Then i want to stay..... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by WizBang
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Then i want to stay..... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by WizBang
Vb6 only uses the interpreter while running in p-code. once you compile that to native code, you only have the runtime dlls.Quote:
Originally Posted by bhushan1980
I like c++ and will continue to use it until they make a superset over c++ or whatever they have in mind. Microsoft is in one way over shadowing c++, but they won't put it in the dark all the way because people depend on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bhushan1980
Although I can't say I don't like the language, I can say I don't like the .net part that goes with it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bhushan1980
I do know both ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bhushan1980
Good post btw
Ok back to speed issue here on the vb.net :D
Oh and I was trying out the vs 2008 express that is free since it has been mentioned.. Well screw it. I am not registering so they can spy on me, so now it is not free in my eyes
Free is when you can download it and it will run all the time... just like code::blocks.
One thing to note here is, although this thread/vote was originally meant to be the one referring to VB 6.0 and VB.NET, it pretty much covered C++, C# and few other languages as well. But, one thing which I said was the major drawback was the lack of inheritance. Syntactically, it was much more friendlier than VC++ 6.0 which made it easy to develop applications using VB 6.0 and COM made it possible to take advantage of both the languages. But many a times, C++ would have an edge over VB 6.0. I am not sure if VB 6.0 developers said anything they had equivalent to that. And infact, VB.NET provided those developers with more than what they had!.Not sure what to comment about working with .NET framework and all the slowness and reverse engineering issues...
Also, too much flexibility in syntax, sometimes baffles a person from C/C++ background. For instance, apart from the semi-colon and case-insensitivity, arrays had an option (I heard) to start their indexes at 0 or 1 using Option Base 1. According to me, things like these should not be included simply because they do not have a purpose. Agreed that they introduce flexibility, but at what cost?
Having said that, I also do not believe the argument that multiple inheritance is bad. But I sincerely believe that, only those people who are really good at it and who are confident that they are at an advantage using it, should use it. I have seen some really brilliant code with it. I think some people here would agree with me. Of course, a great deal of care must be taken while dealing with those. But I sometimes feel that the sheer analytical power of some of the brilliant minds and their urge to do things is curbed by circulating the notion that MI is bad. Even if anyone asks me today in an interview or forum or a talent talk or anything, I would have to say that it is not good unless there is a scope for a detailed explanation.
What I feel is...if given a chance, I would prefer sticking with C++ and would love to improve on my coding skills. But looking in the direction where MS is going, I do not see any special development or promotion of C++ as their main language. Also, if you prefer to stick to C++, how long are you going to be in market? No doubt that it will prevail outside MS environment.Quote:
I like c++ and will continue to use it until they make a superset over c++ or whatever they have in mind. Microsoft is in one way over shadowing c++, but they won't put it in the dark all the way because people depend on it.
On the other hand, there are some libraries outside MS, that are trying to include many things supporting C++. One such example is the wt (web toolkit) that uses C++ with Boost libraries for web development. There is an article by Victor Volkman on CG at
I found it very interesting. But having said that, it is not complete and no way near .NET framework it seems. But, I would have certainly appreciated if MS had developed something like along with C# and VB.NET for C++ as well.
I do like .NET as well. And the reason is understandably true. Where the world is going, MS has to go with it to stay in the race. At the same time it has its own set of constraints to work with. So what if .NET is a framework that comes with windows OS. They had to take advantage of the existing architecture. It is there in market to compete in web development. But that does not mean, ignoring what once was their strength. I remember, MFC was a huge hit back in '98. And still it is being used. But, it came with obvious short comings then; not to mention the non ISO compliance of the language it came with. Now, it is still there but only as one of the many alternatives out there. If MS decides, it could still develop the same kind of support for C++ as well. However, I think it is a little too late and too expensive as well to do it. In my opinion, C++ is fast diminishing at least in MS circles. I do not know where it is going to lead the development to.Quote:
Although I can't say I don't like the language, I can say I don't like the .net part that goes with it
Of course that is what feel. Others might have different thoughts...
Regards,
Bhushan.
I understand your points on staying current with microsoft, but if I did that, opengl would be dead and microsoft would have all my money and I would be using vista :cry:. The only reason opengl still exist for microsoft is because people had to stick up for what they wanted. If I went with you to the .net, I would be a hyprocrite. I don't want c++ nor opengl to fade away. C++ is used for games. No other language can do this effectively as asm, c or c++.
