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wouldn't you say this ?Quote:
El programador mejor de todos tiempos.
Quote:
El mejor programador de todos los tiempos.
I'm sure they make more than up for that :p There are more people that make jokes about Belgians than Belgians making jokes about the French :pQuote:
Originally posted by The Beast
France isn't that bad as neighbour, we just like to make fun of you a bit, and I'm sure it is mutual.
Here are the top posters on this thread (this is for you Xeon ;))
- Sonu Kapoor 151
- Simon666 125
- Yves M 119
- Ungi 91
- Marina Vaillant 80
- Elrond 80
- Xeon 68
- JeffB 55
- Gabriel Fleseriu 46
- irona20 44
Hmmm....if we would roll it up from the other end I would definitely lead... :cool:Quote:
Originally posted by Yves M
Here are the top posters on this thread (this is for you Xeon ;))
- Sonu Kapoor 151
- Simon666 125
- Yves M 119
- Ungi 91
- Marina Vaillant 80
- Elrond 80
- Xeon 68
- JeffB 55
- Gabriel Fleseriu 46
- irona20 44
I don't. I'm not home sick at all. But a lot of other foreigners I know are. I think it just depends on the people. I'd say that my country is the world. I can miss a few French products (especially for food, once again), but not the country itself, and not even my family (as I still have contacts with them through phone and emails,...). If I had to go to another country, I guess it would be more or less the same, and I would probably miss Irish Guinness...Quote:
Originally posted by Xeon
Anyway, as u folks are aware of, some of you programmers are currently working in another country right now.
For example, Elrond is a French working in Ireland now.
The thing I wanna ask u guys about is : when you work in a foreign land, won't you feel kinda lost and home-sick?
Won't you think of home and such?
I was thinking........if I ever settle down in Australia or the US one of these days, I might feel lost and such. Probably I would be totally suited to the life-style after sometime, but then I'm quite sure I would think of home and such. That's the thing.
Even if I get to sleep with 600 foreign gurls per second when I'm in a foreign country, I doubt that would cure my home-sickness. :):D
Just note that he said more people in the first part (this means not only french, as almost every french speaking persons (and more?)make jokes about Belgians), and Belgians in the second part (as mainly Belgians are making jokes about French) :D:p;):DQuote:
From Yves M
I'm sure they make more than up for that There are more people that make jokes about Belgians than Belgians making jokes about the French
Guys,
this is maybe my last post for the next six weeks. Have fun in this thread. See ya in six weeks.
-Sonu
SIX WEEKS!!! WHOA!
It is one month and a half, it will be mid-november... We'll probably have a ton of snow here and just %&#% about Winter starting, cold day, short day, winter tire that cost $$$, anyway...
- Have fun Sonu
- Come back here
- Don't think too much about us these next 6 weeks...
- Don't drink and drive
- But drink enough for all of us
- Do not forget to take pictures with a digital camera...
- Not pictures of you, some are jealous... ;)
- Enjoy your trip!
JeffB
Alright...have a safe trip and enjoy your vacations... :cool:Quote:
Originally posted by Sonu Kapoor
Guys,
this is maybe my last post for the next six weeks. Have fun in this thread. See ya in six weeks.
-Sonu
From Yves M:Again, Yves........how did u get that statistics???!!! :eek:Quote:
Here are the top posters on this thread (this is for you Xeon )
Also, Marina is not posting much these few weeks. That's great. Soon, I'll be able to reach No. 6 real fast. :D
From Elrond:
Let's face it : Elrond is currently at a stage somewhere between Angel and Human. In fact, he has already transcend all things on Earth. He is the Wind, the Wind is him. The Oceans lies in him, and he lies in the Oceans.Quote:
I don't. I'm not home sick at all. But a lot of other foreigners I know are. I think it just depends on the people. I'd say that my country is the world. I can miss a few French products (especially for food, once again), but not the country itself, and not even my family (as I still have contacts with them through phone and emails,...). If I had to go to another country, I guess it would be more or less the same, and I would probably miss Irish Guinness...
The Fire is in his veins, and his veins is in the Fire. He is the Heavens, and the Heavens is him. He is omnipresent and he is everything. Elrond.......ahhh.....he has already far surpassed Socrates........ooohhhh...........
