Sith happens! [Caution: Thread contains movie spoilers]

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Originally Posted by Latem

To me it seems like its almost impossible to understand why Padme would fall for Anakin. There isn’t a scene that makes it understandable or even believable that she is actually falling in love with him.

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Love is not supposed to be rational. People fall in love for all kind of reasons.

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He doesn't really have any charm or grace or other qualities that most people find redeeming.

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I didn't know grace was required for falling in love...

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The pair only partially comes close to having real human emotions when they are on a picnic with the giant ***-monsters.

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Not true. I suggest you to watch The Attack of the Clones again and then have this discussion.

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Even there, instead of laying the groundwork for love, they talk about politics and how Anakin wants a steel fisted dictatorship to rule the galaxy. smooth...

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Thta was just a part of their discussion. What did you expect? Have a 2-3 hours scene with Padme and Anakin at the picnic?

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Originally Posted by Latem

Anyway, it's kinda off topic so lets not hijack this thread. :)

Latem

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Ok , but your sign just remind me Neo and his spoons :D

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Originally Posted by Skoons

Ok , but your sign just remind me Neo and his spoons :D

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OK, but Latem had a good point, though... Please stay on topic.

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Originally Posted by Smasher/Devourer

I'll have to respectfully disagree here. That he was motivated by love does not absolve him from responsibility for his actions. Anakin was short-sighted and ignorant.

I just got back from the movie, and thought it was pretty good. Ian McDiarmid went rather over the top from his fight against Mace Windu onward, and Vader screaming "Nooooo!" was just about the worst thing ever, but overall it was a decent movie. Definitely the best of the three prequels. :)

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Not ignorant, arrogant. It was Anakin's arrogance that caused his downfall. He thought that he was doing all this (becomming Sidious' apprentice) to save Padme, but in the end, you realize that is a half truth. After all, when confronted by Kenobi in the end, he talks about "his" empire, and how "he" brought peace to the universe.

One other interesting observation I found was the difference between Anakin/Vader in the first 3 episodes, and Vader in the last 3 episodes. In the first three (well, 2 and 3 really), Anakin/Vader is this arrogant, angry person. In the last three, it's almost as if Vader has come to peace with himself. He's no longer really arrogant (just don't make him angry), and he doesn't seem as angry all the time.

Viggy

Oh, and not to get too off topic, but I recently got the Star Wars Triology DVD set (episodes 4-6, on DVD). They (Lucas and company) changed the end of Return of the Jedi!!! They inserted Hayden Christensen in place of the "original" actor that played Anakin; in the scene on Endor where Luke looks off into the woods, and Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin all appear before him.

I guess I can't get rid of my VHS sets (yep, sets, all of them) yet!

Viggy

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They inserted Hayden Christensen in place of the "original" actor that played Anakin; in the scene on Endor where Luke looks off into the woods, and Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin all appear before him.

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Hum, wait a minute, someone explain me what Anakin is doing with Yoda and Obi-Wan in that scene...

JeffB

In Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader finds his way back to the good side of the force. That's what that scene is representing.

Viggy

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Originally Posted by MrViggy

Not ignorant, arrogant. It was Anakin's arrogance that caused his downfall. He thought that he was doing all this (becomming Sidious' apprentice) to save Padme, but in the end, you realize that is a half truth. After all, when confronted by Kenobi in the end, he talks about "his" empire, and how "he" brought peace to the universe.

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His dream was to become the most powerfull Jedi ever so that he could bring peace and justice to the Galaxy...

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Originally Posted by Jeff

Hum, wait a minute, someone explain me what Anakin is doing with Yoda and Obi-Wan in that scene...

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Haven't you seen The Return of the Jedi? Darth Vader kills Palpatine to save Luke but dies because of the lethal wounds and his body is burnt on the moon of Endor. Later he appears nearside Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi to Luke. The balance was restored to the Force...

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Originally Posted by cilu

His dream was to become the most powerfull Jedi ever so that he could bring peace and justice to the Galaxy...

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True, but the words and manner in which he speaks them suggest that the power has gone to his head. It also seems to me that his idea of "peace and justice" is really a universe with no war. Just because there is no war does not mean that the universe is at peace. And, that's what we see in Episode 4, right? The universe is not at peace, but living in fear of the empire.

Viggy

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Originally Posted by MrViggy

True, but the words and manner in which he speaks them suggest that the power has gone to his head. It also seems to me that his idea of "peace and justice" is really a universe with no war. Just because there is no war does not mean that the universe is at peace. And, that's what we see in Episode 4, right? The universe is not at peace, but living in fear of the empire.

