Where are we from ?

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Originally posted by ats007spdou
Just a question, what is the overall opinion of Americans around the world at the moment(please give an honest opinion and not just "Those oil hogging cowboys!!!" or something like that)?

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I'm from Belgium. My opinion is they are a bit more religious than us Belgians, a certain number seem to want religion to have an influence in politics - which I find quite dangerous - as reflected in abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia and a lot of them completely not understanding that the US system is not the only one that works and that people in other countries like their system (think it means they hate America or freedom). Europe's system is regarded by a number as socialist, but not in a good way, as socialist = communist. The resident onboard member here I know to be guilty of the latter is Mick. For the rest they're okay, just too bad they voted - or didn't vote, depending on what you like to believe - an asshole in charge.

An article I've just read resumes well enough the situation. Two years and a half ago, just after september the 11th, almost all the world could say: "We are all Americans". Most of the world was supporting your war against terrorism. But after the war in Iraq that ends up being a fraud in a lot of aspects, most a of the world ends up thinking: "We're all unamericans".

Of course, for me and most of the western countries, that does not mean that we hate America or want to go to war against you. But that means that we don't recognise ourselves at all in the values you (the US government) display.

The war started against the WMD. None were found. And even before the beginning of the war we could have said so. All the "evidences" were crap. So we see now the Americans as liars. It's all right that the American people have not seen the lie at the beginning, it is more difficult to accept that Bush still as that much suport now.

The war started to fight against terrorism. I don't say there were none at all. But there were no link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaida. And anyway, that was certainly not the first country to support terrorism, so the US shouldn't have selected them as first target. Well Iraq has plenty of oil. It's all right to fight agaisnt coutries that support terrorism, but it's more difficult to accept when economical reasons seem to be one of the main reasons for the choice.

The war started to give freedom and democracy to the Iraqii people. But for the moment, because of the behaviour of the US army, they feel as an invaded country. They feel they have less freedom than before. They feel they are dying more than before. And the American type of democracy is not what they want, and it's not what they need. It may work out for America (even if the last presidential election was very doubtful) but not does not suit all cultures. It's all right to want to spread freedom around the world, but for that you need to understand what local population want. They may not want the American way of life. They have their own culture. Don't force them into your freedom that may be as prison for them

The war started to free Iraqii people from the tortures inflicted by Saddam Hussein. Look at what the US army did. Hopefully it is the fact only of a few. Hopefully it is not an order from Rumsfeld. But Rumsfeld knew and did nothing, at least for some time. You want to teach values to the world, you want to teach democracy. So you should respect the values, and make people who make serious mistakes pay. Rumsfeld should have been fired. Gantanamo should not exist.

Well, America is showing the opposite of what is says it want to teach. I don't like this America. Hopefully it will change soon. I don't know if Kerry is any good. I know Bush is bad and dangerous. He said he wanted to make the world a safest place. He made it a more dangerous place. But may be it is to his own advantage as in a dangerous world he may seem a "better" choice than Kerry.

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Originally posted by Simon666
Europe's system is regarded by a number as socialist, but not in a good way, as socialist = communist. The resident onboard member here I know to be guilty of the latter is Mick.

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They are birds of the same feather Simon, that is what you keep trying to defend. I do not trust the goverment to do anything correctly with my tax money ;) That includes health care blah blah blah...but hey thanks for understanding what it means.

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so·cial·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ssh-lzm)
n.
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

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Originally posted by Elrond
I know Bush is bad and dangerous. He said he wanted to make the world a safest place. He made it a more dangerous place. But may be it is to his own advantage as in a dangerous world he may seem a "better" choice than Kerry.

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They are both a bad choice and therein lies the problem.

Go hide under the rock you came crawling under from in Montana, Oklahoma or whatever other place crazy white trash assembles and hides with a stash of guns and ammo. The UN will invade you with black helicopters you know. And your tax dollars pay your goddamn army you nut, even the most rabid insane conservatives or libertarians of your kind acknowledge that is money well spent.

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Originally posted by Simon666
Go hide under the rock you came crawling under from in Montana, Oklahoma or whatever other place crazy white trash assembles and hides with a stash of guns and ammo. The UN will invade you with black helicopters you know.

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Kinda comment I'd expect from the tin-foil hat brigade.

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And your tax dollars pay your goddamn army you nut, even the most rabid insane conservatives or libertarians of your kind acknowledge that is money well spent.

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Hey thanks for pointing that out. We gotta work on that, make it a private corporation so we can outsource more projects to mercenary contractors.

