Are you a vegetarian.

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Originally Posted by exterminator

I remember a joke on this... there was a guy in our class who was our class monitor.. he would always use the word "we" and had got habituated. Once he had to propose to a girl and he said.. ".... <some stupid stuff>.. we love you". :D

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I can imagine what kind of beating he would have got from that girl.

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Originally Posted by exterminator

How would one live without clothes?

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By being naked, I guess :p

Anyways, as far as I know being a veggie/non-veggie or Vegan(which is new to me) does not affect ones personality. It is just the eating habits that are different, the human being itself is same.

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

Anyways, as far as I know being a veggie/non-veggie or Vegan(which is new to me) does not affect ones personality. It is just the eating habits that are different, the human being itself is same.

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But I guess, NV's are of a little violent/rude mindset. More generally though. I don't know if I am true.. but it is like some people say that if you have control over your tongue (related to eating habits ;)) then you are a better person.

The thoughts which originate in your head are a little influenced by what you eat. Food for thought as they rightly say. How many of you do agree with this?

Interesting link : a list of vegan/V musicians... - http://www.angelfire.com/art2/veggies/musicians.html

A more exhaustive list - http://www.ivu.org/people/

Now, what do you have to say? :D ;) Some names are missing from there which you can find at the following link - http://www.codeguru.com/forum/poll.p...lts&pollid=554 :D

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Originally Posted by exterminator

But I guess, NV's are of a little violent/rude mindset. More generally though. I don't know if I am true.. but it is like some people say that if you have control over your tongue (related to eating habits ;)) then you are a better person.

The thoughts which originate in your head are a little influenced by what you eat. Food for thought as they rightly say. How many of you do agree with this?

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Well this exactly is an old saying. But I have seen veggies who get furious for nothing and I have seen non-veggies who are cool and calm.

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

BTW I don't think there is any reason to feel guilty if one eats chicken or meat, it's nature's way to maintain things, animals do eat other animals, they eat humans, why humans should not eat them? It's not like the chicken/pigs are becoming rare species.

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Saying that it's ok because animals do it is not a valid argument.
We, civilised humans, are supposed to be smart, trusting God and not falling into following blindly instincts.
Animal behaviors are usually (at least in my culture) deemed as vile and often bad... fighting to death for females and food or doing other things that humans are not supposed to do.
Animals are not example of high morality... They're however often examples of low morality.

Usually, when someone say that someone else is a son of dog/pig/other_animal it's an insult.

Consequently, I think that we can't say that something is good or acceptable because animals do it.

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

Well this exactly is an old saying. But I have seen veggies who get furious for nothing and I have seen non-veggies who are cool and calm.

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Either way, it's an endless debate, nothing can be established.

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Originally Posted by SuperKoko

Saying that it's ok because animals do it is not a valid argument.

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No no...I am not saying "it's ok because animals do it". I am saying, it's the natural way, every other species do that.

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Originally Posted by SuperKoko

We, civilised humans, are supposed to be smart, trusting God and not falling into following blindly instincts.

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This is funny.

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Originally Posted by SuperKoko

Animal behaviors are usually (at least in my culture) deemed as vile and often bad... fighting to death for females and food or doing other things that humans are not supposed to do.
Animals are not example of high morality... They're however often examples of low morality.

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Okay.

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Originally Posted by SuperKoko

Usually, when someone say that someone else is a son of dog/pig/other_animal it's an insult.

Consequently, I think that we can't say that something is good or acceptable because animals do it.

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Okay....

Still I believe it's natural to eat animal meat, there is nothing wrong in that.
And about the religion, beliefs and it's connection to being civilised.....I think thats pointless or another never ending debate.

People talking about "civilized human behaviour" always make me chuckle. :D

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Originally Posted by SuperKoko

Animal behaviors are usually (at least in my culture) deemed as vile and often bad...

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It is ironic that while this is true for most cultures in today's world, our so-called civilized cultures still actually practise processes involving animals that could be considered pretty inhuman if not barbaric...

Here are some examples derived from my experiences:

In Europe:

• Foie Gras - a delicacy that involves making ducks sick by force-feeding many times a day to make their bodies bloat and the liver sick. This liver (of a sick duck) is actually a delicacy.
• Caviar: Fishes are killed just to get their precious eggs on the market. An entire large fish yields only a few grams of this so-called precious food.

In Asia:

• Elephants made to walk around the streets of crowded cities that the mahouth can make some money.
• Monkeys made to perform to please onlookers.

