C had the same problem, then C+ came along, then C++ and now v11. Quite different, and for the better
Printable View
C had the same problem, then C+ came along, then C++ and now v11. Quite different, and for the better
I'm not entirely sure about this, as I've had a few DLL version mismatches/conflicts even with xp, such as when installing VB6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coder Dave
Interesting. And yes, there certainly are plenty of programming platforms/languages around besides .net. But one of the irritating things which comes up in these sorts of topics is how many people seem to forget that, as if they're "forced" to use .net just because it's what Microsoft is pushing. Two others which are more-or-less a flavor of Basic include RealBasic and LibertyBasic. There's also Delphi, and some open-source projects as well. Heck, I'd even consider creating one too, if it was a group effort.Quote:
In other words, the .NET run-time will be incorporated into the Windows operating system, if this has not already been done. Microsoft could then phase out executable files with byte code files taking their place. Microsoft would essentially become another Apple, forcing third party software vendors to use Microsoft's development tools and possibly taking a chunk of the software revenue as well. Apple already does this. They get 30% of anything sold through their App Store and their iOS development environment forces developers to use their App Store. Microsoft sees how much money Apple is making and they want that money too.
If Microsoft does this, I predict there would be a major migration to Linux or other operating systems, although Microsoft would surely still enjoy a hefty piece of the market. Some people simply would not upgrade to the so-called "latest and greatest" version of Windows, much like people stopped upgrading to Windows Vista. Unfortunately, this may prevent them from upgrading their hardware as well since the older versions of Windows will no longer be available and may not take advantage of new hardware features. Of course, hackers will find a way around this, but their actions will not be deemed legal by Microsoft. That will not help people like us who are trying to make an honest living.
Sorry for getting a little off topic here, but your fight to save Visual Basic 6 may ultimately be a fight to save Windows as we know it. There are a lot of other non-.NET languages out there, so I doubt Microsoft will ever be completely successful.
Basic for QT...Basic for QT...Basic for QT...Quote:
Two others which are more-or-less a flavor of Basic include RealBasic and LibertyBasic.
Yeah. OK, so I downloaded the humungous installation file, and installed it. Thus far I'm not very impressed. However, this thread isn't an appropriate place to discuss it.Quote:
Originally Posted by treddie
When you look at the speed of progress for all the technologies out there, like parallel programming, programing the GPU, new platforms like metro, the phone and tablets, there is so much to keep up with as a programmer to stay competitive without wishing that MS would revive VB6 - even if that were possible.
It's NOT, though...
That is so true!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Even the qualifications for .NET ( The MCSD / MCPD / MCSD ) keeps on changing; it is so difficult to keep up. I got to a point where I decided well, I'm not going to write any of those exams, because one month from now there is something "better"....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Of course it's possible. Any program can be updated, as long as they still have the source code. However, what I would not want is for VB6 to become bloatware.Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
Maybe possible, but most likely impractical.Quote:
Originally Posted by WizBang
I just don't see MS spending the investment, especially since there doesn't appear to be any gain for Microsoft.
I'll agree that updating VB6 doesn't fit into their playbook. That's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
However, the good news is that there's no reason why VB6, and programs written with it, won't continue to function for some time to come. Just because it hasn't gotten a facelift recently doesn't mean it's unusable.
Perhaps those who view programming with the same "soundbite mentality" as is the case for Hollywood gossip, and pop music's flavor of the day, may always find themselves jumping on the latest bandwagon. Thus always feeling like they're constantly playing a game of catch-up.
The whole "Desktop App" concept is on it's way out, I think. The benefits outweigh the other options
Personally I use most heavily VB6 and VB.Net 2005 for development. Slowly moving to VB 2008 and still have a few projects in VB 2003 and a few in EVB 3 that I have to support but are not worth converting or updating. I also do a little C# when I have the extra time [still learning C# so am a bit slower there]
VB 2010 I have used very little, only a bit for playing around with Windows Phone and XBox 360 stuff and VB 2012 is loaded but have not written a line of code in it yet. This is largely because I do a lot of work for Windows CE and Windows Mobile devices which are not supported past the 2008 version.