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No, the empire is not at peace, because the strongest supporters of the Republic, formerly led by his wife, turned against the new galactic order.

Earlier you said

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One other interesting observation I found was the difference between Anakin/Vader in the first 3 episodes, and Vader in the last 3 episodes. In the first three (well, 2 and 3 really), Anakin/Vader is this arrogant, angry person. In the last three, it's almost as if Vader has come to peace with himself. He's no longer really arrogant (just don't make him angry), and he doesn't seem as angry all the time.

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That is a very good remark. Probably all the passion died along with Padme and in time he became cold and was no longer hasty.

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Originally Posted by cilu

Haven't you seen The Return of the Jedi? Darth Vader kills Palpatine to save Luke but dies because of the lethal wounds and his body is burnt on the moon of Endor. Later he appears nearside Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi to Luke. The balance was restored to the Force...

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I know that, but he did not find immortality, why would he be there with them?

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Originally Posted by JeffB

I know that, but he did not find immortality, why would he be there with them?

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He didn't find imortality like Yoda and Obi-Wan but the "spirit" was immortal. Remember Yoda telling Obi-Wan in ROTS at the end that Qui-Gon returned from the Underworld of the force. Anakin probably did the same thing. I don't know...

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Originally Posted by cilu

He didn't find imortality like Yoda and Obi-Wan but the "spirit" was immortal. Remember Yoda telling Obi-Wan in ROTS at the end that Qui-Gon returned from the Underworld of the force. Anakin probably did the same thing. I don't know...

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You know, I didn't quite understand that part. Or, was that "foreshadowing" of Obi-Wan's comment to DV in episode 4 about "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful then ever." Even so, that still confuses me, because Yoda implied that Obi-Wan would have to learn how to communicate with Qui-Gon. Yet, Luke didn't have to learn anything to communicate with Obi-Wan once Vader struck him down ("Run, Luke, run!").

Viggy

Yeah, that's a part that is still confusing... :sick:

Ahh, well. All this talk (and seeing the movie) has got me thinking that I might have to break out my Star Wars DVD Triology, and watch 4, 5, and 6 yet again!

:D

Vig.

Finally saw the movie. Awesome to say the least. I loved it! I wanna see it again! :D

I didn't agree with Anakin turning to the dark side so easily, I was disappointed with him. But at least I am comforted with the fact that he knows pain & suffering so he can dish it out later :P

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Originally Posted by Deniz

Finally saw the movie. Awesome to say the least. I loved it! I wanna see it again! :D

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Well, what took you so long to see it?

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I didn't agree with Anakin turning to the dark side so easily, I was disappointed with him. But at least I am comforted with the fact that he knows pain & suffering so he can dish it out later :P

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The problem is that the events were climbing up and he had to quickly make his mind: find out how to save Padme or loose her like he lost his mother. And he pledged to never let that happen again.

PS: good to see you have turned to your old side and changed back your avatar...

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Originally Posted by cilu

Well, what took you so long to see it?

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I wasn't keen on waiting in line for 45 minutes only to end up in crappy seats in the theatre. I just walked in without waiting & ended up in a crappy seat anyway. :D

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Originally Posted by cilu

The problem is that the events were climbing up and he had to quickly make his mind: find out how to save Padme or loose her like he lost his mother. And he pledged to never let that happen again.

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Yes but it doesn't change the fact that he made the wrong choice, and the irony is if he hadn't made that choice his vision may not have come true. But he'll never find out now will he.

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Originally Posted by cilu

PS: good to see you have turned to your old side and changed back your avatar...

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I thought you liked my Buddy Jesus avatar Cilu, would you like me to bring him back?

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Originally Posted by Deniz

I wasn't keen on waiting in line for 45 minutes only to end up in crappy seats in the theatre. I just walked in without waiting & ended up in a crappy seat anyway. :D

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You know... sith happens... oh... i meant something else... :D

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Yes but it doesn't change the fact that he made the wrong choice, and the irony is if he hadn't made that choice his vision may not have come true. But he'll never find out now will he.

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That's the irony of life...

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I thought you liked my Buddy Jesus avatar Cilu, would you like me to bring him back?

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No, I didn't like the Buddy Jesus avatar (was it taken from Dogma?), I though I already told you that in the past.

