etc.
:D :D :D
... and of course, I would like also to solve highly technical problems someday. So I'm into C++ from time to time. See you in that forum later guys.
From James:
Totally true, James! But that's 1 new trick I learnt! I mean, now I knowmore of what the 'protected' keyword is for!Quote:
The answer in C++ is to make the member private, and have a protected member function that can be called by the derived class.
(before this, I very very seldom use 'protected' members of a class at all)
Since u appear high, mighty, skillful and arrogant, I believe you've been programming in C++ for a long time, eh? After all, only the highest of programmers talk in such a manner. :):D
From AIO:
Totally true. Unlike in VB most of the time, in C++, u've to plan much more carefully and worry about lots of bugs and memory issues all the time. In VB, all these stuff are hidden, and it's much less likely to get bugs in a VB program than it is to get in a Visual C++ program.Quote:
I don't know why some of the real men hardly accomplished the same 5 years ago. Probably (sorry, just a guess) because, before they could deal with the real problem, they have, first, to " … make the member private, and have a protected member function that can be called by the derived class. (Private members of the base are included in a derived class, but they cannot be accessed directly. Only through a protected member function (or public). Friend classes can also use the protected member, but only the base class that has the private member can access it directly…." etc, etc.
In VB, it's like swimming in a swimming pool with 600 of the world's most skillful life-guards watching you and preparing to save you should you show any signs of drowning.
In Visual C++, it's like swimming in the Pacific Ocean at night with just a vest and a pair of boxers. It's night, and u can't see clearly. Sharks too. Beware. And oh. In case you get too tired or leg cramps, u're dead. And not to forget, the storm and the waves. Terrible, I say. :rolleyes:
But one great thing about Visual C++ is that if you survived, u'll be well respected in programming parties. That's why! :D:D
Yes I did Xeon pal. That's because don't deal too much on bugs and memory issues. ;) ;) ;)Quote:
Xeon's signature:
"If you're a real man, please do some soul-searching. Have you ever brush the hair of a **** for her after she has bathed? Have you ever gave her suprises often? If not, then do so now. Cherish them and love them. They need you." - Xeon
That's a lucky guy, AIO! :):DQuote:
Yes I did Xeon pal. That's because don't deal too much on bugs and memory issues.
Aye~! If I had code in VB from the start, I would probably be giving babies to many a **** by now. :D:D:D
Heh heh heh!:D
You can't do that in VB. But, you can use derived class, but it is not as well as in C++ language. Let's say that C++ encapsulation, derivation, polyphormism and all those class systems are the betters on the market; you cannot do as well in any other language, including java and Delphi...Quote:
Originally posted by JamesSchumacher
How VB would accomplish this....
I want to allow a derived class to use a variable from my base class, but not directly, and not expose the method as a public one that any code could call it given the object.
The answer in C++ is to make the member private, and have a protected member function that can be called by the derived class. (Private members of the base are included in a derived class, but they cannot be accessed directly. Only through a protected member function (or public). Friend classes can also use the protected member, but only the base class that has the private member can access it directly. Encapsulation anyone? ;) I take that back, with what I like to call 'hacks', any code can still access it - but not through normal means. reinterpret_cast, etc....)
VB is for kiddies. (Power wise - otherwise, it's not. Don't take me wrong. ;) )
JeffB
I've only been programming for 2.5 years, and never taken a single course in programming. I'm self taught.
It's just whatever I do, I put effort into learning. I don't program for a living, but could if I wanted to. In fact, I'm saving for college over the next 2 years so I can get a degree and be a meterologist/computer scientist.
But, as you said Xeon - you don't have to worry about that stuff in VB, you do in C++. But I don't worry about it, because 99% of the time, any bug I have produced has been a simple typo. (and == instead of an =, etc...) I just simply feel that limiting capability - and trying to 'protect' a programmer from mistakes, instead of trying to teach them how to be a better programmer, is the wrong course of action. Stick with the VB's, C#'s, and all the 'protective' languages and you'll be stuck there. I just feel it's people like me that work with C/C++/Assembly that will be the future OS writers/etc... And that is why I say Microsoft will fall to Linux eventually. (Not because of open source, but because of the way they are grooming their future clients) - Fact of the matter is, people don't like upgrading hardware. And MS has already written much of the .NET OS in C#, which runs at 60% the speed of C++. If this continues, a Windows OS will need a much faster CPU (and more RAM) to compete with other OS'es. Plus cover ups in bugs seems to always be another layer added on top to hide the bug, instead of fixing it directly. It multiplies by trying to create a user base highly dependent on the protective languages. Plus, we've already seen that the internet age will never replace the importance of the desktop (although for years people said it would. Even that Java would be the killer of C++ because of it, but we all see and know Java is not the be all or end all - and it's not as big as it once was - just look around the net) But, since this is going off topic, I'll leave it right there.