To me vb6 was fine with modules. vb6 didn't really need inheritance. Modules worked well enough. It has been sometime, but I am sure you could use modules within modules if inheritance was an issue. To me vb6 didn't have problems with duplicate code. vb6 is pretty old now, but even at its age, it stands up very good.
Even if I can't work on microsft os, that doesn't mean the end of the world. I have been telling other people to learn more than one language for a reason. Also it does give you a great deal on how languages work on computers and how they are built.
I would repeat the .net issues, but they have been posted over and over by now. I will repeat that vista is terrible, so I am glad I don't stay current with microsoft. I will wait until the next version of windows to come out and hope they didn't screw that one up :(
Joeman, maybe one day you can explain why you dislike Microsoft so much?
I like microsoft and yet I don't like microsoft. Go figure. It has pros and cons. I suppose I stress cons before pros ;)
Fine one pro about microsoft. They make their os easy to use :D
one con about microsoft = money
I thought I said I like vb6? Isn't that microsoft's work :) I just don't like the .net and how much they are a monopoly.
Vista isn't that great one know for an update :thumbd:
Similar to Joeman, I like as well as dis-like MS...but I admit that I might be wrong as well in some points I am making here. But there is fair amount of truth here:
I like MS only for the obvious reasons. When I started learning C++, I pretty much did iostream programming as any one and every one would do. Also, I did quite a bit of PASCAL and C. And after that, I did some BASIC language programming. It made me clear with syntax. Although, MS has nothing to do with these languages, I liked it because, it made it so easy for me to understand how these languages can help you develop any kind of application. For instance, VB 6 utilized a syntax similar to that of BASIC language (and of course much more than that) but it gave us the ability to develop a variety of different applications with windows. Take the example of Visual C++. Before Visual C++, I was using the compiler for iostream, but never really knew what the other options were for. Then in one vacation during my schooling, I just decided to browse through some books with Visual C++ and MFC programming. I just could not believe that what ever I was doing until then with C++, was just a part of it. However, wrongly done Visual C++ 6.0 and previous versions might be, it was a hot technology then, simply because it was a first huge step in putting so much support to a language as difficult as C++. Whatever C++ I understand today, I owe it to Microsoft. Because, then on I explored a lot of different areas and environments (compilers) for C++. There are quite a few. I also read through few chapters in Wrox's Industrial C++ and then I knew that there are more efficient ways to do programming. Then over the years, Visual C++ became more standardized and Visual C++ became fully compliant with ISO standards. When I read about that, and after a number of posts from TheCPUWizard telling people to stop using VC++ 6.0 and switch to Visual C++ 2005 or higher. At the sametime, I support MS for giving its extensive frameworks i.e., .NET 1.0/1.1/2.0/3.0/3.5 and C# and VB.NET. And of course MSDN after the enhancements. And there are few more I missed. However, till here....I support MS all along
But in recent years, there has been more onus on decoration, rather than real development stuff. As I said before, MS has done well in past and is doing well even today. I posted a bug on MS forums, regarding adding C++ code snippets in VS studio 2005 IDE. I think no one replied there! I wrongly posted the report on some forums. But then I correctly utilized my time and posted the bug report correctly. I do not know if anyone even looked at it! Early on, I kept checking, but after a while I stopped. I just wanted the confirmation if it was a bug, or it was not a feature or there was a limitation or they never said that it could be done or it had a fix already. But it never did happen. Let us forget that, I also posted a bug in C# section, I did not get a reply for that either. I know I might be wrong here. But should it be so difficult to just reply to a bug posted? If I missed anything such as a reference to the bug report and all, I do not know. But I personally checked it for a few days for the replies. Actually never did happen. May be it was not a bug! But, at least I would never know. I won't repost the kind of attention (or neglect) shown by MS towards C++. Even if MS does attract a few talented people working else where in C++ and ask them to develop something in C++, I think they would have the C++ developers support as well. Certainly there is a support going for C++, but not with MS. Outside MS, it will really keep on going even if it is not as booming and lurking as .NET!
Regards,
Bhushan.
Let's remember the title of this thread:
Why VB 6.0??