I often feel that the behaviour of civilized humans is often a lot less acceptable than the primitive behaviour of animals...

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Originally Posted by Siddhartha

People talking about "civilized human behaviour" always make me chuckle. :D

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You know what is civilized about that? A big fish will eat those fishes alive with their jaws... While in this case NV will eat with a knife and a fork on a nicely dressed dining table with family. :D ;)

Are we talking about animal rights now? ;) Well, that would be an interesting discussion as well.. :wave:

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

animals do eat other animals, they eat humans, why humans should not eat them?

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Animals that eat human beings are usually lion, leopard, tiger etc. They are all protected species. If they catch you trying to eat one of them you will go to jail. :D

Speaking of milk. I have a cousin who joined a monastery (called ashram in hindi) and became a trainee swami or balyogi or some such thing. One day he came to our house and some one asked him if he would like his tea with milk and sugar. He said he never drank milk. He went on to say that the calf is entitled to all of it's mother's milk and robbing the calf of it's mother's milk (or participating in the process by being a consumer of milk or milk products) is one of the worst possible sins you can commit. It is more or less the same reasoning followed by the Vegans (i.e. a secular moral viewpoint), but I was surprised to hear the same argument used in a religious context.

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Originally Posted by exterminator

True! True! :)

By the way, how about discussing if (i) Eggs and (ii) Milk are V or NV diet? :D

We quarrelled so much on this one in our school days... :D

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Anything that has got life in it or would become & is kileld for food is is considered a NV diet. Now, plants dont have life, atleast not physically. And its waste to let them die without it being used. Its difference in case of animals. So, Milk is a by product and so is a Veg. But Cow, eggs, fish etc. is NOT.

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Originally Posted by Charu0306

Now, plants dont have life, atleast not physically.

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Huh? Since when? :confused: Please see here for the conventional biological definition of life.

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

BTW I don't think there is any reason to feel guilty if one eats chicken or meat, it's nature's way to maintain things, animals do eat other animals, they eat humans, why humans should not eat them? It's not like the chicken/pigs are becoming rare species.

The only reason could be health related problems, if there are any(I believe there is none).

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Hmmm .... Bird Flu and Swine Fever...

Bird flu has hit the world hard, expecially on the domesticated level... anyone follow the CNN stories of entire farms of chickens that were infected...

and Swine fever has recently poped its head up in South Africa .. Road blocks are set up around the infected area to check for any pork transports. It's now illegal to transport any type of pork out of the area...

Gremmy.....

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Originally Posted by exterminator

Are we talking about animal rights now? ;) Well, that would be an interesting discussion as well.. :wave:

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Actually, certain modern practices and animal rights issues almost go hand in hand...

For example: Here is a protest against KFC featuring Pamela Anderson...

(Now, I know what makes you click that link... :D )

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Originally Posted by Siddhartha

Actually, certain modern practices and animal rights issues almost go hand in hand...

For example: Here is a protest against KFC featuring Pamela Anderson...

(Now, I know what makes you click that link... :D )

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This was a real Eye opener .. thanks Sid...

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Originally Posted by gstercken

Huh? Since when? :confused: Please see here for the conventional biological definition of life.

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Huh? I said NOT Physically, but biologically YES, they have life. But again, there no killing involved with plants. When have we heard plants screaming to death when they are cooked? :) You are contradicting yourself.

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Originally Posted by Siddhartha

Actually, certain modern practices and animal rights issues almost go hand in hand...

For example: Here is a protest against KFC featuring Pamela Anderson...

(Now, I know what makes you click that link... :D )

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That shook me. I couldnt see it. :( Thats a shame really. Thats too much animal cruelty.

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When have we heard plants screaming to death when they are cooked? You are contradicting yourself.

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There have been studies over the years that do indicate systemic reactions to damage or extreme environments. Who it to put a hard definition on "scream"?

ps: At least animals to have a (miniscule) chance to run away :D

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Originally Posted by Charu0306

When have we heard plants screaming to death when they are cooked?

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Have you ever heard animals screaming to death when they are cooked?
I don't cook animals when they're still alive. :D

Seriously, sellfish have a very primitive nervous system and have no notion of pain... As there are plants with an even more primitive "nervous" system that react to stimulations (like Mimosa Pudica).

Pain is only useful in species clever enough to change their overall behavior when they suffer and doesn't exist in more primitive species.

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Originally Posted by Charu0306

, there no killing involved with plants. When have we heard plants screaming to death when they are cooked? :) You are contradicting yourself.

