Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by mrRee
my anthelop: neglected doesn't means to remove something...
It means that some very small values can be removed without any harm done to results....
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I give 10 bucks to Bill Gate, so when he have to declare his current asset, my $10 will be neglected in the declaraton...
Yeah... tell that to Inland Revenue officer ;) :D
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so, implement this into the global polution...if current global polution is at 10000 smoke/meter square, 10000 is from the factory, vehicles, volcanoes, etc while 0.1 is from all the smoke from smokers combined together...as 0.1 can be neglected, that's why the report only state the 10000 smoke/meter square:D...
But taking cubic meter of air, all those "global pollution" in my town can be neglected ;) , but when someone smokes around - that cannot :p .
So this is about banning smoking at public places, not about banning smoking at all :rolleyes:
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smoking-free at ALL public places is a nut;)...
No. It is teaching good manners. If smokers stops smoking at public places than that bann is unnecesery. There is no bann (for example) for farting at public places because peoples (usually :D ) know that is not apropriate behavior ;)
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by Krzemo
It means that some very small values can be removed without any harm done to results....
removed or not counted, either way, the cigs smokes is not an issue compared to other source of smokes:p...
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But taking cubic meter of air, all those "global pollution" in my town can be neglected ;) , but when someone smokes around - that cannot :p .
so?... :rolleyes:
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No. It is teaching good manners. If smokers stops smoking at public places than that bann is unnecesery. There is no bann (for example) for farting at public places because peoples (usually :D ) know that is not apropriate behavior ;)
you mean, smokers can't smoke at a beach?....at a park?... :cry:
hmm...I think we should ban vehicles first from all public areas...:D...many can't stand the smoke even for smokers:D...
Re: smoking-free environment
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hmm...I think we should ban vehicles first from all public areas...:D...many can't stand the smoke even for smokers:D...
It is not the same. Cars produces smoke to produce energy that makes them moving. It is like peobles that produces CO2 for energy. U cant ban peoples for breathing even if their breath is sometimes not fresh ;).
Question is how much that smoke is dangerous to peoples health.
In many places in the world cars that produces too much smoke are banned anyway(from all public and non public places)!
From year to year cars black list is longer and longer, and new cars produces fewer polution (other way they will be banned) - the same should be for smokers :D
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you mean, smokers can't smoke at a beach?....at a park?... :cry:
They can - only if they are alone ....
And look for poll results - majority is for banning:thumb:
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by Krzemo
From year to year cars black list is longer and longer, and new cars produces fewer polution (other way they will be banned) - the same should be for smokers :D
I think tobacco companies should start to invent ciggarette that produce less polution in its smokes...or maybe strawberry-flavoured in the cigs smokes:D...
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They can - only if they are alone ....
but...but...at a beach smokes will be blown away....
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And look for poll results - majority is for banning:thumb:
:eek:
Re: smoking-free environment
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I think tobacco companies should start to invent ciggarette that produce less polution in its smokes...or maybe strawberry-flavoured in the cigs smokes:D...
They already tryied that (without significant success) ;)
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but...but...at a beach smokes will be blown away....
maybe... but "the cigs buds " remains ;)
yes yes, I know I know: plastic cans,... etc. etc. But believe me I saw beaches with more "cigs buds" than sand :sick: (with no plastic bags, cans .. at all)
Re: smoking-free environment
People litter too much. Go down any road here and it will be lined with thousands if not miillions of butts on the side of the road. The only time I just throw butts on the ground is in my own back yard when its winter out, but then I pick them up once the cold is gone.
I had a cig that tasted like coca cola before, it was...odd.
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by Krzemo
That is not a point. Let say it in mathematics:
a=global pollution (a>0)
b="smoker polution" (b>0)
(a>0) and (b>0) => (a+b)>a
So less in mathematics : when U add something than that becomes always larger ;) :D
And I have to say that b can be much larger than a (from the person point of view) since it is more concentated. When smokers smoke in a room, it will not take too much time for concentration b to achieve the danger level :D (even if pollution a is filtered out to zero in this room ;) )
Krzemo.
And we have a function ban: ban(smoker polution) = (smoker polution)/3
Great! But i 'd like to see this function with global polution also. Instead i see no function at all...
Re: smoking-free environment
I hope you'll manage to do that. ;)
Re: smoking-free environment
Osaka is also studying the prospect of banning smoking on crowded public areas
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by ideru
Osaka is also studying the prospect of banning smoking on crowded public areas
Are you a Japanese ? if so, where are you allowed to freely smoke yourself some cigarrete in public, especially right in your area ?