Yes ...I agree
The title was not very clear on its intentions which was to make people ponder why they don't use the vb.net version. It wasn't a real poll yet it was a poll to make vb6 users feel bad and make them switch to the .net
for each option, here is an answer to each one individually:Quote:
1. My employer/school requires it - and provides a valid licensed copy
2. My employer/school requires it - I dont know if I am legal
3. Been using if for years legally and see not reason to upgrade to (free) new version
4. Got a copy of it from somewhere..
5. I didn't know any better
6. I am a caveman...
1. No, nobody requires me to use it
2. I think I would know if I got it legally
3. So what the new version is free. It is still in the .net
4. I do have a disc of it
5. I do know better. Are you calling me a moron here or what?
6. No I am not a caveman. You just like insulting me?
If it wasn't to discriminate vb6 users, the poll would have looked like this:
Can you see the differences? If the poll wasn't about why people use it, perhaps he should have asked it like this....:Quote:
Why vb6??
1. Vb6 has been here and I can still use it
2. Vb6 is a good language I know how to use
3. Vb6 is compatible with almost all versions of microsoft oses
4. Vb6 is still alive and I support it
5. Vb6 isn't primitive yet
6. I just like using Vb6
Well there and I approve of this message... ;)Quote:
Why not use Vb.net:
1. The .net sucks
2. You can reverse engineer the .net's msil with a decompiler
3. It is too slow still
4. The .net is too easy a moron can take my job
5. Why bother with the .net if you don't have a fast computer
6. Vb6 just works.
7. I found out Vb6 can work under vista and probably will do so
8. 64-bit is a bit overrated still and I don't need 64-bit, so vb6 32-bit works fine
9. All the above!
Did you look at the results?
5,2,10,2,1,5
Most popular was:Ad those people learned something...Quote:
Been using if for years legally and see not reason to upgrade to (free) new version
I just meant that it was in no way concerned with C++ (which theCPUWizard also does well)
Might want to start your own poll there?
It has well been discussed that there are a more options to this poll, however all of the listed ones are valid..Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeman
1.) Many Development company's still support VB6 software, and still produce new applications in it..
2.) There are hundreds of places running illegal software, and often the people acctually working on the system are not sure if all the software is legaly licenced.. (I've got ONE Legal Copy of VB6, but ran it on several systems at one time)
3.) I was one of these people for a long while.. I downloaded VS 2005 a long time ago, but carried on with VB6, it's only the last 6 months that i've been working full time in .NET..
4.) See number 2. above... There are several people that 'get' copies from friends, Work, etc.. My first copy of VB5 is one such copy...
5.) You'd be surprised how many people don't know about VB.NET, or that it's the next gen. of VB6.
6.) (My Vote on this Poll) some of us are from Noah's Ark, and just dont like progress, We like to stick to what we know. I use .NET for work, but still do my personal little app's in VB6 ...
If you dont aprove of the OP polls options, start your own poll.. All the senior members here seem to aprove of the options...Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeman
The rest of us dont !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeman
A new poll item:
Quote:
7. I have noticed that the VB6 jobs have dried up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermlinSa
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermlinSa
What you and arjay don't approve of my silly approval message? lol. It was a joke ;) I got it from the darn presidental compaign. I really don't care that you use the .net. I personaly can say use the .net and leave me alone. I know my apps will run faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by GermlinSa
8. I noticed the .net sucksQuote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
9. I don't work with vb6 as a job and I am sure most don't now
10. vb.net isn't for jobbing either. C# is.... mainly
11. This was a stupid poll and i have no intentions on making another poll
12. Why are you reading this?
Perhaps someone should compile a list of known facts about each languages differences:
1. Speed.
2. Runtime requirements
3. Compiling
4. Language syntax
5. Resources
6. Garage Collection
7. Price
8. Decompiling
9. Security measurements
10. Difference from msil vs actual native pe files
11. Job in demand
12. Hobby vs Job
13. .net history
14. Bussiness vs personal computers.
15. why people don't consider the vb.net an upgrade
16. Win32 apis vs the .net api
17. Speed factor between managed and unmanaged code
18. Trade offs
Speed vs Ease
Managed vs Unmanaged code
Security vs Ease
I know thecpuwizard was generating a thread for something like this, but no one has stepped up to do such a thing. Even if it is just external links from the www. It still would be nice
If anyone is serious about why people shouldn't use vb6 and go ahead and move to vb.net should take into consideration and do what thecpuwizard had in mind
btw, vb.net isn't a good place to start in the .net.. c# is