About Anakin : how can you say he was motivated by love ? He defied the Jedi code - married Padme - and got her pregnant. That's just plain stupid on his part and exceptionally selfish.

I thought it was ironic that it was the turning to the dark side of the force that eventually killed her - "she's lost the will to live".

About the film : I've seen it twice now and loved it.

However at the end when Obi-wan and Anakin are fighting and Yoda & the emperor are fighting too did anyone else think it was bad editing ? The scenes jumped around with no consistancy. For instance the bit where Anakin's got Obi-Wan by the throat because he's dropped his light saber.

I think they could have come up with some more catch-phrases though. I'm so glad I never have to hear "I've got a bad feeling about this" come out of Obi-Wan's mouth again. Or anybody elses for that matter. Maybe Lucas was running short on money when it came to the dialogue writers and decided to reuse parts of the script over and over again ?

Great film. Not as good as Star Wars, but definately the best of the first three.

Darwen.

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Originally Posted by darwen

About Anakin : how can you say he was motivated by love ? He defied the Jedi code - married Padme - and got her pregnant. That's just plain stupid on his part and exceptionally selfish.

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Remeber Anakin's words:

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Something's wrong... I'm not the Jedi I should be. I want MORE!

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Then again, in Attack of the Clones:

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INTERIOR: TATOOINE, HOMESTEAD, GARAGE - DAY

PADMÉ comes in with a tray of food. ANAKIN is standing at a
workbench, repairing a part of the speeder bike.

PADMÉ: I brought you something. Are you hungry?

PADMÉ puts the tray down.

ANAKIN: The shifter broke. Life seems so much simpler when
you're fixing things. I'm good at fixing things... always
was. But I couldn't... (stops working, tears in his eyes)
Why did she have to die? Why couldn't I save her? I know I
could have!

PADMÉ: Sometimes there are things no one can fix. You're
not all-powerful, Annie.

ANAKIN turns and walks away from the bench.

ANAKIN: (angry) I should be! Someday I will be... I will be
the most powerful Jedi ever! I promise you, I will even
learn to stop people from dying.

PADMÉ: Anakin...

ANAKIN: (furious) It's all Obi-Wan's fault. He's jealous!
He knows I'm already more powerful than he is. He's holding
me back!

ANAKIN hurls the wrench across the garage. It CLATTERS to
the floor. He looks at his trembling hands. PADMÉ stares at
him, shocked.

PADMÉ: Annie, what's wrong?

ANAKIN: I... I killed them. I killed them all. They're
dead, every single one of them...

ANAKIN focuses on her like someone returning from far away.

ANAKIN: Not just the men, but the women and the children
too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like
animals... I hate them!

There is silence for a moment, then ANAKIN breaks down,
sobbing. PADMÉ takes him into her arms.

ANAKIN: Why do I hate them? I didn't... I couldn't... I
couldn't control myself. I... I don't want to hate them...
But I just can't forgive them.

PADMÉ: To be angry is to be human.

ANAKIN: To control your anger is to be a Jedi.

PADMÉ: Ssshhh... you're human.

ANAKIN: No, I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this. I'm
sorry, I'm so sorry!

PADMÉ: You're like everyone else...

PADMÉ rocks him, and ANAKIN weeps.

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Later on, at the funerals:

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Brief pause. ANAKIN steps forward and kneels at his
mother's grave. He picks up a handful of sand.

ANAKIN: I wasn't strong enough to save you, Mom. I wasn't
strong enough. But I promise I won't fail again... (he
stands up) I miss you so much.

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How can you say he didn't do it for love?

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I thought it was ironic that it was the turning to the dark side of the force that eventually killed her - "she's lost the will to live".

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I agree. That is very ironic... And tragic...

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About the film : I've seen it twice now and loved it.

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Then we are two... A master and an apprentice... :D Kidding...

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However at the end when Obi-wan and Anakin are fighting

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How exactly did Obi-wan beat Anakin? "I have the higher ground." So what? Compared with the rest of the gymnastics they had just been through I don't quite see what difference a bit of height would make! :D

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Originally Posted by Norfy

How exactly did Obi-wan beat Anakin? "I have the higher ground." So what? Compared with the rest of the gymnastics they had just been through I don't quite see what difference a bit of height would make! :D

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Jedi are mildly prescient, they can see what is going to happen. Obi-Wan "anticipated" that Anakin's next move was going to be to press the fight and knew that Anakin would leave himself vulnerable. Obi-Wan didn't want to kill Anakin so the "higher ground" stuff was intended to disuade Anakin from doing something stupid (obviously it didn't work). Additionally, Anakin considered himself to be greater than all Jedi, so if he did see that he would be leaving himself vulnerable, probably thought that either Obi-Wan couldn't see it or would be too slow/unable to take advantage of the situation.