Oh I see! Nice information and nice debates, James!
Anyway, I really hope Microsoft could come to their senses and stop going around with this .net and XML thingy.
I was wondering : if they had continue with the old ways of Windows programming and had put all their energy into upgrading the Win32 API to Win64 instead of .net, the world would be a much better plavce to program in! :)
From what u said, u must be a talented programmer. :DQuote:
But I don't worry about it, because 99% of the time, any bug I have produced has been a simple typo. (and == instead of an =, etc...)
For my case, 99.9% of those serious and tough-to-find bugs are related to heaps and memory management issues. :)
That's why!
Anyway, I guess Microsoft is trading speed with program interopability.(C++, Java, C# and VB programs can all talk with one another as if they're best friends and such)
I also feel that's what's happening. After all, what's a few seconds delay in comparison with the flexibility that interoperability offers.Quote:
Originally posted by Xeon
Anyway, I guess Microsoft is trading speed with program interopability.(C++, Java, C# and VB programs can all talk with one another as if they're best friends and such)
Ah well, AIO.......but the thing is that as time goes by and the world code programs according to these darn and low standards, performance will be worse and worse over time. In fact, the more interopable programs become, the slower the speed.(it seems)
COM components can be slow, mind you.(just an example)
After all, the fact that a C++ program can talk to a VB program defies the law of the programming languages world : it's not natural at all, and if it's even possible, then really artificial coding techniques and dirty coder must have been used in order for that to happen.
Pals, let's all give up Windows and pick up a book on "C++ for Linux". :):D
Yep, James, I'll remember you :DQuote:
Originally posted by Xeon
U had better not let the VB programmers here remember your name! For all u know, your boss might force you to code something in VB one day, and while u're all panicky and such, u thought that u might be able to get help from the VB forum at Codeguru. But because of your statement, they get angry and refused to help you, and you can only go elsewhere.......and if word gets around that u made this statement, all the VB programmers in this world would boycott you and you can only get prepared to explain to your boss why u didn't finished your VB program!
Heh heh heh!
Yes, yes........put his name down onto your bed and recite his name 20 times per hour.
Tell all your VB pals all about him and tell them to pass on the news. Set up web sites and forums to discuss about him. Get talented guys to write a book to tell the planet about him.
To ensure total boycotting, create mugs, t-shirts and mouse-pads that encourages boycotting of James.
Get the US government to fund you so that u can set up statelites all over space to track his actions, so that we know when he registers under another user to ask a VB question.
:)
But the way, Platinum Plus.....it seems that 100% of your posts are all crap, eh? Whoa! Xeon Version 2.0, code-named Platinum Plus???!!! :D:D:D:D
Assy, ML, C, C++, Fortran and I think the one who is quick to the solutions wins the day.Quote:
Originally posted by JamesSchumacher
Stick with the VB's, C#'s, and all the 'protective' languages and you'll be stuck there. I just feel it's people like me that work with C/C++/Assembly that will be the future OS writers/etc... And that is why I say Microsoft will fall to Linux eventually.
Yeah, Platinum Plus is right.
U gotta use the right tools for the right job, just like the way u get the right **** to give you the right excitment at the right ambience and time and place, right? :)
It's all about using the RIGHT stuff. :):D:D
Maybe crap but not offensive :cool:Quote:
But the way, Platinum Plus.....it seems that 100% of your posts are all crap, eh? Whoa! Xeon Version 2.0, code-named Platinum Plus???!!! :D:D:D:D
By the way:
1. In VC++, what will happen if there is no MFC?
2. Everytime you need a button, you have to call API (if no MFC)?
3. Can non-Microsoft (non-Visual) C++ use MFC?
From Platinum :And MY posts ARE NOT offensive either! :p:p:p:D:)Quote:
Maybe crap but not offensive
From AIO :Interesting questions, AIO! I salute ye'!Quote:
1. In VC++, what will happen if there is no MFC?
2. Everytime you need a button, you have to call API (if no MFC)?
3. Can non-Microsoft (non-Visual) C++ use MFC?
1) In Visual C++(the Tool of all Tools), if you wanna create a Windows program and there's no MFC, u're dead. U can give up your job as a programmer and sell jellies or gurls(or both) instead. Kinda sad.....but.....
Nah! Just kidding! Well, in Visual C++.....if there's no MFC, you'll have to work with the Win32 API directly.
But in my opinion, there's really not much of a syntax difference or anything, cos' MFC is just a thin "wrapper" around the Win32 API.
The name of most of the GUI functions are even the same, as well as the type of parameters etc.