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Okay, now if plants have life, why do you even rob them if not killing? and who told you that plants are not killed for food, most of the green veg are killed(taken off from ground) completly and sent sold.

Do you think plant were born only to produce food for humans? Don't you think they might have diff. purpose behind producing those seeds, leaves, fruits? Isn't taking those things away from those plants a robbery?

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Originally Posted by Charu0306

,
:) You are contradicting yourself.

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So are you. :)

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Originally Posted by SuperKoko

Have you ever heard animals screaming to death when they are cooked?
I don't cook animals when they're still alive. :D

Seriously, sellfish have a very primitive nervous system and have no notion of pain... As there are plants with an even more primitive "nervous" system that react to stimulations (like Mimosa Pudica).

Pain is only useful in species clever enough to change their overall behavior when they suffer and doesn't exist in more primitive species.

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:D :lol: Good One Superkoko... :thumb:

That's right - plants are killed for food.
In fact, we even boil them alive.

I think the biggest difference between consuming plants and consuming animals as far as humans go is that - humans are not plants. Eating animals from certain perspectives comes really close to the boundary of eating another of one's own kind (and hence close to wild animal behaviour).

Even when it comes to consuming animals, what is one culture's bread and butter (for example: dogs eaten in Korea) is absolutely *yuck* to another. There were (still are?) some primitive tribes that are are non-vegetarians to the extent that they are cannibalistic. Then, as far as non-vegetarianism goes, what is so wrong in one culture consuming human flesh if consuming goats and chicken is allowed in another?

Clearly, even ardent non-vegetarians still believe in and impose limits... :D

OTOH, vegetarians don't stray into this area. ;)

In favor of V's against NV's, I have to say that okay robbing vegetables etc is bad but committing a robbery somewhere doesn't give you eligibility to murder.. :D

Humans are the most cruel mammals...

The way I read the article, people with higher IQs become vegetarians. Being a vegitarian wont give you a higher IQ.

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Originally Posted by Siddhartha

Even when it comes to consuming animals, what is one culture's bread and butter (for example: dogs eaten in Korea) is absolutely *yuck* to another. There were (still are?) some primitive tribes that are are non-vegetarians to the extent that they are cannibalistic. Then, as far as non-vegetarianism goes, what is so wrong in one culture consuming human flesh if consuming goats and chicken is allowed in another?

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:D

I recall Silence of the lambs now... OMG! :eek:

Really, vegetarians are "accepted" all over! No "yucks"! :)

Well, I have another point :D

"It is far more efficient for us to eat plants directly than to eat meat, which requires an animal to eat up to 10 times as much vegetable food in order for us to gain the same food value."

Well, another one! :D

"almost any vegetarian food can be taken without necessarily killing a plant. For example, we need not kill to gather ripe fruits and nuts, berries, melons, seeds, legumes, tomatoes, squashes, pumpkins, cucumber, okras, peppers and so many other vegetables. Potatoes are dug from the ground after the plant has died. We can pick a few leafy greens at a time in our own garden, leaving the plant alive and well. Vegetables are generally annuals, harvested at the end of their natural life."

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Originally Posted by Siddhartha

I think the biggest difference between consuming plants and consuming animals as far as humans go is that - humans are not plants. Eating animals from certain perspectives comes really close to the boundary of eating another of one's own kind (and hence close to wild animal behaviour).

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Very true, indeed.

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Originally Posted by exterminator

"It is far more efficient for us to eat plants directly than to eat meat, which requires an animal to eat up to 10 times as much vegetable food in order for us to gain the same food value."

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Actually, It has been the major reason of the low-meat diets of approximatively everybody one century ago and before.

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"almost any vegetarian food can be taken without necessarily killing a plant. For example, we need not kill to gather ripe fruits and nuts, berries, melons, seeds, legumes, tomatoes, squashes, pumpkins, cucumber, okras, peppers and so many other vegetables. Potatoes are dug from the ground after the plant has died. We can pick a few leafy greens at a time in our own garden, leaving the plant alive and well. Vegetables are generally annuals, harvested at the end of their natural life."

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It's also possible with meat... Vulture & other beasts eat only dead animals...

Note also that a multicellular living being is several living beings at a time....
In fact, we can say that a being composed of N cells contains N+1 living beings (assuming that a living being is a complex stuff that is able to preserve homeostasia via energetic consuming mechanisms and is able either to reproduce itself or to regenerate against approximatively any minor damage).
1 for the total being.
1 for each cell.