But then, Elrond.......the reason why u don't miss your friends and family is probably cos' u were not too close to them? I mean, probably u wasn't that close or attached to your parents, cos' they ill-treated you or something? :D
From Sonu:Quote:
this is maybe my last post for the next six weeks. Have fun in this thread. See ya in six weeks.
To Sonu:
Below is the fare-well and happy holidays wishes from some of the more recognised members of Codeguru. I managed to spy on them and got it all down. Here are what they wish for you :
Gabriel Fleseriu : Hi Sonu! Take care! Be back soon, cos' I need someone to help me moderate the posts in the Visual C++ forum!
Elrond : Sonu! Be back soon, so that we can discuss Indian and German philosophy together!
Marina : Oh you sickening man! I would miss you, but please! Be back soon!
Irona : Oh man! Now u're leaving, u heartless brat! Ohhh......I don't want you to leave me.....but if you must.......oh.....I would wait for you.
Yves M : Sonu......u've been my great pal all these while. If you meet any gangsters on your travel or anything, gimme a call. I'll send my Mafia warriors down to help you. How many do u need? 400? What? 8000??? Ok, u got it. Easy.
Simon666: Don't have much to say to you, Sonu......just don't try to be a Satanist or anything. I have regretted what I have done. Please.
JeffB : I don't have the time to see you off, Sonu. U see, the Amazon.com stocks are on the rise and I'm makin' big money. See you!
Andreas Masur : Hey Sonu! See you! When u're back, we can discuss mathematics algorithms and how to make Codeguru a better place.
Platinum Plus : Sonu...u're a real man who's adored by many. But how do u get it that good?(ponders seriously again)
Brad Jones : Sonu, when u're back, remember to mail me telling me your views on that issue regarding whether to make Xeon the assistant site manager.
Currently, he's already got 9 votes outta 10 votes. All we need is your single vote and he'll be one.
Xeon : Nothing much to say, Sonu! Just wanna tell you to take care and such. Also, please be faithful to the gurls in the destination u're travelling to, and not make them big-bellied or anything.
Good luck!
:D:D:D
It's a well kept secret that you get those when you click on the number of posts of a thread ;)Quote:
Again, Yves........how did u get that statistics???!!!
Oh really! Wow!(la la la......boost my posts.....boost my posts.....la la la!) :D :D :D :D :D
We shouldn't just post for the sake of posting, you should have something important to say.
Wow, that was an amazingly easy post... lets see... now I'm up to 77... and they'll never know that this post had no purpose other than to increase my total! ;) :p
ARRGGGH HA HA HA HA HA! That's real funny of ye', SolarFlare! :D:D
But if you dare try these kinda dirty tricks or acts in future, be sure I'm gonna ban you for life.(don't forget I'm the current assistant site manager!!!!!) :p:p:p
Unless, of course, u deliver a free and cute li'l honey **** for me every morning. Thank you. :p :D :D
Just cuz you're god's second in command now doesn't mean you have to turn to the dark side! Keep it cool!Quote:
if(dirty tricks){solarflare.banforlife(Xeon,NULL);}
Why aren't you a moderator?
:confused: :confused:
:D :D :D .... it would be better: El mejor programador de todos los tiempos :)Quote:
Originally posted by Platinum Plus
El programador mejor de todos tiempos
No, not at all! I was trying the Xeon way of lifting up the ego :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Elrond
I think you have forgotten all the other programmers of CodeGuru in your count.
Hi Irona.Quote:
Originally posted by irona20
:D :D :D .... it would be better: El mejor programador de todos los tiempos :)
Too bad I missed Sonu departure. I had to leave early friday to mourn a few lay offs. :(
At least Irona's back. We will be able to talk Spanish philosophy instead of German. Is there any famous Spanish philosopher? I don't know any. Spain seems to be better for soccer and painters...
:) Hi Elrond!Quote:
Originally posted by Elrond
At least Irona's back. We will be able to talk Spanish philosophy instead of German. Is there any famous Spanish philosopher? I don't know any. Spain seems to be better for soccer and painters...