2) Everytime u need a control(buttons, like you say) in Visual C++ without MFC, u need to call the Win32 API Create(...) or CreateEx(...) function and specify the type of control u wanna create.(from combo boxes to push-buttons).
But in Visual C++, it's very very very very very natural to call Win32 API functions, unlike in VB.
In Visual C++, u just call the function directly, without the need to explicitly add those Declare Private Sub NameOfAPI_Function(.........................................) stuff for each API function you use.
At the most, u just code something like #include <xxx.h> etc and u'll be able to use all functions belonging to that catergory or class. :D
3) No........from what I know, non-Visual C++ IDEs cannot use MFC. MFC comes only with Visual C++, and even if you try to copy the MFC files for use with a non-Visual C++ compiler, it wouldn't work, cos' there's -1000000000000% support for MFC in most of them.
Borland C++, however, has it's own set of class library equivalent to MFC, called the OWL.(Object Windows Library)
:D:)
Quote:
Originally posted by aio
I also feel that's what's happening. After all, what's a few seconds delay in comparison with the flexibility that interoperability offers.
Uhh. What's a few seconds in delay you ask. It means the world if your writing device drivers specifically FileSystem filter hook drivers that communicate with VC++ apps via LPC.
Also real-time or near real-time data display. But there are tons of situations where you need speed. And while using ASM to get you around that, who wants to write line after line after line of ASM until you lose your sight when MickeySoft should leave well enough alone.
Hi there Mick! Well, anyway, regarding ASM(Assembly Language), do u know anything about it?
It's very mysterious to me. Is there any branch/flow statements like in C++?(if...else...else if...) and is there even any thing like functions?
If not, wouldn't it be impossible to work with???? God!!!!
I can't imagine anyone trying to use pure ASM to create a simple button control!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek::eek: :eek::eek: :eek:
There are functions and flow control statements in assembler, they are actually quite powerful. I mean, everything that you write in C++ is compiled into ASM anyways (maybe directly machine-code, but that's "equivalent" to ASM), so everything you can do with C++, you can also do it with ASM.
Creating a button control in ASM would be a waste though. But coding the slow parts of your program in optimized ASM will always remain useful, even in 2010 ;)
Oh I see! Thanks a lot, Yves!
By the way, it seems that you've just become the "superset" version of Simon666. U're Yves777. Why?
Cos' your total posts are at 777!!!!!!!
Whoa! Nice number! :):D
Anyway, from what I know, coding in ASM is already total ****. If you go down any further from ASM, u'll meet the Abyss : Machine Language. I've heard that in the past, coders code in Machine Language directly!!!!!!!
Just plain numbers, which is 1000 times worse than ASM!
Can u beat that??!!!
Here's 1 test u can do to see if which programmer is actually God Himself :
Ask him to code Microsoft Office XP entirely in Machine Language. :D
Awk. I have the impression that one of powers of C++ (visual and non-visual) is being able to access libraries such as MFC. Or put the other way around, an impression that these libraries (MFC, OWL, and the likes) are open to any language that support a certain protocol or something.Quote:
Originally posted by Xeon
. . .
3) No........from what I know, non-Visual C++ IDEs cannot use MFC. MFC comes only with Visual C++, and even if you try to copy the MFC files for use with a non-Visual C++ compiler, it wouldn't work, cos' there's -1000000000000% support for MFC in most of them.
Borland C++, however, has it's own set of class library equivalent to MFC, called the OWL.(Object Windows Library)
:D:)
Well, you could probably use MFC with some other c++ compiler, but it would not be as simple as from within VC++ and you would not be able to sell your application, since you don't necessarily have a licence for the MFC dlls.
The founder of my company wrote a Word Processor with syntax highlighting, correct word breaking and some other niceties entirely in Machine Language by looking up the OPCODES in a big table.Quote:
Anyway, from what I know, coding in ASM is already total ****. If you go down any further from ASM, u'll meet the Abyss : Machine Language. I've heard that in the past, coders code in Machine Language directly!!!!!!!
Just plain numbers, which is 1000 times worse than ASM!
Plenty of books (free tutorials) out there for you Xeon ;) If you don't know ASM (which I find hard to believe you seem fairly knowledgable in your posts) then I suggest at least getting a working knowledge of it. It will improve your debugging skills at the minimum.
I still remember going to a 'Introduction to .NET' seminar and all I heard was VB this and VB that. So of course I piped up and asked what about VC++. Answer umm well dead silence of course. And the speaker had the nerve to say, well yea you with .NET you will have a performance impact. And he acted like that was ok, like the whole world is just f'ing groovy man. Lets put some more layers in. Do not attempt to adjust the horizontal we have you under our control. Zombie coders from Microsoft h_e_l_l your next B rated movie. Staring Bill Gates as the evil world ruler with his army of VB and VC coders pent on the worlds destruction thru inefficient software.
