Mass destruction weapons in Iraq

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
As an American it goes to the fact that there is a gulf between you and I. Sadly, you do not understand what we stand for. I say to you again, we will not USE first. Many many americans would never obey such an order. I remind you many of my friends are in the Armed Forces. We will not use first. How clear on that can I be?

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I've seen training of missile operators in the US and I have the distinct impression their entire education is based on obeying to the unlikely and undesirably. So they WILL launch first if ordered to. Don't try to fool people here.

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
Are you there? No? Niether am I. So many Iraqi soilders captured in the first gulf war put their cases to the Hague? Right? Right? Media is disinformation and propaganda, I urge you not to listen. As it leads to disucssions on re-clasiffcation about SCUDS.

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I can tell you haven't read my post as you also would have read my reaction to Cimperiali. Come back when you read it. And by the way, even CNN says now they were NOT scuds. Upset? Disappointed?

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
1. It has already been proven in the past he has WMD. Why would he not have them now. Or do you believe what SH says to you?
2. Yes we will rebuild Iraq. How is that not evident. We will spend billions of our money to rebuild Iraq. Have not the American people done so before? Or do you not remember _your_ history?
3. No public apology will be necassary. You seem to forget who you are defending. I'm sorry to have to say your back in conspiracy land. I've asked you before to read expatriate accounts, so far I don't think you have, or do you believe the CIA is paying them? Please do not turn a blind eye to the iraqi plight, read the accounts, read the history, look at the history. Digest it, understand it.

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You're not answering to my question, you're carefully evading it. If (look at the if in my post) all of what I posted would come out true, would the US do all of what I asked? Even if unlikely?

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
I am sorry, we are human like you. Would you target a civilian? I'm not sure how you can say that we are targeting civilians? Please provide facts on that. What you see on TV has to be taken with a grain of salt, don't you think? Or do you believe everything the media reports? I don't.

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I don't say you target civilians. I say you bomb target that contain civilians.

There's probably a lot of think that might or might not be true on TV, but when they say that government facilities also host civilians, I don't think they just invented that one.

But may be you don't believe that any civilian has been hit so far.

I know this is war, and people die in wars, including civilian, but some of the targets in the centre of Bagdad will cause a lot of civilian casualties for a very limited (or inexistent) military advantage.

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Originally posted by Elrond


I don't say you target civilians. I say you bomb target that contain civilians.

There's probably a lot of think that might or might not be true on TV, but when they say that government facilities also host civilians, I don't think they just invented that one.

But may be you don't believe that any civilian has been hit so far.

I know this is war, and people die in wars, including civilian, but some of the targets in the centre of Bagdad will cause a lot of civilian casualties for a very limited (or inexistent) military advantage.

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No I firmly believe there have been civilian casutaties. I am just disputing the fact that people seem to think we target them in a caviliar attitude. The structures are command and control structures. We are not there, we do not know.

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
1. It has already been proven in the past he has WMD. Why would he not have them now. Or do you believe what SH says to you?

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We now he HAD them, he might not have any WMD of any value anymore. Even if he has some that he didn't destroyed, it might be so old that it wouldn't harm you, would you try to breathe it.

I know SH lies a lot. He may say the truth sometimes. And if you have done all this war for a barrel of old gaz, it seems a little vain. As I said, I hope there will be more...

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2. Yes we will rebuild Iraq. How is that not evident. We will spend billions of our money to rebuild Iraq. Have not the American people done so before? Or do you not remember _your_ history?

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It is NOT evident at all.

And I don't speak only about the US. I speak about every country. The international community made promesses for a lot of money for Afghanistan. They had almost none. Most of the money that came to rebuild and help people in Afghanistan has come from helping organism, not from public money from the international countries. This is not what was promised, and in that I talk about European countries as well as USA and others.

And the USA will have spend so much money in this war, to what you can add that it has lost a lot of money since Bush is president. You won't have much money to spend to help Iraq being rebuilt.

It is even likely that Bush hopes that most of the other countries will feel guilty about what happened or something, and will give enough money to rebuilt Iraq so the US won't have to.

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Originally posted by Simon666

I've seen training of missile operators in the US and I have the distinct impression their entire education is based on obeying to the unlikely and undesirably. So they WILL launch first if ordered to. Don't try to fool people here.

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Propaganda in full swing. Which movie were you watching when you deduced that?

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I can tell you haven't read my post as you also would have read my reaction to Cimperiali. Come back when you read it. And by the way, even CNN says now they were NOT scuds. Upset? Disappointed?

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I read it. Your not there, who's to say some bomb didn't kill those soldiers, whos to say they were not fighting? You are not there, nor am I. No I'm not upset about the SCUDS, I was just answering your post before based on misinformation. Doesn't it just prove that watching/listening to the media leads to false facts.

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You're not answering to my question, you're carefully evading it. If (look at the if in my post) all of what I posted would come out true, would the US do all of what I asked? Even if unlikely?