Well, yes... the best known philosopher is Jose Ortega y Gasset. If you are interested, you can visit:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/9820/ortega.html
I've never heard of him *blushes*
Hi Irona ;)
That makes 2 at least. Irona, don't you have any internationally famous filosophers, like Rene Descartes for the French for example?Quote:
I've never heard of him *blushes*
Heh... As for me I know who is Jose Ortega y Gasset.
And interesting. Now I have try to remember world famous philosophers, and many of them were German :rolleyes:
I think I only know Immanuel Kant and Nietsche as German philosophers. Otherwise my knowledge of philosophers is very limited. I am an alpha scientist and so are programmers. I don't know about you people, but I consider the beta sciences such as philosophy more of an occupation for people who failed in math and physics. This can be perceived as (and probably is) a denigrating attitude but so be it. I do not esteem philosophers very high, I don't know what your attitude is about this?
Do you think if all these philosophers were around they would write a better OS than Bill Windows ?
Simon 666:
As not being a satanist, I think the philosophers and this kind of guys (religious, ...) are useful, because they remind the other type of people (scientists, ...) what is good and bad. It's probably thanks to some of them if a lot of people live on Earth with a good deal of freedom, certainely not thanks to scientists.
On the other hand, I think that most of the philosophers are fool and just feeding on people that are not as bright. That's why there are quite a few philosophers, whatever the time you live in, but only a few are remembered (the one that had real opinions and ideas).
But it is the same think about eveything, and I wonder who will remember Simon666 and Xeon once our days are over. Most of us don't do such a tough and bright job.
I am not fond of philosophy and philosophers, but I still think we can learn as much from them that they can learn from us.
The only problem is that I'm not able to speak properly about this kind of things since I speak with english people. And I think there's two reason for that. The first is a lot of people around are not as open to the world and the different ways of thinking. And another is the language. Not just because I don't speak a good enough english yet, but also because the English is not as appropriate as French to talk about philosophy. That may be why French was the language used for all philosophic matters for a long time.
Then you could say the same about religion. Religion and philosophy are quite alike and go often hand in hand. The suggestion that those guys are necessary just as religious figures, priests or mullahs,... is completely absurd. If there were no religion or nobody famous who would talk about what is good and bad, would the world then be crowded with evil people committing all kinds of sins? I think we learn good or bad by education not by philosophers, and judging people on their deeds is a task for judges, not priests, mullahs or philosophers.Quote:
I think the philosophers and this kind of guys (religious, ...) are useful, because they remind the other type of people (scientists, ...) what is good and bad. It's probably thanks to some of them if a lot of people live on Earth with a good deal of freedom, certainely not thanks to scientists.
Of course, this kind of people can have influence or power (for good AND for bad) on what is accepted and what not, by means of making their thoughts public and discussing about it. But if they wouldn't do this, the world would not crumble. I think it is very arrogant to say that these people are really necessary, since this implies "common people" would not know by education or intuitively what is good and what is bad.
So their presence in society is not required, as far as I'm concerned. Scientists however are absolutely necessary, they build societies, make available all the comfort that we have in the 21th century. Nobody else than scientist could do this and have done this, and this advance in wealth and technology has made available the revolutions such as democracy, the right to vote, the right on free speach and such.
I think to philosophers are necessary for people who ask themselves the questions of lives and cannot find an answer for themselves, so they turn to other people. This can make philosophers useful, but there are also quite a few people who have abused this power throughout history, by saying what people should and shouldn't do so it would be in their benefit. So to say that it's probably thanks to some of them if a lot of people live on Earth with a good deal of freedom, is true. But it is also true that a lot of people live on Earth WITHOUT a good deal of freedom thanks to some of them.Quote:
On the other hand, I think that most of the philosophers are fool and just feeding on people that are not as bright. That's why there are quite a few philosophers, whatever the time you live in, but only a few are remembered (the one that had real opinions and ideas).
I have already mentioned the necessity and benign effects of having scientists around. Of course it is certainly true that science has also created a lot of environmental and ethical problems, but without scientists there would simply be no society as we know it, which cannot be said about philosophers.Quote:
certainely not thanks to scientists.