I got no beef with VB just you know don't hang VC out to dry.
From Yves M:1 possibility : He is God. Need we say more????Quote:
The founder of my company wrote a Word Processor with syntax highlighting, correct word breaking and some other niceties entirely in Machine Language by looking up the OPCODES in a big table.
My! Yves! U're totally lucky to be in the presence of God! Ohh......u must be the descended Michale the ArchAngel!!!!!!
Ooooo!!!!!!! My respects to you, good Lord! Ohhh.......what do I say in front on the ArchAngel????!!!!!! Ummmm......errr......no no.......Lord.....I haven't been doing anything bad since the day I was born.....eerr.......I did tell naughty lies quite a number of times, but they were all good lies, Lord. And errr......no..I didn't kill or rape.......I only care for gurls......and......errr.....:)
But seriously, it's crazy!!!!!! First, the most basic part about a word processor : the main(overall) window that contains the toolbar/edit control etc.
That's already impossible to create! Imagine drawing the title bar, the borders........it's already gonna take a mere mortal 20 months at least with ML!!!!!! Then, next, you've the minimize, maximize, close button and all their mechanisms.............another 10 months, at least. Next, the rich edit control.......coding a very basic rich edit control from scratch will take any programmer at least 60 months, with all the message maps and basic mechanisms included. Next, syntax highlighting and word-breaking and such.......that'll mean another 15 months.....and when u take into account the toolbars and such......that'll take another 30 months at least. Plus, BUGS. That can easily cost anything from 1 to 4 years.
Hmmm...........your boss must be a 99 year old un-married man, I bet. :):D
From Mick_2002:Thanks for boosting my ego, Mick! But I'm poor and have no money for you. :DQuote:
Plenty of books (free tutorials) out there for you Xeon If you don't know ASM (which I find hard to believe you seem fairly knowledgable in your posts) then I suggest at least getting a working knowledge of it. It will improve your debugging skills at the minimum
But no........I'm not knowledgeable at all. Perhaps I am, compared to 3 year old li'l gurls who play with cute li'l dolls. :)
But then, is it even practical to learn ASM???? I mean, in this world nowadays, we all code in languages higher than ASM, starting from C to Visual Basic.net.
It would be kinda useless and impratical. I guess it's better to use the time to sit next to a **** while watching TV, and stroke her hair.(the hair on the head, not elsewhere. please.) and arouse her. Ohhhhh.........ooooo..............:D
Yes, yes. The only thing Microsoft ever know now is : We VB this and VB that. These guys really suck, I tell you.Quote:
I still remember going to a 'Introduction to .NET' seminar and all I heard was VB this and VB that. So of course I piped up and asked what about VC++.
VB this and VB that. VB up and VB down. VB west and VB east. It's all about VB.net nowadays. Darn!Quote:
And the speaker had the nerve to say, well yea you with .NET you will have a performance impact. And he acted like that was ok, like the whole world is just f'ing groovy man.
In the past, MSDN magazines used to be filled with really cool C++ stuff and Win32 API(C-style) articles. Now, all u ever see is VB.net, ASP.net and variants of XML stuff. It SUCKS!
The only true C++ stuff u see in the entire filthy magazine is the few pathetic articles, titled "C++ Q & A".
Occasionally, I was thinking that it might be great if Linux buck up it's efforts and provide a good API so that more programmers will program and create programs for the Linux OS.
More importantly, make development as smooth as in the Windows OS. I mean, just pay $$$ and u get the development tools, like in the case of Visual Studio. But in Linux, if I'm not wrong, u have to do some complex license agreement or something. Aye.........
I really hate the idea of those new Microsoft technologies, starting from COM to Managed C++.
These are just very artificial add-ons, the truth is.
Before we even know of such stuff, we don't even need them!
It's like : if a tree fells in a forest and u wasn't there, will u even hear a sound?
No.
Someone please sponsor me and Mick and some coders here with tickets and hotel accomodation to the Microsoft HQ in Redmond. We plan to protest in all our glory of being naked outside the dreaded company.
The slogans are as follows :
---Down with VB.net!!!!
---Rid Artificial Coding!!!!
---We want C++! We want C++! We want C++!
---Give us back the old days!!!!
---God destroy Microsoft!!!!!
---The Lord is with us! Microsoft DOWN! Microsoft DOWN!