They forgot to include a very mysterious aspect of the Star Wars story in Episode III: "How did C3PO turn gay?"

Well, didn't they "Format" C3PO's brain, and i guest the system admin had some crazy idea, put some gay pron into his brain.. turning C3PO to gay.... ewwwhhh :sick::p

../seriously, C3PO is gay....??? :confused:

I've heard C3PO was at last years gay & lesbian mardi gras here in Sydney. :p

hmmm interesting facts...:p

He was wearing stillettos & carrying a matching gold coloured purse.

Those are only rumors.

Let Darth Vader read your mind: http://sithsense.com/flash.htm

Cool forum. I've been a loyal Star Wars fan since the first film which I saw when I was 8 years old. I've seen all the episodes too many time to count. It was these films that inspired me to major in Physics and Electrical Engineering.

I'm glad that Lucas started out with Episode IV. When we get to Episode V and Darth Vader tells Luke that he is Luke's father, that is about the most dramatic moment of the last three episodes. At that point, I wasn't even sure if it was the truth, or a lie by Darth Vader to trick Luke. When the emperor tells Darth Vader that the "son of Anakin Skywalker" must be destroyed and Vader states that "he will join us or die", we still don't know that Darth Vader is really Luke's father. If Lucas had started with Episode I, that drama would have been lost.

Episode III was amazing. I got choked up when Obi-wan had to fight Anakin, and told him how he loved him as a brother, even after Anakin tells Obi-wan that he hates him. I don't know if Lucas could have done any better. The movie was as perfect as possible.

I have a question regarding consistency though. In Episode VI, Luke asks Leia if she remembers anything about her real mother. Leia states that she only remembers that she was sad all the time. If Padme dies in childbirth, how does Leia remember her? Only thing I can think of is that Leia had visions of her mother in her youth - visions that were a result of Leia being endowed with a connection to the force. And since Leia didn't know about her connection with the force, she assumed that her visions of her mother were actual memories. That may be stretching it a little, but I don't know how else to reconcile the events... Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

When Luke asked Leia abour her real mother she was unaware that Vader was her father and that she wasn't related to Senator Organa's family. She could have been recalling Senator Organa's wife not Padme. It's unclear when or how Leia's adoptive parents die, so Leia's adoptive mother could have died soon after her birth as well.

Although the force vision thing, could also be an explanation, I think we would need a clearer explanation of who and/or how the dead can revisit the living. I was under the impression that it was only possible through use of the force both on the part of the person recieving the vision and the one sending it. If that is that case, then Padme couldn't have appeared to Leia because Padme had no abilities in the force. However, if the visions are only requisite on the receiver being a force user then Leia could have had visions of Padme when she was young that she took to be memories of her real mother.

I always thought that Leia's adoptive mother was killed along with her adoptive father (Bail Organa) when the Death Star destroyed her home planet of Alderaan.

Also, when I was trying to explain that Leia's memories of her mother were derived from a vision, I didn't mean to say that Padme initiated the vision. Remember when Luke is training with Yoda in Ep. V? He has a vision of Leia and Han in pain. Yoda explains that the force can let you see things that have passed, things as they are, and things of the future. I was guessing that Leia's memories of her real mother were a result of a similar interaction with the force. I was also assuming that Leia knew that she was adopted, as did Luke, since it was so easy for her to understand how Luke could be her brother.

I have come to believe the representation of the light side of the Force is truth. So when someone is attuned to the Force they can easily come to grips with the truth no matter how difficult such truth would normally be to accept. Leia rather quickly came to accept that Luke was her brother for that very reason, she sort of "saw" it was true through the Force. I don't think her adoption was made public in any way and I came to understand from the interaction between Yoda, Obi-Wan and Senator Organa at the end of Ep. III that they weren't going to let Anakin's children know they were adopted, and more specifically their relation to Vader, to protect them from the Emperor. I doubt Senator Organa would have revealed that to Leia because then her thoughts could have been felt by the Emperor or Vader very easily especially since she was serving as a Senator and likely in frequent contact with the two of them. Follows the principle of someone not able to reveal what they don't know, Leia can't think about what she doesn't know about.

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Leia rather quickly came to accept that Luke was her brother for that very reason, she sort of "saw" it was true through the Force.