I's been a long time since I heard such a non-sense.Quote:
Originally posted by Simon666 Then you could say the same about religion. Religion and philosophy are quite alike and go often hand in hand. The suggestion that those guys are necessary just as religious figures, priests or mullahs,... is completely absurd. If there were no religion or nobody famous who would talk about what is good and bad, would the world then be crowded with evil people committing all kinds of sins? I think we learn good or bad by education not by philosophers, and judging people on their deeds is a task for judges, not priests, mullahs or philosophers.
Of course, this kind of people can have influence or power (for good AND for bad) on what is accepted and what not, by means of making their thoughts public and discussing about it. But if they wouldn't do this, the world would not crumble. I think it is very arrogant to say that these people are really necessary, since this implies "common people" would not know by education or intuitively what is good and what is bad.
Know intuitively what is good or bad?!?!?!?! I don't think that really exist. Or just say that without philosopers and religious, the good or bad would not evolve, or not be what it is today. It is them who made it evolve, it is them who said the first the it is bad to kill someone else, then ANYONE else. It is them who said all these things before judges be able to apply them. It is them as well who try to make people realize NOW that it is not that good to let people die in poor countries. They say it to people who don't care about all that because intuitively, they just mind their own confort given by their own scientists!!!!
I agree that education is NOW the basic way to teach people good or bad. But it is the philosophers and religious people who have made all the thougths evolve to what they are today.
????Quote:
So their presence in society is not required, as far as I'm concerned. Scientists however are absolutely necessary, they build societies, make available all the comfort that we have in the 21th century. Nobody else than scientist could do this and have done this, and this advance in wealth and technology has made available the revolutions such as democracy, the right to vote, the right on free speach and such.
Don't you know that democracy was invented by greek philosophers long before any high technology existed? Do you think that with scientists alone, democracy may never have been invented, and the stronger man (think GW Bush) would have the right to kill or bomb anyone without having to care about any consequencies? It's probably because mentality has evolved thanks to the philosopher that GWB is still waiting before attacking Iraq. As powerful as he might be, he is still waiting...
Without the scientists, it would be tough to apply some philosophies as they exist today. But without philosophers, some scientists might be still burnt for fact of magic.
Are you arrogant to say that other people need philosophers, but not scientists, and not the world?Quote:
I think too philosophers are necessary for people who ask themselves the questions of lives and cannot find an answer for themselves, so they turn to other people. This can make philosophers useful, but there are also quite a few people who have abused this power throughout history, by saying what people should and shouldn't do so it would be in their benefit. So to say that it's probably thanks to some of them if a lot of people live on Earth with a good deal of freedom, is true. But it is also true that a lot of people live on Earth WITHOUT a good deal of freedom thanks to some of them.
It's thanks to scientists that we are now able to destroy the world with atomic bombs! There's probably no more and no less bunch of dangerous people among scientists than among philosopher.
Don't you think it is thank to scientists, and mainly programmers, that a lot of job are losts because people are replaced with conputers.
It's still worth it somehow as the technological inovation improve our lives. But listenning to philosophers could sometimes improves our lives as well.
If you listen to the wrong people (fundamentalists, ...), then there will be wars, privations.
If you use the wrong technologies, you can kill people as well, ruin people, have a house falling on your head, have a building like the world trade center implode faster.
Wrong. Without philosopher, there would be no society as we know it. They did a lot of bad, but at the end of the day, it might be thanks to them that you employer cannot kill you or whip you when you're not doing your job the way HE'd like to.Quote:
I have already mentioned the necessity and benign effects of having scientists around. Of course it is certainly true that science has also created a lot of environmental and ethical problems, but without scientists there would simply be no society as we know it, which cannot be said about philosophers.
And don't forget that a lot of philosophical ideas were badly used. Communism may not be so bad (it still has a lot of problems and is not what i'd like), but I don't think what happened in Russia is even close to the initial idea of communism.