Have these glorious slogans written down on a very large cardboard with white background and black markers.(black fonts)
I hear you. COM is an a pathetic attempt at making an OS object aware. You want the problem fixed? Write the OS in C++, do that by writing a self sustaining assembler/compiler that relies on no OS to run. Specificially designed to write an OS. It could be done, to install Linux you have to use a bootstrapped GCC to compile it. You'll never see it from Microsoft, but I can almost guarantee it will happen for another OS in the future. (If noone else does it, 10 - 15 years down the road I will.) But I mean a whole editing environment (the IDE, etc...) and not just compiler/assembler. Only disadvantage to that, is the whole thing would have to be written to the particular CPU it's going on. And that would require writing a compiler/assembler for ANOTHER OS that would 'cross compile' for that purpose. (I wouldn't do it in ML - NFW. The fact you'd have to know the architecture and it's ML and the definition of the assembly instructions (in order to map these to the correct ML output) it would be much easier to break it apart and just write that cross compiler/assembler. Then it could 'logically' written.) Devil's advocate - if it were today - write the 'cross compiler' on some type of X86 (on a Linux or Windows OS, so you have an easier job on the development environment) - learn the architecture of 'pick a CPU' and write the code necessary to implement the compiler/assembler. Then, after probably 3 years or so after all the bugs are worked out, you have an independent compiler/assembler for a particular CPU type. Plus, that would give hardware manufacturers some incentive to create ML compatible machines. ;) I'm only turning 22 next Wednesday, and have 2 1/2 years of C/C++ and some assembly experience (I ain't near as good at assembly as I am C/C++, but I am knowledgable) - I couldn't do it right now, but in 10 - 15 years I will be experienced enough to do so. Knowing how young I am, and already amassed as much as I have without a single course in my life - I know I have unlimited potential. I've been told that all my life, only just recently began tapping it. I ain't gonna waste the opportunity.Quote:
Originally posted by Yves M:
Occasionally, I was thinking that it might be great if Linux buck up it's efforts and provide a good API so that more programmers will program and create programs for the Linux OS.
More importantly, make development as smooth as in the Windows OS. I mean, just pay $$$ and u get the development tools, like in the case of Visual Studio. But in Linux, if I'm not wrong, u have to do some complex license agreement or something. Aye.........
I really hate the idea of those new Microsoft technologies, starting from COM to Managed C++.
These are just very artificial add-ons, the truth is.
Before we even know of such stuff, we don't even need them!
It's like : if a tree fells in a forest and u wasn't there, will u even hear a sound?
No.
Someone please sponsor me and Mick and some coders here with tickets and hotel accomodation to the Microsoft HQ in Redmond. We plan to protest in all our glory of being naked outside the dreaded company.
The slogans are as follows :
---Down with VB.net!!!!
---Rid Artificial Coding!!!!
---We want C++! We want C++! We want C++!
---Give us back the old days!!!!
---God destroy Microsoft!!!!!
---The Lord is with us! Microsoft DOWN! Microsoft DOWN!
Have these glorious slogans written down on a very large cardboard with white background and black markers.(black fonts)
This is crazy, James! :)
(by the way, all those quote belongs to me, not Yves M.......look carefully again:))
The thing is : u're a genius! I mean, I can tell u that no one with 2.5 years of programming experience give so much complex details as you can! Definetly, u must have lots of programming knowledge beforehand. Wow! Even folks who have programmed for 3 - 5 years don't seem to be that knowledgeable as you!
Something is wrong........1 confirmation : did u write programs for IBM at age 11????!!!!! Are you from the US??? Does your real name have a 'Gates' behind it? Are your parents in law-related jobs??? Wow! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Just wondering, for C++ coders, how long did it take you to be an "expert" in programming for Windows? All your life? And how much time did you have to spend to get to the level that you are right now? 24x7?
And stop using "Can VB write a device driver? C++ can ..." Duh! VB is not meant for that type of applications. It is meant for RAD! When performance and speed can be negotiated why bother using a complex language such as C++ to write something very simple!
And why the b****ing about VB.NET. M$ is merely trying to get the attention of the VB programmers to switch to a much better language now. VB has been their step-child for a very long time and when .NET was born, M$ knew that this will boost up the spirit of VB coders out there.
M$ has not metioned anything (not that I know of) about planning to stop supporting VC++. So what is the problem? Heck! we all know that they can never do that. The OS was built partly with that language. So if you're worry about your job security, don't!
:( Cool Bizs
From CoolBiz :
Well, u definetly have to spend lots of time to become a great Visual C++ programmer writing programs for Windows. I was thinking, if I had spent 2 years all my life and direct all my energy to Visual Basic instead, I would have been a very powerful VB programmer now. :)Quote:
Just wondering, for C++ coders, how long did it take you to be an "expert" in programming for Windows? All your life? And how much time did you have to spend to get to the level that you are right now? 24x7?
Although my C++ skills and Visual C++ skills are better than my VB's, compared to the majority of Visual C++ programmers out there, it's pretty poor.