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by ideru
Osaka is also studying the prospect of banning smoking on crowded public areas
this is basic that smoking can help lung cancer grow.
Cigarretes in Japan I know whe I was there as a traveller are different. Do you know wnaything about ?
Re: smoking-free environment
they say that its very light, some are even nicotine free?? , I don't know the details about it..
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by Mattrang
Are you a Japanese ? if so, where are you allowed to freely smoke yourself some cigarrete in public, especially right in your area ?
no am not japanese. ask mrRee where am from :lol:
in public areas like train station, there are specific areas where one can smoke, but on the streets I don't think there is right now thus the article.
Re: smoking-free environment
I don't smoke (anymore) but I voted for NO. As long as the governments allow cigarettes to be made and sold why should they bann their use? It's not an honest approach.
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by PadexArt
I don't smoke (anymore) but I voted for NO. As long as the governments allow cigarettes to be made and sold why should they bann their use? It's not an honest approach.
The cigarettes still being made is a matter of market, not a matter of government. As long as there exists economic demandas for a stuff, the stuff will be produced (under normal conditions), because that will provide the offerer economic gains.
Wether the government decides that these stuff (guns, cigarettes, porn, viral weapons) are dangerous, damaging, or useless, has no influence in the existence of the demand... unless people learns not to demand. The "honest approach" is to ban stuff that is dangerous in the general social context -- but still allow market to operate -- until people learns that the stuff is problematic and can decide as a crowd not to exercise demand on that stuff, regardless of a law existing to ban it.
By the way, I voted YES, but only because people here where I live does smoke without considerations towards non-smokers. Enabling a ban will enforce people to learn that cigarrette is damaging and in some time people will we hope decide that they don't want cigar smoke.
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by Luchin_plusplus
The cigarettes still being made is a matter of market, not a matter of government. ....
Wether the government decides that these stuff (guns, cigarettes, porn, viral weapons) are dangerous, damaging, or useless, has no influence in the existence of the demand... unless people learns not to demand.
Why aren't other drugs legal then? They sure do have a wide demand on the market? And take into account that caffeine and nicottine are stronger than other banned drugs.
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by PadexArt
Why aren't other drugs legal then? They sure do have a wide demand on the market? And take into account that caffeine and nicottine are stronger than other banned drugs.
You're reading the text, but not what it means: drugs can be made (people wants stuff). They are damaging. Therefore, the government decides to **ban** drugs (government wants regulation). They use **law** for this. Law enforces behaviour, but does not impose **reason** (does neccessity require laws??) -- Drugs are made ilegal... but that does not means, in any way, that people will no longer require them. Therefore, it is normal that they are not legal, even if one million people uses them.
I never said that demand makes the goodies "legal". Neither that it works the oppossite. I only said that under a market and legislation frame, people can alter the demand.
Nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol, are **stronger** in terms of dependency that those "damaging" drugs, but they are also more **useful**. Pilots and drivers in general can cover their normal operations with better perfomance just after smoking a cigarrette. Caffeine makes the adult world work by the morning, and awakes all senses. Low doses of alcohol enhace the sensitivity of ear, and it also enhaces hive communication. All of these in small doses and a shared, controlled, environment, disable socially-managed behaviours that produce "social impairment" such as shyness, guilt complex, and forged empathy/sympathy. This is what laws such as "prohibit smoking in **PUBLIC** places" are intended to do.
These drugs may be dangerous, but are easier to control. A well made law system will provide the right chance to take advantage of these good altered states, and will inhibit those behaviours that would lead into bad altered states. We all know what excess or misjudgement in the use of nicotine (cancer, respiratory system diseases, etc), caffeine (high blood pressure, loss of digestive ability, etc) and alcohol (beast-like / primitive behaviour, rapes, murder, etc) can do. Therefore it is normal to prohibit those uses.
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by Luchin_plusplus
Nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol, are **stronger** in terms of dependency that those "damaging" drugs, but they are also more **useful**.
Never heard this pro-smoking theory before. Do you have shares at any of the major cigarettes manufacturers? :D
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Originally Posted by Luchin_plusplus
These drugs may be dangerous, but are easier to control.
Bu whom? By the smoker smoking only 2 cigarettes on day or by the nice governments who makes 2$ for each pack.