I think profitability is in their playbook - as it should be for any corporation.Quote:
Originally Posted by WizBang
Coming this August, VB6 will have been around 15 years. Isn't that a long enough [vb]run?Quote:
Originally Posted by WizBang
I don't think I've have the "soundbite mentality" - instead I have the "need to be competitive so I can stay employed mentality". For proof, it's simple enough to compare the percentage of VB6 jobs available 15 years ago with the same today. As a programmer, I need to be at least near the cutting edge so I can remain employed. Perhaps all areas aren't this way, but in my area there aren't too many VB6 jobs around.Quote:
Originally Posted by WizBang
Honestly, I don't want a job where I have to program in the same language that I've programmed in for the past 15 years. To me, that would be torture. I guess other folks don't want to upset the apple cart and are happy with not learning anything new. I would have to get out of the business if that were the case for me.
I do feel that I always play catch up, though. In our business there is always so much to learn - SQL, Entity Framework, WPF, WCF, MVC, Razor, Azure, PPL, AMP, Parallel programming, pair programming, TDD, not to mention programming on all the new form factors. I enjoy the challenge and don't worry about the folks that don't want to stay current, because I know that eventually, I'll have their job. I also know that eventually, I'll slip up, get complacent and won't be current, then someone else will get my job and I'll need to retire. In two weeks, I'll have been programming for 19 years - I think I have about another 16 in me. I can't even begin to think of the changes that will occur in the next 16 years. Looking forward to it.
One might think so. But consider that C++ has been around quite a bit longer (since 1983 according to Wikipedia). Not only is C++ still in heavy use today, but guess what Microsoft continues to use extensively, even to create the windows OS itself? Rather than be abandoned, C++ has been updated over the years. I think what many would argue is that the classic VB could (and should) continue to be updated as well. While vb.net may bear some syntactical resemblance, it most certainly isn't an update to VB6. No more than RealBasic, LibertyBasic, Basic for QT, or other forms of Basic would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Point well taken. Although, the independent programmer does not have the same pressures. I admit I sometimes forget what it's like to be in such a rat race.Quote:
I don't think I've have the "soundbite mentality" - instead I have the "need to be competitive so I can stay employed mentality". For proof, it's simple enough to compare the percentage of VB6 jobs available 15 years ago with the same today. As a programmer, I need to be at least near the cutting edge so I can remain employed. Perhaps all areas aren't this way, but in my area there aren't too many VB6 jobs around.
I cannot argue against that. I also enjoy continuous challenge. And in fact, I do feel that I've taken VB6 just about as far as it can go, which I why I'd like to see it get updated. I use the windows API for everything where it makes sense, so most times the performance is quite good. But unless classic VB gets more powerful, or another form of Basic picks up the torch, I think I may end up going to C++. It certainly beats the pants off .net, at least for my purposes.Quote:
Honestly, I don't want a job where I have to program in the same language that I've programmed in for the past 15 years. To me, that would be torture. I guess other folks don't want to upset the apple cart and are happy with not learning anything new. I would have to get out of the business if that were the case for me.
I do feel that I always play catch up, though. In our business there is always so much to learn - SQL, Entity Framework, WPF, WCF, MVC, Razor, Azure, PPL, AMP, Parallel programming, pair programming, TDD, not to mention programming on all the new form factors. I enjoy the challenge and don't worry about the folks that don't want to stay current, because I know that eventually, I'll have their job. I also know that eventually, I'll slip up, get complacent and won't be current, then someone else will get my job and I'll need to retire. In two weeks, I'll have been programming for 19 years - I think I have about another 16 in me. I can't even begin to think of the changes that will occur in the next 16 years. Looking forward to it.