Usually, when we eat vegetables (except if they're really not fresh), cells are still living, and we kill them.
:p

Actually, I saw a report on TV a few months back (BBC / CNN) where scientists have been able to grow tissues of animals such as pigs, etc in laboratories in a size and scale that makes them consumable by humans.

Thus, may be, in the future not too far away, supermarkets will be full of beef and pork that actually never required an animal to be executed. :D

(Wonder if pork eaters will then be accepted into the vegetarian community the way milk-drinkers and egg-consumers have been? :D )

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

Okay, now if plants have life, why do you even rob them if not killing? and who told you that plants are not killed for food, most of the green veg are killed(taken off from ground) completly and sent sold.

Do you think plant were born only to produce food for humans? Don't you think they might have diff. purpose behind producing those seeds, leaves, fruits? Isn't taking those things away from those plants a robbery?


So are you. :)

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That makes a lot of difference. Its common sense to find out that its bilogically active and not a physical lief like humans and aniimals live. Writing somehting for the sake of argument doesnt make any point. And as far as ribbing is concerned, May be you are used to it. Not me. :wave:

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Originally Posted by Charu0306

That makes a lot of difference. Its common sense to find out that its bilogically active and not a physical lief like humans and aniimals live. Writing somehting for the sake of argument doesnt make any point. And as far as ribbing is concerned, May be you are used to it. Not me. :wave:

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Believe me I am not talking things only for an argument here, most of my lifetime(19 years) I was pure vegeterian, I found out that there is no sense in the beliefs implanted in me by everyone else about eating meat.

It's just an interpretation, if someone would have taught you to consider's plants(the ones we eat) as gods then you would have been on other side, so it's all what you know, or what your surroundings told you, now it's hard to give unbiased opinion. So it's ok if you say so.

:)

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

It's just an interpretation, if someone would have taught you to consider's plants(the ones we eat) as gods then you would have been on other side, ...

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No, it is not really like that. There are a few trees and plants which are considered holy. For example : Tulsi and Neem and the peculiar thing is Tulsi does serve as a Prasad component. Tulsi is worshipped and well taken care of.. taking leafs for prasad doesn't mean destroying it. Additionaly, it is very healthy and used in several medicines in Ayurvedic treatments. Why would I want to be on the other side?

Hi,
Its not what people teach us to beleive, we are at an age where we can think and make decisions on our own. So, I DONT believe using wheat or rice is killing crops but merely using it. But killing life is KILLING. Now if we argue plants have life, probably you can prove table, chair and any other non-living thing has life too...:)

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Originally Posted by Charu0306

Its not what people teach us to beleive, we are at an age where we can think and make decisions on our own. So, I DONT believe using wheat or rice is killing crops but merely using it. But killing life is KILLING. Now if we argue plants have life, probably you can prove table, chair and any other non-living thing has life too...:)

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What are you talking about? Can you read what you wrote, once, and see if it makes sense? I don't think you are at that age... table, chair etc and plants are different things but if you are saying cutting trees for wooden chair is okay, you are so wrong! In our forests, it is prohibited. It is another matter that people might still be doing it.

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Originally Posted by exterminator

No, it is not really like that. There are a few trees and plants which are considered holy. For example : Tulsi and Neem and the peculiar thing is Tulsi does serve as a Prasad component. Tulsi is worshipped and well taken care of.. taking leafs for prasad doesn't mean destroying it. Additionaly, it is very healthy and used in several medicines in Ayurvedic treatments. Why would I want to be on the other side?

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Well take my sentense this way, "whats if we were taught to believe trees and plants are not supposed to be touched at all". Do you see the difference now? All I wanted to convey is most of us do exactly how they were taught to do, mostly no one tries to think beyond that.

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Originally Posted by Charu0306

Hi,
Its not what people teach us to beleive, we are at an age where we can think and make decisions on our own. So, I DONT believe using wheat or rice is killing crops but merely using it. But killing life is KILLING. Now if we argue plants have life, probably you can prove table, chair and any other non-living thing has life too...:)

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Now you are talking for the sake of argument. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

Well take my sentense this way, "whats if we were taught to believe trees and plants are not supposed to be touched at all". Do you see the difference now? All I wanted to convey is most of us do exactly how they were taught to do, mostly no one tries to think beyond that.