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No and you evaded my prime question in 2 war or not. When you answer that, I'll answer yours. Go back and read it, the 'defend that' part...

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Originally posted by Elrond

We now he HAD them, he might not have any WMD of any value anymore. Even if he has some that he didn't destroyed, it might be so old that it wouldn't harm you, would you try to breathe it.

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I'm not going to do the sniff test are you? :)

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I know SH lies a lot. He may say the truth sometimes. And if you have done all this war for a barrel of old gaz, it seems a little vain. As I said, I hope there will be more...

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Whoa there big fella, What truth, what truth do you think SH has said?

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It is NOT evident at all.

And I don't speak only about the US. I speak about every country. The international community made promesses for a lot of money for Afghanistan. They had almost none. Most of the money that came to rebuild and help people in Afghanistan has come from helping organism, not from public money from the international countries. This is not what was promised, and in that I talk about European countries as well as USA and others.

And the USA will have spend so much money in this war, to what you can add that it has lost a lot of money since Bush is president. You won't have much money to spend to help Iraq being rebuilt.

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Lets get something straight here. I don't like Bush, I hate the idiot. I would rather my trillion dollar tax cut gone to the defict. But the fact remains we are 40+% of the world economy, 100 billion is a drop in the bucket. And I'm sorry the european comunity isn't helping more, but I think some have. I know we have put billions into afghaninstan.

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It is even likely that Bush hopes that most of the other countries will feel guilty about what happened or something, and will give enough money to rebuilt Iraq so the US won't have to.

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Yes. Help us rebuild other countries. Isn't this what everyone is here for? Help us help the starving and the needly. Which country has contributed more to the world than the US?

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
Propaganda in full swing. Which movie were you watching when you deduced that?

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Not movie, documentary. Can't remember. If you want to, I'll look it up. If it were an unobjective documentary, would the US army have allowed it?

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
I read it. Your not there, who's to say some bomb didn't kill those soldiers, whos to say they were not fighting? You are not there, nor am I. No I'm not upset about the SCUDS, I was just answering your post before based on misinformation. Doesn't it just prove that watching/listening to the media leads to false facts.

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Still not read it? I said myself I was not there and so on. And since when is CNN a false source when if it were scuds it would be good news for the US? Is CNN involved in one of the conspiracies you accuse me to believe?

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
No and you evaded my prime question in 2 war or not. When you answer that, I'll answer yours. Go back and read it, the 'defend that' part...

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Which one would the prime question be? :rolleyes: A link would help. And it is easy to say answer that, you know pretty well that thread was closed on your own request.

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Originally posted by Simon666

Not movie, documentary. Can't remember. If you want to, I'll look it up. If it were an unobjective documentary, would the US army have allowed it?

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Yep look it up, I'm interested. Are you saying we represt all documentaries? Micahel Moore is in trouble then :)

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Still not read it? I said myself I was not there and so on. And since when is CNN a false source when if it were scuds it would be good news for the US? Is CNN involved in one of the conspiracies you accuse me to believe?

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I don't watch CNN other than crossfire, it's a bunch of drivel.

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Which one would the prime question be? :rolleyes: A link would help. And it is easy to say answer that, you know pretty well that thread was closed on your own request.

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Do I have to do all the work for you :) :) here's the link... the defend that part. I asked that the thread be closed because _we_ you and I seem to be firm in our believes (passionate), and I agree with Gabe saying that we are what could be seen as attacking each other which I don't think is the case. But it's besides the point the original question was to war or not to war, we are at war, so the point is moot.

http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showth...&pagenumber=17

I'm gone for Chinese dinner for a couple of hours. Could you post a direct link by the time I come back? Probably till tomorrow then.

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Originally posted by Simon666
I'm gone for Chinese dinner for a couple of hours. Could you post a direct link by the time I come back? Probably till tomorrow then.

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I thought I did, try opening the link and cntrl-F searching for defending

BTW: pick me up some beef and broc :) :) :) fried rice with that 2 :)

Can't we just start a thread called "The Simon and Mick show" (or "The Mick and Simon show" - you'd have to fight for that) where you two just go at it, no restrictions, the rest of us can all watch in amusement but not say anything? :D:D:D

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Originally posted by solarflare
Can't we just start a thread called "The Simon and Mick show" (or "The Mick and Simon show" - you'd have to fight for that) where you two just go at it, no restrictions, the rest of us can all watch in amusement but not say anything? :D:D:D

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How about we settle this like in an MTV deathmatch? :D I like the Marilyn Manson skeleton rip. :cool:

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
The pacifist view of 'don't rock the boat' your interrupting my beautiful life, that I can go home from work, and fix a nice dinner for my family, and tuck them away all satisfied at night. Meanwhile while I am protesting, I forget, that what I am doing is religating millions of people to DEATH. Starvation try reading about it, try reading about toture, rape and murder. Try protesting in the streets when a dictator drags your family away. But it's ok, I don't have to see that on the TV. I'd rather watch a military action that saves lives and protest about it. I'd much rather prefer the millions that are starving because of dictators (see North korea please and Iraq please) just go away and die and not bother my little world. It's ok, after all Saddam and Kim Jong will die, they won't be replace by a son or a cronnie, the starvation won't go on...but that bad bad USA..I just can't understand why they would choose a 1000 deaths over 10 million, there they go rocking the boat again...btw have you seen my peace sign?