/Adjust your frequency your breaking up.

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Originally posted by Simon666
Go hide under the rock you came crawling under from in Montana, Oklahoma or whatever other place crazy white trash assembles and hides with a stash of guns and ammo. The UN will invade you with black helicopters you know. And your tax dollars pay your goddamn army you nut, even the most rabid insane conservatives or libertarians of your kind acknowledge that is money well spent.

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:mad: I don't really appreciate being refered to as "white-trash" Simon, I'm not really calling you a "tree-hugging nut" or something, I really thought that this type of maddness could be avoided. Now I regret ever posting the question.

P.S.: As my personal choice, I prefer Lieberman(Democrat) or McCain(Republican), simply they both have a wealth of knowledge on how to run a country.

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Originally posted by ats007spdou
:mad: I don't really appreciate being refered to as "white-trash" Simon, I'm not really calling you a "tree-hugging nut" or something, I really thought that this type of maddness could be avoided. Now I regret ever posting the question.

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He is not talking to you ats ;)

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P.S.: As my personal choice, I prefer Lieberman(Democrat)

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Not a bad man in some ways.

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McCain

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I like McCain but sometimes he has that nutty look in his eyes ;) Like his sense of humor though...

ats007spdou, I was talking to mick, my issues with him date way back to months before you even came here, he is one of the main reasons why I left this forum. I do think he is a conservative nutball to say the least and to say the most that is allowed by moderation and I will not change my opinion regardless what anyone says.

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Originally posted by ats007spdou
:mad: I don't really appreciate being refered to as "white-trash" Simon, I'm not really calling you a "tree-hugging nut" or something, I really thought that this type of maddness could be avoided. Now I regret ever posting the question.

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I think he was refering to Mick and some other gun nut people, not to all American people (even if there are too many of them in the US ... wait, there are too many of them every where :( ).

But if you are a gun nut, then you may fall into this category ... ;) :rolleyes: at least in the idea of Simon.

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P.S.: As my personal choice, I prefer Lieberman(Democrat) or McCain(Republican), simply they both have a wealth of knowledge on how to run a country.

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Unfortunately (Well, I don't know any of them so that doesn't make a lot of a difference for me), none of them will run for being elected president ...

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Originally posted by Elrond
I think he was refering to Mick and some other gun nut people, ...

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Actually, to Mick specifically as there isn't anyone else on this forum qualifying for that. At least not that I know.

Ok, I got it. However, I really don't think bombing the BeJesus out of us is going to solve anything. Yes Bush made the decision to go to Iraq primarily because he wanted to get rid of Saddam/(maybe) oil.

The one reason why enjoys so much support is because he did handle the terror attack well(err... better than Gore in my opinion). Unfortunately the actions of my president have a strong impression on the people here in europe. One guy that I talked to assumed that most common people in America are a bunch of idiots, now I don't really consider myself not that out of the ordinary and most "common" people aren't usually the top of the crust(in terms of intelligence) regardless in which part of the world that you look. And one thing that I've been waiting to vent is something against one french kid(actually I have no beef against the french on general basis for the most part), his comment was(roughly)....

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Is it true that French men are so much better ... attractive than American men? I was in New York and all of the girls that I talked were so impressed when I talked to them.

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Usually I'm a nice guy, but that comment is just begging for a smack in the face, my reaction was one of just saying something vague and walking away(I'm trying to promote an image of Americans one not of nutcases). But, after something like that, it makes you wonder.....

I personally have nothing against the idea of owning guns, afterall, that's something that some Germans have, since they're hunters and all. As far as I'm concerned having a rifle(a normal one, not an assault AK-47 rifle with a grenade launcher) for hunting/shooting for sport(cans, bottles, rocks, brick, etc.) However, the idea of carrying around a machine gun or some other anti-tank concoction is just plain nuts.

P.S.: Call me a anti-gun nutcase if you want, but I prefer gun-control, I would really hate to see another columbine or something like that.

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Originally posted by Simon666
Actually, to Mick specifically as there isn't anyone else on this forum qualifying for that. At least not that I know.

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So when someones opinion differs from yours it has to be wrong, because yours is the only right way. After we get rid of guns, lets get rid of those machetes, then we can move onto forks, spoons, sporks. It's not up to the people anymore, it's up to who can scream the loudest. If you do not want to own a gun (and I don't own one by the way, but I have said that before) good that is fine, but don't tell me what to do.


Who is wearing the brown shirt again?

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Originally posted by Simon666
I will not change my opinion regardless what anyone says.

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You must be a Bush Republican:)