Not much pure C programming is being developed... (except on Apple, perhaps)
FWIW - Just heard... "... think VB6 support is extended till 2016, so Windows 8 supports VB6." No Transparent Icons though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizBang
The Future of C++ :Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
http://www.codeguru.com/blog/categor...ture-of-c.html
I think a few of us may relate to these sentiments
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/jj133828.aspx
Quote:
Originally Posted by George1111
I agree, and here's a new article (and they will keep coming because VB6 community began to wake up):
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/...rful-than-ever
From the codeproject article:
I heard that FoxPro is making a comeback as well. :) Seriously, there is little incentive for Microsoft to spin up a new, modern VB6 effort.Quote:
We have to force Microsoft's hand to reintroduce VB6 to the market, of course, under the same name and fully compatible with future Windows OS’s!
MS bought FoxPro, so all seems lost...
(Never used it, since I used Paradox back then)
??Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
That happened a very very long time ago, somewhere around version 2.6 or so? MS continued to update and continue the product for 15 years and the last version is apparently compatible with Windows 2k - win8 so I have no idea what to make of your comment.
Ok course the making a comeback part int he post before was a joke,
Yeah, I probably shouldn't be joking as I know there are folks that still use VB6 and would like MS to update it. I just don't think Microsoft has any interest in doing so. What might be more achievable is to get MS to release the VB6 source code as open source so the community could take it where they wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
And they won't EVER release the source code.
Perhaps, but they may make the source code available as an open source project like they have done in other areas. Realistically, I think there is no chance for Microsoft to resurrect VB6 and make it an active project maintained by Microsoft. There might be a chance for VB released as open source. Even this would require a significant amount of work as prepping the VB6 source code for release as open source would take quite a bit of resources. It isn't like MS could just hand over the code without first going through it. In the end, giving the amount of work this would take, I wouldn't have high hopes it would happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
I agree with dglienna, the source code of VB6 has small chances to be given to the VB6 community, BUT, the chances that a new version of VB6 will be reintroduced to the market, are very high!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Given the last VB6 release occurred 16 years ago, it doesn't seem likely. I guess one can continue to hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
Really? I wonder why you would think that. I figure the chances are pretty much non existent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
I say this because there are many, many VB6 programmers. How do you figure the chances ? Are you a decision guru from the Visual Studio team ? :)
There are a lot less now than there were a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
There have been lots of posts and petitions over the years to try and get MS to do some updated version of VB that closely resembles VB6 but it has not gotta any results and very likely will not get any. MS made a decision to change VB to use the .Net framework and they are sticking with it. They did so for Vb7, 8, 9, 10 and so on. VB6 while still a good tool and very functional is of the past. Would you think they would also bring back Windows 98 or Windows NT? Perhaps we will see a new version of Dos 6 coming out soon as well ;)
Those VB6 programmers out there that want to develop for other devices need to get with the times and learn something from this decade. Something that is meant to work with these devices.
Unless Windows 9 is going to be the new DOS (which I doubt)
Actually there are more VB6 developers in 2014 than in 2009-2010. You don't understand the point of this. It will be a new VB6 which will make applications on other platforms too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
You said yourself, you still do programming in VB6, and, if you want to develop for other devices, you use .NET. Why do you presume that other VB6 developers don't do the same .... All VB6 programmers keep up with the times, using Java and C++, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
I do not understand you! You like VB6 but you're against it ?! what happens here ?!
And how would you know this? There are a lot less than there were in the past. Most companies have moved from VB6 to .Net well before 2009.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
Of course I still use it and I use VB 7, 8, 9 as well. All depends on what I need. I also use Windows 2000 and Windows XP. That doesn't mean MS is going to make a new Windows XP.Quote:
You said yourself, you still do programming in VB6, and, if you want to develop for other devices, you use .NET. Why do you presume that other VB6 developers don't do the same ....
No they don't. A lot of them have never even touched either of those languages in fact a lot of them don't even really know VB6 very well.Quote:
All VB6 programmers keep up with the times, using Java and C++, of course.