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Well when your home planet Alderan winks out like a radar blip, and your suddenly not royalty anymore, you got to believe in something. The death star was another kind of force that could probably change your outlook!

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Originally Posted by Deniz

I've heard C3PO was at last years gay & lesbian mardi gras here in Sydney. :p

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How you have got this information??? :eek:

Here's another question I have about consistency:

How old is Obi-Wan Kenobi in each of the episodes?

My best guess:
Episode I: 25 to 30 years old
Episode II: 35 to 40 years old (10 years later, right?)
Episode III: 37 to 45 years old (the Clone Wars animated films, chapters 1-25, seem like they only could cover between 2 to 5 years at the most)
Episode IV: 54 to 62 years old (17 years later, right?)

Obi-Wan looks much older than 62 in Episode IV. (That is, he looks like he is much older than what corresponds to 62 earth years). In the beginning of Ep. IV, Luke is 17 or 18 Tattoine years old - who knows, that may correspond to a greater number of earth years, thus giving Obi-wan time to age. That IS stretching an explanation, I think.

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Originally Posted by NatThoelecke

I don't think her adoption was made public in any way and I came to understand from the interaction between Yoda, Obi-Wan and Senator Organa at the end of Ep. III that they weren't going to let Anakin's children know they were adopted, and more specifically their relation to Vader, to protect them from the Emperor.

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From the StarWars.com Databank:

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...a member of the Royal Family of Alderaan. Yet despite her stature, for many years, Leia herself was not privy to much of her true heritage.

It was common knowledge throughout the court that Leia was adopted into the Royal Family. What wasn't common knowledge was that Leia was born to Anakin Skywalker...

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Leia was aware that she was adopted. She had memories of her birth mother - only that she was beautiful and sad.

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Originally Posted by Ljais

Here's another question I have about consistency:

How old is Obi-Wan Kenobi in each of the episodes?

My best guess:
Episode I: 25 to 30 years old
Episode II: 35 to 40 years old (10 years later, right?)
Episode III: 37 to 45 years old (the Clone Wars animated films, chapters 1-25, seem like they only could cover between 2 to 5 years at the most)
Episode IV: 54 to 62 years old (17 years later, right?)

Obi-Wan looks much older than 62 in Episode IV. (That is, he looks like he is much older than what corresponds to 62 earth years). In the beginning of Ep. IV, Luke is 17 or 18 Tattoine years old - who knows, that may correspond to a greater number of earth years, thus giving Obi-wan time to age. That IS stretching an explanation, I think.

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Appearances can be decieving especially when one is adept in the Force. Did you really expect an 800 year-old Yoda to be able to bust out with the moves he pulled in Episodes II & III (without being forewarned of it)? Similarly appearing to be older than 60 isn't that unlikely even though you may only be that age. Some people can appear to be older or younger than their actual age at various times. There were times in Episode I where Obi-wan looked to be almost a teenager and other times seemed to be in his mid-30s.
Also, living conditions sometimes play a factor in aging. The harder the life led the more rapidly one may appear to age. Living in a desert climate is very difficult and could have lead to Obi-Wan "aging" more than the 20 years or so between III and IV. I'd have to say probably only George Lucas knows for sure exactly how these things are explainable if at all.

The only thing that I appreciate in SW is that it’s one of the best SF thing created by now. But it's not good at all.
SF is in general is not very elaborated field, you can find only a few examples of profound SF systems in literature. Much worse in cinema. I can name only Space Odyssey 2001 (though it doesn't involve much concepts) and (in general) Babylon 5.
Somehow fantasy is in general more subtle then SF. Maybe it's due to more fixed "framework", concepts are relatively fixed and have external background. Many writers end with sensible world, with logically based actions restrained only by the laws of the world.
In SF the background isn't fixed and many works lead to inconsistent worlds. They are either silly or don't have logical restraints where they experience them: very often there exists evident possibility, deduced from other proven possibilities, but it's taken for granted as impossible under terms of the world. Too much work is required to create connected world having no background. The result of trying to take such background is even worse: the background is exclusively inconsistent irrecoverable system...