It has to by definition. IF you use your own logic and thus assume philosophers determines what is good or bad, at some point in time there must have been the first philosopher. Now how would he know what is good or bad? By other philosophers? Since he/she is the first, there is noone before him. By education? You say that this is only know the case. By deduction, the result must be either by intuition or by reasoning. If you say by reasoning, then you are saying that somebody who is not a philosopher could not come up with this. However, ANYBODY (except the mentally retarded) who lives long enough in an anarchy, a society without rules, will understand probably intuitively or else with very little reasoning that rules are necessary, that there has to be determined what is good and bad, what people can and can't do. One of the principles that is present in all three monotheist religions (and others too most likely) is "Do not do upon an other what you do not want another to do to you". Does this require reasoning? I don't think so. I think a lot of people feel this and other philosophical rules intuitively.Quote:
I's been a long time since I heard such a non-sense.
Know intuitively what is good or bad?!?!?!?! I don't think that really exist.
I stay with my conviction that ordinary people with common sense came up with this, and leaders, judges,... applied these rules to everybody.Quote:
It is them who made it evolve, it is them who said the first the it is bad to kill someone else, then ANYONE else. It is them who said all these things before judges be able to apply them. It is them as well who try to make people realize NOW that it is not that good to let people die in poor countries.
Your view on mankind is apparently more pessimistic than a "satanist" as me. People do care about their own comfort primarily, but many people (like politicians, yes, there are good too :D ) also care about the well being of the community, ever since man hunted in groups millions of years ago.Quote:
They say it to people who don't care about all that because intuitively, they just mind their own confort given by their own scientists!!!!
Philosophers and religious people have only enforced and written down their thoughts and laws upon everybody. If people would only be concerned with their own comfort and/or have no intuitive understanding of good and bad, that these rules may be good for the society, they would never have accepted them. And since we differentiate between philosophers who just write down their thoughts about these rules and the lawmakers (politicians, religious people) who enforce these rules, we can say that philosophers are not necessary. People will in most cases understand that the rules are necessary even if there aren't any fancy publications and thoughts on them, but people do need other people to enforce these rules and thoughts on what is good and bad.Quote:
I agree that education is NOW the basic way to teach people good or bad. But it is the philosophers and religious people who have made all the thougths evolve to what they are today.
If you'ld know your history you would know that the number of people who could vote in Greece were very limited to the wealthy, male and of certain age. Slavery was widely accepted (who build the Parthenon you think) and yet there were many great Greek philosophers.Quote:
Don't you know that democracy was invented by greek philosophers long before any high technology existed?
I think without scientists, democracy would never have been invented since we would still live in the stone age or under theocracies like in the middle ages, due to the absence of modern comforts which allows people to have time for themselves, to be educated. Modern living conditions are a necessity, but not a guarantee for democracy. Which means scientists are necessary in order to achieve the closest thing to a true democracy.Quote:
Do you think that with scientists alone, democracy may never have been invented, ...
I do not understand the meaning of this line.Quote:
Without the scientists, it would be tough to apply some philosophies as they exist today. But without philosophers, some scientists might be still burnt for fact of magic.
I think you did not read my post thoroughly. I think I am arrogant enough to say that people need not philosophers, but scientists. With ...and not the world, what do you mean with this? I never stated that.Quote:
Are you arrogant to say that other people need philosophers, but not scientists, and not the world?
I said in my previous post science raised a lot of new problems too. But it also provided the necessary conditions for you to drive to work, turn on your computer and most of all keeps you alive due to the medical technology, which prolounged the life of men from around 20-30 years in the middle ages due to infectious diseases and such, to 60-70 years around now. And it is my personal opinion that there are no more and no less dangerous bunch of people than philosophers who abuse there power to keep people dumb and obedient, such as Bin Laden consorts who claim to have the absolute truth on what and who is good and what and who is bad. Such regimes and philosophies can put entire nations centuries back in time, just as bombing and nuking countries. And may I remind you that as a programmer, you are technically speaking also a scientist?Quote:
It's thanks to scientists that we are now able to destroy the world with atomic bombs! There's probably no more and no less bunch of dangerous people among scientists than among philosopher.
I'm glad you agree on that part. As a personal opinion, I think that philosophers are the most dangerous. Note, I say, personal opinion.Quote:
If you listen to the wrong people (fundamentalists, ...), then there will be wars, privations.
If you use the wrong technologies, you can kill people as well, ruin people, have a house falling on your head, have a building like the world trade center implode faster.