But then, most C++ programmers choose C++ cos' :
1) it boosts your ego
2) it's one the most powerful language ever developed, in terms of speed and power and performance, as well as development time. Development time????!!!! Yes!
Like they say, C++ is a marriage of high level and low level languages.
The development time of writing a program in C++ is not as fast as in VB, but it's certainly much faster than in ASM or ML.
As for speed and power, although ML and ASM is faster than C++, C++ is much faster than all the other languages like VB and Java put together. So, in terms of C++, it absorbs the good and the bad.
U see, in VB, u get fast and rapid development time. But u suffer when it comes to performance and application speed, especially in critical and large programs.
In ASM and ML, sure. It's real darn blazing enough to shatter the universe. But the development time needed is Eternity. Let's face it.
Although C++ has it's own drawbacks, it certainly has lots of pros too. :)
Cool down, CoolBiz! I know u're a truly remarkable VB programmer. Besides, I know u did helped me a lot with my VB school questions a few weeks ago! :)Quote:
And stop using "Can VB write a device driver? C++ can ..." Duh! VB is not meant for that type of applications. It is meant for RAD! When performance and speed can be negotiated why bother using a complex language such as C++ to write something very simple!
Well, C++ programmers, when they first started learning C++, they start to have this mindset of always wanting the fastest and the sleekest. I know that cos' my main language is C++ too. In C++ books, u can always see the most extreme algorithms and the most number-crunching techniques etc.
That's why C++ coders always refer you to those examples of device drivers and other speed-critical programs and applications etc. :)
The reason is.......if you ever think about the fact that end-users want fast programs, then........but then, you have your own views. I guess, u're right in your own way. ;)Quote:
And why the b****ing about VB.NET. M$ is merely trying to get the attention of the VB programmers to switch to a much better language now. VB has been their step-child for a very long time and when .NET was born, M$ knew that this will boost up the spirit of VB coders out there.
Well, they never said they're gonna stop supporting C++, but it's getting dangerous. First, unlike in the past, they have not been actively updating the precious MFC library. There's a few add-ons and bug-fixes in the MFC library that comes with Visual C++.net, but it's all useless and tiny.Quote:
M$ has not metioned anything (not that I know of) about planning to stop supporting VC++. So what is the problem? Heck! we all know that they can never do that. The OS was built partly with that language. So if you're worry about your job security, don't!
Currently, the OS is written with C and C++ and ASM in some parts, not with Visual C++. I don't think they use Visual C++ to create the OS. They must be using some lower level tools.
Anyway, I have a feeling that soon, they'll be using C# or even VB.net to write the OS.........after all........these 2 are THEIR OWN technologies. Microsoft is always heading into this direction : they acquire technologies from others and make it their own. If not, they build their own technologies from scratch and corner the market. :):):):)
I have to go with Visual C++. I have tried to learn VB once but I simply HATE it. I HATE almost everything about it, I hate the syntax, the way it cannot hadle complex data structures. You can't even build a simple componet with it, the simplest you can get is an Active X. It generates baloon code. Dont get me wrong, I'm not starting a war here, some of my best friends are VB programmers (unfortunately), and we get along well. ;)
Look a the pool results, Visual C++ simply rules!
"Vive le compilateur Visual C++"
french for
"Long Lives the Visual C++ Compiler"
Can someone translate this in other languages pls.
I think, the reason why some VC++/C++ programmers hate VB or some VB programmers hate VC++/C++ is not really related to the language or the capabilities but rather to the type of applications that a particular programmer mostly handles. Jlafontaine for example may be dealing a lot with problems on components, devices and similar objects. VB really sucks in that area.Quote:
JLafontaine:
I have to go with Visual C++. I have tried to learn VB once but I simply HATE it. I HATE almost everything about it, I hate the syntax, the way it cannot hadle complex data structures. You can't even build a simple componet with it, the simplest you can get is an Active X. It generates baloon code. Dont get me wrong, I'm not starting a war here, some of my best friends are VB programmers (unfortunately), and we get along well.
Look a the pool results, Visual C++ simply rules!
May I ask therefore, what problem domain do we usually dwell into? I'm sure the real picture will easily appear as to why VB or why VC/C++?
As for me, I simply deal with marketing and sales, research and related info services requirements. Not device, component, not hardware access and no system's level call. That's simply the reason why I love VB more than VC/C++.
I don’t really hate VC/C++. In fact I am learning it little by little. But, unless I am threatened of losing my job unless I learn to deal with components, devices and systems' calls, I don’t think I will easily switch side.
Comparing VC/C++ and VB is like comparing fighters and bombers. Technically, both can do the fighting and bombing. But if the objective is control of the sky, why use bombers? On the other hand, if the objective is the ground (as the usual case in winning the war), why rely only on fighters?