The question is valid for you too: And how would you know this? There are a lot MORE VB6 programmers than there were in the past. Actually I know by the number of VB6 projects from 2013, however, you're saying "less" without any support ... you just want it to be so ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
Actually Microsoft made a new version of XP, it is called Windows Longhorn and after that Windows Vista and after that Win 7 ...! but, Microsoft did not make VB .NET as the new version of VB6 ...Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
How do you know this ? You assume a lot about the VB6 community without any support! Before you speak, make a research about VB6 programmers on the internet ... you will see the point eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
I have worked in the field since before VB6 was released. The job market started moving toward .Net in the early 2000s and more and more VB6 programmers moved to VB.Net and/or C#. 1: because it is more powerful, 2: because that is where the jobs are.
Sure there are a lot of people who use VB 6 still, a very large number of those are beginners and quite a few do not even have a legal copy of VB6.
As for doing research do I really need to? I have been paying attention to this subject for the last 15 years. I think i have a pretty good idea of where the trends are.
As for how I know that not all VB6 users write in Java and C++, well it is extremely obvious seeing that I have talked to and helped hundreds of VB6 programers and I personally know several of them and I myself do not use Java at all unless you count Java Script as Java which I have did a little of.
Also the lame attempt at a comeback to my XP comment is just that, lame, I am not talking about a development version from several years back.
Of course not, there is no other version of VB6 VB5 was VB5 VB7 is VB7 only VB6 is VB6 yet the VB7 [e.g. VB.Net] Does build off of VB6 and it was the new version of VB it is just different, just like VB4 is different than VB3 and VB5 is different than VB4 and all of these are much different from VBDos. It is all part of the evolution of MS Basic which was very very much different.Quote:
Microsoft did not make VB .NET as the new version of VB6
You're claiming that there are more VB6 projects in 2013... More than what? Cite your sources. Post a link that supports your claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
Of course, some are found in a simple Bing/Google search:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/fo...improved-versi
http://www.planetsourcecode.com/vb/s...75121&lngWId=1
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/...rful-than-ever
http://www.theranking.com/what-is-th...e-world_r55229
http://sandsprite.com/blogs/index.php?uid=11&pid=238
I'm actually mad because you should support this cause, who knows, maybe for once, Microsoft listens to the community.
The same VB.NET programmers continued heavily to program in VB6. I'm a multi language programmer, but still I am attracted of VB6 like a magnet.Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
I know that sounds weird, but VB6 (as a programming language) is more powerful than VB .NET. I can prove these claims by showing some VB6 projects. But the thing with the jobs it is also important.
Even more important, if they are a lot of beginners, it means that Microsoft does not get rid of VB6 for the next 20 years :) 70-80% of them do not have license for VB6 because they can not buy licenses for years (is not on the market).Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
you never know what can happen :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
I think that everyone went where the wind has blown, some on Java, some on C++, some in VB .NET, some in the scripting languages and so on ...Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
Lame, lame :) trueQuote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
You realy lost me on "VB6 VB5 was VB5 VB7 is VB7 only VB6 is VB6 yet the VB7 [e.g. VB.Net]". But, my plea to this forum is to support VB6.Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
Nice articles, but not one mentions any data to support the user base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
Why be mad? I have the opinion that developers are better off staying with current technologies rather than hoping MS will bring back 16 year old technology. I am of the opinion that a dev can be more productive with later technologies if they bother to learn them. I also believe that current technologies are more marketable in terms of employment (at least in my area), but perhaps other areas are stuck in a time warp?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
The new version of VB is VB.NET. Full stop. Microsoft will not change .NET. When you say that VB 6 is much more powerful than .NET, then you do not know .NET at all.
Also, there isn't more VB 6 programmers out there. If that was the case then there would be a lot more people without jobs.
This is 2014. Do you know the term IoT ( Internet of Things ), well, that is the latest trend, and if you want to adapt to that trend I suggest you forget about VB 6.