I mentioned it before, people understand intuitively or with little reasoning that rules are necessary, and usually it is by the consent and the insights of the majority of people (not the small percent or promille philosophers) that ideas on good and wrong are accepted.Quote:
Wrong. Without philosopher, there would be no society as we know it. They did a lot of bad, but at the end of the day, it might be thanks to them that you employer cannot kill you or whip you when you're not doing your job the way HE'd like to.
So you do admit that philosophers can be the most dangerous people. It is the philosophy of communism that ensured that scientist did not have the economical means to prevent or their right on free speach to object to the safety state of for instance Chernobyl type reactors. The science for safer reactors was present, but the philosophies of free speach and others (freedom of enterprise) were inferior to the Soviet ideology. Scientists usually have little power, philosophers often have more by themselves or on the leaders. And with greater power comes greater possibility to do wrong.Quote:
And don't forget that a lot of philosophical ideas were badly used. Communism may not be so bad (it still has a lot of problems and is not what i'd like), but I don't think what happened in Russia is even close to the initial idea of communism.
An example is the French revolution. People understood intuitively that the way things were going than, it could not go on. Widespread famine, corruption and inequality made peoples lives difficult. It were the people who started the revolution and demanded equality, freedom and brotherhood. People like Rousseau already wrote these ideas down prior to the revolution, but if you really think that without him there would be no French revolution or ideas as "Liberte, egalite et fraternite ", is completely absurd. It is just his merit to put these ideas down and to reflect on them. That is all.
Hum... I don't agree with any of you two ;)
The main difference between philosophy and religion is that religion goes unquestioned and if you question it you become a heretic. I don't think that there are many examples of philosophers who took the same stance.
And to say that philosophy is useless... Philosophy is just the act of reflecting deeply on some subject and taking some decision, even though one might be aware that the decision is not entirely founded. Philosophers have thought about many subjects and they are definitely not limited to the meaning of life or "proofs" that God exists.
Many great scientists have also been philosophers and vice-versa. You could start with most of the greek philosophers, like Plato, Euclid or Pythagoras. Leibnitz, a great german mathematician, was also a prolific philosopher. Same goes for Newton.
Philosophy doesn't tell people what to think, but gives them ideas. Philosophy has shaped society and has even shaped science. Just look at the work by Karl Popper.
I don't think anybody would argue on this. Philosophers usually make bad statemen anyways ;)Quote:
An example is the French revolution. People understood intuitively that the way things were going than, it could not go on. Widespread famine, corruption and inequality made peoples lives difficult. It were the people who started the revolution and demanded equality, freedom and brotherhood. People like Rousseau already wrote these ideas down prior to the revolution, but if you really think that without him there would be no French revolution or ideas as "Liberte, egalite et fraternite ", is completely absurd. It is just his merit to put these ideas down and to reflect on them. That is all.
Here I completely disagree with you. It is not the fault of the philosophy of communism, but rather the fault of the people who used this philosophy to build a totalitarian regime.Quote:
So you do admit that philosophers can be the most dangerous people. It is the philosophy of communism that ensured that scientist did not have the economical means to prevent or their right on free speach to object to the safety state of for instance Chernobyl type reactors. The science for safer reactors was present, but the philosophies of free speach and others (freedom of enterprise) were inferior to the Soviet ideology. Scientists usually have little power, philosophers often have more by themselves or on the leaders. And with greater power comes greater possibility to do wrong.
Another example is the use by the Nazis of Nietzsche's notion of Ubermensch. Nietzsche's notion became twisted and didn't have much more to do with what the Nazis were trying to interpret into it.
There's a lot more difference than that. Religion answers questions like "what happens after I die?" and "how can I be a better person?" while philosophy answers questions like "why did that happen?" and "what is the meaning of this?"Quote:
Originally posted by Yves M
Hum... I don't agree with any of you two ;)
The main difference between philosophy and religion is that religion goes unquestioned and if you question it you become a heretic.
It is the entire foundation of the two which is different, along with everything else on the way up. Sure, they can be compared, but in no way taken to mean a similar thing.