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Originally Posted by Luchin_plusplus
A well made law system will provide the right chance to take advantage of these good altered states, and will inhibit those behaviors that would lead into bad altered states. We all know what excess or misjudgement in the use of nicotine (cancer, respiratory system diseases, etc), caffeine (high blood pressure, loss of digestive ability, etc) and alcohol (beast-like / primitive behaviour, rapes, murder, etc) can do.
Now this pisses me off. :mad: Good altered states? Where did you get this idea from? Books, magazines, some lectures at the university? Do you have any clue how hard it is to quit smoking? And if you don't quit you end up smoking more every passing day until you reach 2 packs per day and wonder how it happened.
So my final point in this discussion is: restricting the use of "legal" drugs is hypocritical. The governements want to keep the cake and eat it at the same time.
If the law makers are so fond of our lives they should ban the drugs altogether. This way kids will not have the chance to "try" them so easily.
Re: smoking-free environment
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Originally Posted by PadexArt
Never heard this pro-smoking theory before. Do you have shares at any of the major cigarettes manufacturers? :D
No, sorry. And, OK, that's a strong point. These three drugs are useful, but not as drugs. Sorry.
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Originally Posted by PadexArt
Bu whom? By the smoker smoking only 2 cigarettes on day or by the nice governments who makes 2$ for each pack.
By the government and by the market. A strong marketing indicating the damaging effects of the drugs, which is something that governments are willing to do anyway, and then complemented with taxes and/or some other market approach. If a stuff is bad AND also it is expensive as hell, you are led to ponder why would you want that stuff ni the first place. Which is what the exposure of the bad effects is for.
This approach is easier to apply than some other law-enforced strategies (hence the "easier to control"). But, as all government-enforced strategies, it relies heavily in the general public learning not to demand.
And...
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Originally Posted by PadexArt
Now this pisses me off. :mad: Good altered states? Where did you get this idea from? Books, magazines, some lectures at the university? Do you have any clue how hard it is to quit smoking? And if you don't quit you end up smoking more every passing day until you reach 2 packs per day and wonder how it happened.
So my final point in this discussion is: restricting the use of "legal" drugs is hypocritical. The governements want to keep the cake and eat it at the same time.
If the law makers are so fond of our lives they should ban the drugs altogether. This way kids will not have the chance to "try" them so easily.
Where did I get that picture from??? Hospitals. College and University studies. Discovery Channel. Neighboors experience. There ARE situations where nicotine, alcohol, caffeine are useful, in the same way there are situations where marihuana is useful (medicals). The thing is, people who are in control of their habits don't want to lose the bonus. And the government and the market do not want to loose that people. That's why the government restricts **PUBLIC USAGE**. Private, specific usages are as such special cases.
With respect to how hard is to quit smoking, I have no clue. I've never smoked. My parents only smoke once a year, if any. Only one of my teachers smokes 2 cigarretes a day. If someone is so attached to the cigarrette that he can not quit smoking, then thats the proof I need to ban public smoking. After all, that what a drug is intended to do...
If one person really wants to qui smoking he need to get medical treatment. These addictions are chemically-induced illness and must be treated. just trying not to smoke is not enough.
And...
For the last...
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No, law makers do not care about our lives. I don't get where did YOU get THAT picture from. Legality is not the same as justice, is not the same as morality, and is not the same as correctness. Legality is only about what things should be punished because they harm the behaviours considered just, moral or correct. But that's what legality is for, not what it is being used for. Ever heard of that "pi should be equal to three" and similar laws? The governements want to keep the cake and eat it at the same time, remember?
And, definitively, smoking in public place is not just or fair (for those who don't smoke, for babies, etc); and depending on caffeine to do everyday's labor (which is one's for pure free will) is not moral; and drinking a bottle before driving is not correct 8because I assume you drive to get to some place, and alcohol prevents that from happenning in the first place).
So... Here I stand.
Re: smoking-free environment
@Luchin, you have made a strong point there and I totally agree with. :thumb:
Re: smoking-free environment
Oh.. My .. God.. such an intense discussion going on still in this thread.. :D I had lost track of it once Hobson gave the reasoning of washing clothers himself.. I took my defeat then and there.. :D
Cigarretes should be banned the same way the other drugs are banned... Their sale should be restricted on the goods that use the ingredients to make something useful...
By the way, here in India, selling cigs/alcohol to people < 18 is not allowed too..
And if Cigs are to be banned.. so should alcohol be :D ... now this will cause some more ignitions.. wont it.. :D