I do not understand why you are so persistent in forcing your opinion onto us. Everybody that has responded to this thread has a lot of experience in both VB 6 and .NET. We do not claim to know people who are against the .NET Framework and still living in the 20'th century.
Where can I find this list a gurus?
Prove your statistics ( about VB 6 being used more )
Prove your statistics ( that VB 6 programmers rather adapted C and Java, and not C# or VB.NET )
Look, I am not trying to be mean, but really, this pipe dream of yours will unfortunately never eventuate. It is the same we force Nokia to bring back the 3310 model. It is the same as us forcing Mazda to bring back their older versions of cars. We are supposed to go forward, not backward.
Thes elinks you have provided do not mean that there are more VB 6 apps out there than .NET.
Let us take a look at each link :
http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/fo...improved-versi
This is just people asking to have VB 6 alive again. Always with the words "Silent Majority" which can mean anything and is quite relative. I live in South Africa, and trust me VB 6 is quite dead here. Also keep in mind that South Africa is not a very technological country such as USA.
http://www.planetsourcecode.com/vb/s...75121&lngWId=1
This is just a VB 6 app, with the author's personal opinion, that simply links to :
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/...rful-than-ever
Again, no proven source. You say we have to prove our sources. I can in one word. Experience.
http://www.theranking.com/what-is-th...e-world_r55229
This was created 4 days agao and is quite biased. Why, I suppose it is the same legion of people from the other articles. I tried to vote but got a message that TheRanking is experiencing problems.
http://www.sandsprite.com/blogs/inde...uid=11&pid=238
Does not want to open.
I read your two posts. I do not like when someone makes me a liar when I bring solid arguments and I really do not appreciate it. None of the above links are biased. Your experience is relative in programming. Moreover, I do not think you're aware of what's happening. You want to convince us to give up Visual Basic 6.0 because you want it so? Who are you to dictate to me (or to others) that ?! I do not see why you struggle so much against Visual Basic 6.0, a programming language whose appearance will not affect you or orher programming languages (but you must have a reason, a paid one).Quote:
Originally Posted by HanneSThEGreaT
Today I got the daily Mail List from Planet Source Code with 30 new VB6 source codes posts. The other day 6 new posts, the day before yesterday 21 posts ... and that only on PSC, in the world there are hundreds of posts/day!
Show me a programming language that has so many new projects posts per day as Visual Basic 6.0 has !
PS: you make me laugh, even on Facebook there are 22 groups for Visual Basic 6.0, all talking and posting new code ! even in VB .NET groups there are VB6 discussions on projects!
Ginerica, please leave personal attacks out of the responses. I realize you are passionate about the subject, but folks responding to you don't need to see those types of responses.
Please understand that the people that have responded (me excluded) have been involved in the VB community and have donated their time to answer VB related questions for many years, so their replies should carry a bit of weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
ok, but if there is a high chance for VB6 to appear in a new version, why to obscure that ? what is the reason for the comments that can stop this ?! (especially that his opinion weighs)
Microsoft has a right to take their business in any direction they choose. 16 years ago or longer, they choose to discontinue native VB (i.e. VB6). There is practically zero chance that folks could make a compelling business case to convince Microsoft that it would be profitable to create a new version of VB. From a business standpoint, a few comments on the internet aren't enough to convince the decision makers at MS. When you look at this from an economic point of view, it doesn't make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
from an economic point of view?! realy ?! How do you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
The people are speaking increasingly often of suing Microsot for Visual Basic 6.0
We are modern. You are NOT!Quote:
How do you know?
QUOTE: "This throws us into an older conclusion, namely if it is new it is not necessary better. " :), but Visual Basic 6.0 is !Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
Let's check into this thread a few times over the next couple of years to find out if Microsoft has been forced to bring back VB6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
In the meantime, I think I'll spend my time staying up on current technologies. Heck, I already know how to program in VB6 so if it's brought back, I have nothing to lose.