OK, that is completely true. But I stay by my point that it is not the fault of scientists, but of the people who did not provide them the means or the permission to make a better and safer design. Everybody is guilty in a way, the scientists for not having the courage to refuse to use their technologies when there are insufficient safety, environmental and other guarantees, the philosophers for providing the ideology that allowed the people who carry the greatest power, responsability and thus also the greatest part of the guilt for using this ideology to use science incorrect and/or for the wrong purposes.Quote:
Here I completely disagree with you. It is not the fault of the philosophy of communism, but rather the fault of the people who used this philosophy to build a totalitarian regime.
Another example is the use by the Nazis of Nietzsche's notion of Ubermensch. Nietzsche's notion became twisted and didn't have much more to do with what the Nazis were trying to interpret into it.
Is there ThanksGiving in Canada ?Quote:
Originally posted by JeffB
SIX WEEKS!!! WHOA!
It is one month and a half, it will be mid-november...
I agree. Chernobyl was not ONLY (but also) the fault of the scientists who had not enough means. But it wasn't the fault of the philosopher that created the idea of communism. As long as I know, this idea should allow anyone to do their jod.Quote:
Originally posted by Simon666
OK, that is completely true. But I stay by my point that it is not the fault of scientists, but of the people who did not provide them the means or the permission to make a better and safer design. Everybody is guilty in a way, the scientists for not having the courage to refuse to use their technologies when there are insufficient safety, environmental and other guarantees, the philosophers for providing the ideology that allowed the people who carry the greatest power, responsability and thus also the greatest part of the guilt for using this ideology to use science incorrect and/or for the wrong purposes.
Russians did it more like a dictaturship of a few, than like a dictaturship of all the people as planned. People did not have ANY power in Soviet Unions.
We could say it's the same thing to use atomic energy to make bombs, and to use communism as it was in Russia. If communism had been used the same way atomic energy is used to make energy plants, it would have been much better. And even then, not perfect: Atomic plants are not perfect as they create radioactive waste, I don't think communism is any more perfect.
To come back to the initial problem, here's another way to see why philosophers are useful.
If there had been no scientists, we can image that science would have still evolved. Farming would be much better now than it was 4000 years ago. But the process would have been much slower than it is with scientists.
If there had been no philosophers, human civilisation may have still created democracy, most of the same notions of good and bad, intuitively. But it would have taken much longer. By giving their thoughts, they make the world evolve faster.
In both case, toughts and technologies can evolve in the good or the bad direction, but in both case we need people to be dedicated to it to evolve faster.
About democracy, I know my history. I know that at the beginning it was only a limited number of people that had the right to vote. But the idea was there, and it has evolved, partly because of philosophers as well.
Do you think every medicine ever made was perfect? No, it has saved a lot of people, but it has killed some as well. But it is always evolving, and a lot of drugs that used to kill people are not given anymore, or are given more carefully so that they do more good than bad. People have died because of penicillin, even though it has saved a lot of other people.
The same goes with ideas. Some are bad, some are good. Even the good ones may need time to evolve.
The last point is that philosophy has helped science to evolve as well. The scientific process is widely based on the philosophical process Descarte used in his works.
I do think that any human, philosopher included thus, should have known from the start on that nobody is equal, and everybody is different. Some people are very driven and love to help other people, but in every society there are people seeking to profit while doing nothing in return. And if doctors for example make the same amount of money as everybody and the state provides jobs anyway, where is then the motivation to study hard for around seven years? I think some philosophies or wrong from start on, and it becomes more dangerous when such a philosophy becomes implemented. So the philosopher in question (Marx) was wrong and dangerous. Every human makes mistakes, and so do philosophers. Although it is true that communism twisted most of the original logic and provided advantages for the nomenclatura and no rights and power for the people. But even if it was implemented as intended, I think it would not have worked since I - as most people probably - believe that everybody is different and payment should be according to ones merits and not regardless of them equal for everyone.Quote:
But it wasn't the fault of the philosopher that created the idea of communism.