Only by substantially discussing the business goal/objective first, then that's probably the only way we can easily tell which among the two is the best programming language.
"Mabuhay ang Visual Basic:D:D:D(C++) kompayler."Quote:
JLafontaine:
"Vive le compilateur Visual C++"
french for
"Long Lives the Visual C++ Compiler"
Can someone translate this in other languages pls.
Thing is, I just have a rapid thinking mind, and was working part time during that period. With a 180+ I.Q. I can learn things quite fast and add onto that I have a great capacity for knowledge. I just pushed myself - that's all it takes.Quote:
Originally posted by Xeon
This is crazy, James! :)
(by the way, all those quote belongs to me, not Yves M.......look carefully again:))
The thing is : u're a genius! I mean, I can tell u that no one with 2.5 years of programming experience give so much complex details as you can! Definetly, u must have lots of programming knowledge beforehand. Wow! Even folks who have programmed for 3 - 5 years don't seem to be that knowledgeable as you!
Something is wrong........1 confirmation : did u write programs for IBM at age 11????!!!!! Are you from the US??? Does your real name have a 'Gates' behind it? Are your parents in law-related jobs??? Wow! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Answers to your questions: (For the :p of it)
1 - No, I didn't program on IBM CPU's at age 11.
2 - Yes, I am from the United States, from the heartland of America, the land of farmer's daughters, the great state of Iowa.
3 - No, my real name is James Bernard Schumacher III.
4 - No, my parents are not in law related jobs - my mom works in hard labor, and my dad's a truck driver.
Not bad for high school dropout (due to life issues) that later got a GED. Although all through elementary and middle school, ITBS and other stuff was pretty much always in the 99% 'tile. In 5th grade, I won my school's spelling bee, etc...
And yes, I do have a life. I work a full time job, and my hobbies include cars, video games, and other stuff. Right now I'm just saving for college, so I can get a degree as a Computer Scientist/Meterologist. All that and I have a mass knowledge of psychology as well - that being just due to life experience. And all of it is held together by a strong spiritual belief in God.
WHAT?????!!!!! 180 I.Q.???????? That'd blazingly CRAZY!!!!!!!
If I'm not wrong, Einstein's I.Q. was around 200++, and yours is 180?????? U're almost the new Einstein!
Li'l wonder why u're talking like those industry experts with just 2.5 years of experience. Crazy! Wild! WOW! :eek: :eek:
And oh....Iowa?? That's the heartland of America??? The more countryside-like face of America? I thought only certain parts of Missouri and the Kansas state are more like the countryside.
And as u say, Iowa is the land of farmer's daughters, so that means.......there must be lots of cute farm gurls for you to enjoy and such........wow........cool! :D:):)
This is a bit off-topic:
I have a copy of MSDN and some of my friends don't have. It is illegal to make a CD copy and give (distribute) to them?
No, go north of Des Moines - between Ankeny and Ames, or north of Ames. There's plenty of country side. Go any direction away from Des Moines pretty much and you'll see countryside.Quote:
Originally posted by Xeon
WHAT?????!!!!! 180 I.Q.???????? That'd blazingly CRAZY!!!!!!!
If I'm not wrong, Einstein's I.Q. was around 200++, and yours is 180?????? U're almost the new Einstein!
Li'l wonder why u're talking like those industry experts with just 2.5 years of experience. Crazy! Wild! WOW! :eek: :eek:
And oh....Iowa?? That's the heartland of America??? The more countryside-like face of America? I thought only certain parts of Missouri and the Kansas state are more like the countryside.
And as u say, Iowa is the land of farmer's daughters, so that means.......there must be lots of cute farm gurls for you to enjoy and such........wow........cool! :D:):)
And yes, there are ALOT of cute girls running around (and yes some ARE farmer's daughters. :D )
Then again, most people outside of Iowa just see Iowa on the interstate or Des Moines when they fly in. There is plenty of countryside in this state. (And it's great for chasing, not as good as Oklahoma, Kansas, and the Texas panhandle, but when those meso's come through Iowa - there's plenty of room out here.)