SW is "the lesser of evils" path. Concepts (considering intended depth of elaboration) are simple, and basically consistent. Such simplicity can't place distinct restraints, and thus we have many not-that-distinct consistent application of system itself, that is the story. Storyline also doesn't seem sensible, for the causes of actions of characters seem to be unfounded and thus are suspected in being unreasonable. But that's only on surface. Really it's even worse - there is no evident way to place more accurate conditions in the SW world so that they would explain actions and at the same time wouldn't allow other sensible actions contradicting other fixed story events. That's the lack of real base: with the one you can skip details, but there are details to be placed, and if you just make random decisions you end up in fundamentally inconsistent world...

haha Vader = DJ :confused::D

http://daemlich.net/8339

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Originally Posted by Ljais

I have a question regarding consistency though. In Episode VI, Luke asks Leia if she remembers anything about her real mother. Leia states that she only remembers that she was sad all the time. If Padme dies in childbirth, how does Leia remember her? Only thing I can think of is that Leia had visions of her mother in her youth - visions that were a result of Leia being endowed with a connection to the force. And since Leia didn't know about her connection with the force, she assumed that her visions of her mother were actual memories. That may be stretching it a little, but I don't know how else to reconcile the events... Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

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I was asking the same thing for some time. I don't know the "official" version but I was always under the impression (before seeing The Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith) that Leia was actually talking about her real mother, which later turned to be Padme. Because of that I was hoping, until not long ago that Padme would not die at child birth but live on Alderan with Leia for a few more years before dieing. I believe that here there is indeed an inconsistency.

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Originally Posted by Robo

The only thing that I appreciate in SW is that it’s one of the best SF thing created by now. But it's not good at all.
SF is in general is not very elaborated field, you can find only a few examples of profound SF systems in literature. Much worse in cinema. I can name only Space Odyssey 2001 (though it doesn't involve much concepts) and (in general) Babylon 5.
Somehow fantasy is in general more subtle then SF. Maybe it's due to more fixed "framework", concepts are relatively fixed and have external background. Many writers end with sensible world, with logically based actions restrained only by the laws of the world.

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Robo, here are some elaborate SF books for you to read:

Frank Herbert's
Dune saga: Dune, Messiah Dune, Children of Dune, God-Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, Dune Cannon
Pandora saga: The Jesus Incident, The Lazarus Factor, The Ascending (I', not 100% sure these 3 are the original English titles)

Orson Scott Card's
Ender's saga: Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocid

Philip K. Dicks'
Do Androids Deam of Electric Sheep?, The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldirch, Man From the High Castel, Ubik

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Originally Posted by cilu

Robo, here are some elaborate SF books for you to read:

Frank Herbert's
Dune saga: Dune, Messiah Dune, Children of Dune, God-Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, Dune Cannon
Pandora saga: The Jesus Incident, The Lazarus Factor, The Ascending (I', not 100% sure these 3 are the original English titles)

Orson Scott Card's
Ender's saga: Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocid

Philip K. Dicks'
Do Androids Deam of Electric Sheep?, The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldirch, Man From the High Castel, Ubik

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Right. But Dicck is too abstract, Card's novels are too naive. Only Herbert. Not many systems, right?

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Only Herbert. Not many systems, right?

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So you judge the books by the number of planets described?! :ehh: Come on, Dune is the best SF book ever written... And it's very complex, philosophical, religious...

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Card's novels are too naive.

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I don't know. Perhaps. But they address several real good questions, IMO.

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But Dicck is too abstract

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Philip K. Dic.k is my favorite. He abandoned the outer space and turned to the inner self. I love his books because you hardly know what's real and what's not. And in the end everything turns different that you thought.

PS: Well, I'm wondering what would you have said if I was listing your fellow russian, Isaac Asimov (I know he lived in US since he was 3).

Here is next episode.

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Originally Posted by ovidiucucu

Here is next episode.

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:lol: ROTFLMAO :lol:

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Originally Posted by cilu

So you judge the books by the number of planets described?! :ehh: Come on, Dune is the best SF book ever written... And it's very complex, philosophical, religious...

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No, no - you got my reply wrong. I mean Herbert is about the only writer created something realistic.

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Originally Posted by RoboTact

No, no - you got my reply wrong. I mean Herbert is about the only writer created something realistic.

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Oh, ok... sorry for the misunderstanding.

I see you are talking about SF books, as for me the best books wrote Rodjer Jeliazni (maybe i have mistakes in his name :blush: ) They are really greate :thumb:

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Originally Posted by Skoons

I see you are talking about SF books, as for me the best books wrote Rodjer Jeliazni (maybe i have mistakes in his name :blush: ) They are really greate :thumb:

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It's Roger Zelazny. I've only read Lord of Light (Hugo Award, 1968) which is one of best SF books IMO.