OK Elrond, I can find myself completely in your last post. End of discussion about that I guess. Maybe I can find myself in that because you have just reached 666 posts. :D :) ;) :p
Communism is not only that, but I agree that this is the main wickness of it. It forgets too much that people need motivation to work. That's why I also told that communism isn't what I'd like to go with, even though I used it for the argument's sake.Quote:
Originally posted by Simon666
But even if it was implemented as intended, I think it would not have worked since I - as most people probably - believe that everybody is different and payment should be according to ones merits and not regardless of them equal for everyone.
For the rest, you should know that no philosophical discussion is ever finished, as no scientific work is ever complete, as no program is ever complete! ;)
But we can stop the discussion know, and try to speak about something else so that other people will join in. It seems only Yves M and Solarflare were not too impressed. :p
That's what I meant. By the way, does anybody know a link where you can download the latest Bond movie trailer? I think it's out already.Quote:
But we can stop the discussion know, and try to speak about something else so that other people will join in. It seems only Yves M and Solarflare were not too impressed.
As I have seen latest Bond's films (except last), so they are not so interesting like early films. I don't like P. Brosnan in this role. :mad:
2 Simon: Try to find with google, etc. But I think the best way is go to the cinema and look it at BIG SCREEN :D
Here in Minsk I can find already CD or video cassette with this film and even I should done it even before officiale premiere in GB!
;) :D :p
I know a few girls that think otherwise ;)Quote:
Originally posted by dimm_coder
As I have seen latest Bond's films (except last), so they are not so interesting like early films. I don't like P. Brosnan in this role. :mad:
But I'm not as fond of Bond's movies that I used to, and it never was a passion anyway.
Yes, as for me, I like more serious films.Quote:
Originally posted by Elrond
But I'm not as fond of Bond's movies that I used to, and it never was a passion anyway.
But..
Is anybody saw new Steaven Spillberg film ... .uuu ...
(how it's original english name :confused: ) "Special Opinion" :confused:
I think it's called "Minority Report". No I just saw the previews they're showing on TV-ads.Quote:
Originally posted by dimm_coder
Yes, as for me, I like more serious films.
But..
Is anybody saw new Steaven Spillberg film ... .uuu ...
(how it's original english name :confused: ) "Special Opinion" :confused:
I think Bond films have greatly improved ever since that horrible Roger Moore guy stopped with it. And "Minority Report" is quite good, I can tell you. It is seriously intended yet contains some funny scenes that will probably become classic. I will not give away what. And dimm_coder, I do not believe that you can get the latest Bond movie, despite of lack of copy-right enforcement in Belorussia. I think that is deception.
And I can find enough on Google, but most (all?) makes use of Apple Quicktime. Anybody occasionally strolled by an MPEG or AVI format?
"Minority Report"... it is a great film!!!! :D :D... at the end.... :) Well, I won't be bad, and I won't say anything :)Quote:
Originally posted by dimm_coder
Yes, as for me, I like more serious films.
But..
Is anybody saw new Steaven Spillberg film ... .uuu ...
(how it's original english name :confused: ) "Special Opinion" :confused:
I actually believe dimm coder when he said that. Some movies are already available on the black market before the first US screening even. Simon, you should go to Singapore or Bejing and you'll see ;)
for platinum plus's information, Canada thanksgiving is October 14 2002.
Is there Turkey (traditional) or Chicken Chops goes :)Quote:
Originally posted by proxima centaur
for platinum plus's information, Canada thanksgiving is October 14 2002.
I know that kind of things has already occurred quite often. But this has been going on for a while already, so I would expect that by now they would have working prevention measures. Apparently this is still not the case. But I also think that this copy is sometimes very bad in quality.Quote:
I actually believe dimm coder when he said that. Some movies are already available on the black market before the first US screening even. Simon, you should go to Singapore or Bejing and you'll see.
And what do Canadians give thanks for. The American version is for remembering the indians (later to be massacred, genocide style) helping the pilgrims if I am not mistaking, but is this in the case of Canada the same?
I guess Platinium plus has been contaminated by Xeon... :p:DQuote:
Originally posted by Platinum Plus
Is there Turkey (traditional) or Chicken Chops goes :)
Well, no in a sense it's actually gotten worse with movies. Nowadays they get copies off prerelease screening versions for journalists. The quality is comparable to DVD quality. No wonder the movie industry is pushing hard for "secure" computers ;)