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Is this your fabulous argument?

As far as starvation is concerned: the US bombed electricity plants in Basra so they are without food and electricity. And when the shiites go to the US troops they get no water and no food. Instead, I heard on the news the first thing shipped in by the engineers are pipelines to restore oil production, no humanitarian aid for the people starving due to US actions. And then wondering why they are not glad in the south. And do you think they forgot the old Bush told them to rise up but allowed the Republican Guard to massacre them? For them, Operation Iraqi Freedom is a cruel joke as they may be very hungry, but they don't eat US bullshit.

As far as rape, mass murder and torture, that track record is shear meaningless to the even worse toll of the humanitarian catastrophe caused by the US, deaths due to bombardments and the outbreak of diseases due to the lack of water and electricity, which can easily run into thousands or tens of thousands, the US is the greatest war criminal ever as this war is illegal. That is what we are protesting against. The starvation is currently bigger than ever, so I do prefer 1000 deaths over 10.000's due to the bad, bad USA.

How about shipping in humanitarian supplies in through Umm Qasr? To dangerous I hear? Not under control? It would cause unnecessary casualties? I thought it first was secure. But enough bitter sarcasm, even then the US doesn't care about unnecessary casualties as they want speed at the cost of the soldiers in the rear and elsewhere, just to appease the markets, the shareholders.

And the final result: the oil price will be 10 cents lower and stable for a longer period. Ten thousands of deaths for ten cents a gallon (around that) less, a justified price for George W. Bush who has no daughters at the front and whose home does not risk being bombed to smithereens. Hurray for the good ole USA. The entire world will bare the fruit and pay ten cents less (in Europe due to taxes nothing will probably change). That is what will happen when we appease to a dictator, and I mean Bush.

M comes before S. But I'm sure Simon would dispute that :) :) :)

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Originally posted by Mick_2002
M comes before S. But I'm sure Simon would dispute that :) :) :)

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Indeed. Last time I checked, 666 came before 2002. :p :cool:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Simon666

How about we settle this like in an MTV deathmatch? :D I like the Marilyn Manson skeleton rip. :cool:

Is this your fabulous argument?

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As far as starvation is concerned: the US bombed electricity plants in Basra so they are without food and electricity. And when the shiites go to the US troops they get no water and no food. Instead, I heard on the news the first thing shipped in by the engineers are pipelines to restore oil production, no humanitarian aid for the people starving due to US actions. And then wondering why they are not glad in the south. And do you think they forgot the old Bush told them to rise up but allowed the Republican Guard to massacre them? For them, Operation Iraqi Freedom is a cruel joke as they may be very hungry, but they don't eat US bullshit.

As far as rape, mass murder and torture, that track record is shear meaningless to the even worse toll of the humanitarian catastrophe caused by the US, deaths due to bombardments and the outbreak of diseases due to the lack of water and electricity, which can easily run into thousands or tens of thousands, the US is the greatest war criminal ever as this war is illegal. That is what we are protesting against. The starvation is currently bigger than ever, so I do prefer 1000 deaths over 10.000's due to the bad, bad USA.

How about shipping in humanitarian supplies in through Umm Qasr? To dangerous I hear? Not under control? It would cause unnecessary casualties? I thought it first was secure. But enough bitter sarcasm, even then the US doesn't care about unnecessary casualties as they want speed at the cost of the soldiers in the rear and elsewhere, just to appease the markets, the shareholders.

And the final result: the oil price will be 10 cents lower and stable for a longer period. Ten thousands of deaths for ten cents a gallon (around that) less, a justified price for George W. Bush who has no daughters at the front and whose home does not risk being bombed to smithereens. Hurray for the good ole USA. The entire world will bare the fruit and pay ten cents less (in Europe due to taxes nothing will probably change). That is what will happen when we appease to a dictator, and I mean Bush.

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Sorry I don't check the price of Gas as I fill up. But then I have a Gas friendly car. Humanitarin aid will flow when it is safe to flow. What you say is well again ridculous. Maybe you should look up how many Billions, that's with a 'B' the US puts out for humanitatiran aid.

EDIT: Engineers are being sent in to cap the oil fields set afire by iraqi's, I know I know, we bombed them and that set them on fire. Just like the oil trenchs we set on fire outside of baghdad. Nice pictures of Baghdad BTW lets make our own people breath the smoke from the oil trenches.