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Well, what you try to convey with not touching things does not make sense. It is something that would not have been taught to us under any circumstances. It is impossible to live and not to touch trees and plants. However, what we are discussing is something that is possible - not eating non-veg and survive is possible... and not just possible it will not cause "any" issues what-so-ever! You cannot make those assumptions as they are flawed to their base... :)

Regarding believing what we get taught is what one will... but if you are not taught to think rationally, you will not think rationally. You cannot think beyond that. And even if you tried thinking beyond that, you would still be inside a circle. A circle which is created out of others teachings, value system, environment, culture and past experiences. A person cannot think beyond what he is taught or get out of the other influencing factors as I mentioned in the last sentence.

If you are thinking rationally, you have been taught to think rationally. This is one of the most true limitations of human thought and behaviour. Accept it or not.. but just think about it and you shall agree! :)

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

Now you are talking for the sake of argument. :rolleyes:

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I agree! :)

Slightly off topic.. can be improved... conclusion is incomplete but still I think will be a good read - take a look - http://abnegator.blogspot.com/2006/11/reflections.html

Well I could go on and on, and I know everyone else can. :)...So I am signing out from this topic. :D

<BTW>that doesn't mean my belief is changed. :D</BTW>

!!Peace!! ;)

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

Well I could go on and on, and I know everyone else can. :)...So I am signing out from this topic. :D

<BTW>that doesn't mean my belief is changed. :D</BTW>

!!Peace!! ;)

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Krishnaa, please don't...! Workplace is a bit boring during the Holiday seasons... let's keep fighting...

Arguments don't happen to make others change their beliefs.. One's beliefs is at one's discretion! :)

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Originally Posted by exterminator

Krishnaa, please don't...! Workplace is a bit boring during the Holiday seasons... let's keep fighting...

Arguments don't happen to make others change their beliefs.. One's beliefs is at one's discretion! :)

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:lol: :lol: :D.....Well we have many other soldiers in play. Let me spectate for some time. ;)

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

:lol: :lol: :D.....Well we have many other soldiers in play. Let me spectate for some time. ;)

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No! No! No! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Vegetarians are so terribly outnumbered... Scary actually... It may just be a matter of time that they land on dinner plates... :eek:

Seriously, how come CG seems to have no vegetarians that are not Indians? :D

There was a time when I used to believe that only Asians (india mostly) can be pure vegetarians, and all other english speaking people eat meat daily. :)

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Originally Posted by Siddhartha

Vegetarians are so terribly outnumbered... Scary actually... It may just be a matter of time that they land on dinner plates... :eek:

Seriously, how come CG seems to have no vegetarians that are not Indians? :D

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One more vote in Veg and the ratio will be The PI(22/7) .

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Originally Posted by Krishnaa

One more vote in Veg and the ratio will be The PI(22/7) .

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Unbelievable but true -- it happened!

Proof of the Pi is in the eating

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Originally Posted by Charu0306

Like it or not, Veg food is most healthy and atleast I can take it without being guilty! And I take food for survival and not for the sake of getting tasty food all the time! I do love food but stick to clean, veggie food. :) I think some of the world's most talented ones have been Veggies, that doesnt mean non-vegetarians are dumb, it just means eating non-veg just doesnt give taht edge over others or something....talent mostly is cultivated over a period of time. So, I dont think its related to IQ.

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You can't be sure that animal products were not used to fertilise the soil. It is quite possible that some pesticides were used to kill off any wildlife that may have tried to get access to the crops. The farmland used to grown the produce may have been taken away from wildlife inhabitants.

So you cannot be certain that no animals were harmed in the production of your vegetable products.

In addition, very few vegetarians actually know what might not contain animal products. On a recent album cover by Morrissey (or maybe it was a single cover, I'm not sure) he is eating an ice-cream which quite possibly is not vegetarian because they often use gelatin in making soft ice-creams of the type he was eating. (Morrissey is one of music's most celebrated vegetarians).

That's correct - even staunch vegetarians tend to unknowingly consume animal products either directly or indirectly.

There are however vegetarians that do avoid gelatin like the plague - as it is made of animal bones, paws, et al... ;)
(It is important to read the ingredients even when purchasing your favorite ice cream or pudding!)

Agar-agar is a vegetraian alternative to Gelatin that many manufacturers use:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar_agar

...But unfortunately, not them all.

In India, most packaged food products, medicines, and some other things like face cream, toothpaste etc. have a green mark on their packages to denote that it contains (or rather is produced using) only vegetatrian ingredients.

I am however not sure as one of the popular toothpaste has it, even though it says it is rich in calcium (and I suppose it is extraxted from animal bones..)

Most of the medicines also use animal products. Even in Ayurveda, Indian alternative medicine system, animal parts are used (supposedly).

I dont think anyone can be sure that what he/she is using is actually pure veg.