Even Des Moines is small enough that on a day when a big band's tickets go on sale, there are only a handful to several people waiting for the doors to open. Truth be told, only place I'd probably live other than here, is in Oklahoma. (Seeking being a Computer Scientists/Meterologist, and having a big fascination with tornadic activity - there's no wonder why. :cool: )
To keep this on topic - I think a better question to have asked instead of VC++ vs. VB, is a C++ vs. VB vs. Delphi vs. Assembly vs. Java vs. etc.... Talk about languages instead of development environments. Because truth be told, VC++ vs. VB is all about Microsoft - not my cup of tea. (although 99% of all my programming has been done on Windows. Not for much longer though - ;) Although I did go to CompUSA to buy a new compiler yesterday - they didn't have Codewarrior, BC++ Builder, or the VC++ .NET. They did have the whole Visual Studio.NET pro, but I don't want all the rest of the 'crap' - just VC++. Although the guy when I asked him if he had Visual Studio.NET in, and I told him I just wanted the VC++, he came back with VB.NET and I told him "That's not what I want." ) Although I was *tempted* to shell out the $500 bucks for the whole studio - just because it would give me the pro version of VC++ and I'm sick and tired of VC6. Can someone tell me if the pro version is only available in the entire studio? Or can it be ordered separately? Because if I can only get it through the entire studio - I'll shell out the $500 next payday. (I can't deal with standard - in VC6 optimizations weren't in standard. And I am not shelling out the $ for the enterprise version - they can stick that up their @$$.)
Yes very illeagal.Quote:
I have a copy of MSDN and some of my friends don't have. It is illegal to make a CD copy and give (distribute) to them?
James, have a look on the online resellers, I think it's available separately.
I thought it's ok since most of its information can be downloaded from msnQuote:
Originally posted by billwilson3
Yes very illeagal.
Actually all the information is available for free on the MSDN web site. But, still illeagal to distribute the CDs.
Go figure.
A universal MSDN subscription (the last I heard) is $2500 per year!!
Well, with an MSDN subscription you also get all of the MS programs thrown in. You get all the operating systems, the development tools, Office etc..
Yes, its indispensible to a developer who works on any thing other than a single platforms. It's pretty hard to say you are prepared to do Windows development work if you do not have a subscription.
On the other hand, its awfully expensive. I've never actually owned one myself, but have always had access to one through my clients (its usually a requirement in my contract that they provide it).
:)Quote:
Originally posted by billwilson3
... (its usually a requirement in my contract that they provide it).
I never thought of this. I'll give it a try. Thanks for the idea.
Well, the topic I have in mind when I created this poll is not necessarily programming language stat in general but more on my observation about the activities of posts and threads in this site. I am a VB man and also trying to learn C++. And since I deal mostly with VB men too, I got the impression that there are more VB men than C++ men. I was therefore amazed to see VC/C posts and threads outnumber VB by 4 to 1. Really? There are 4 VC/C++ programmers for every VB programmer?Quote:
JamesSchumacher:
…
To keep this on topic - I think a better question to have asked instead of VC++ vs. VB, is a C++ vs. VB vs. Delphi vs. Assembly vs. Java vs. etc.... Talk about languages instead of development environments. Because truth be told, VC++ vs. VB is all about Microsoft - not my cup of tea.
…
But then I realized I have more bugging questions studying in C++ than in Basic. So I thought maybe the statistics represent only the questions and answers -- not the real ratio between VC/C++ programmers and VB programmers.
Check the poll stat. It's not really 4 to 1. That's simply the intention.
*jokingly*Quote:
But then I realized I have more bugging questions studying in C++ than in Basic. So I thought maybe the statistics represent only the questions and answers -- not the real ratio between VC/C++ programmers and VB programmers.
That is why they say that VB is a language for beginners, not so many bugging questions ;)
But look at Xeon. He started with C++ :p then later VB :DQuote:
Originally posted by Yves M
*jokingly*
That is why they say that VB is a language for beginners, not so many bugging questions ;)
Anyway, VB may have already progressed into modular to structured to object based to OOP to whatever term you may use to modern and advanced programming methods but it cant get away from it's trademark as being the language suited only for beginners. It's probably because the name itself is "Basic" and the word "Beginner" even banners in that name.
Look at Fortran. The syntax of Basic and Fotran is probably 80% to 90% similar, yet, no one (or very rare is ever there is one) is labeling Fortran as a beginner's language. If you have tried programming in dBase, Foxbase, Foxpro, Clipper and/or Cobol, you could probably tell that these are more simple languages too, yet, I haven't heard anyone calling them as beginner's languages.
Look at Pascal. Because of its humble beginning as a teaching language, it has not completely extinguished its label as a language suited only for students. Not until it has become Modula, Delphi and/or Ada. That, despite the fact, that Pascal has nearly matched C in terms of power.
Probably time to rename Basic? (Come on, suggest a name)
C on the other hand had its high profile beginning as "designed for systems programming", "tools for creating compilers" or, as one of the book I have read described it as "the language designed for real programmers."
Maybe the rules on "first impressions last" applies to programming lanuages.:)
From AIO :
Nay, AIO pal! I had no choice but to do VB every now and then, cos' it's part of my school subject. No offense, but it kinda sucks. :):)Quote:
But look at Xeon. He started with C++ then later VB