God and religion

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Originally Posted by mrRee

am I wrong:p....lust is not for sex only...lust to eat, lust to socialize, lust to play, lust to et cetra...

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I'm just saying that it was funny. ;) But since you asked about it.. the proper word would be "need". Like need to eat, sleep, drink, socialize.

/ Speaking of needs, we have physical needs (like food, shelter, clothing), emotional needs (like friends, family, love), etc... and these needs has to be satisfied/met.

// I believe humans have spiritual needs that animals don't have. And I believe this is the reason why we question why we are here, why we exist, and what the purpose of life is. But the problem is, people have different opinions as to the answer to these questions. Its confusing and frustrating sometimes. :sick:

but I like to use "lust" as the word....:eek:

if we're only use "need"...then we'll not overdo it if the need had been met...but because we have lust, even though we still full, we still want to eat and eat and eat...so if we can control the lust, we'll not be sitting on the couch eating junk food while watching tv;)

same like animals...they lust for food even though they had eaten all day...

but maybe, we can call it instinct...that's more like it...animals can't control their instinct because they don't have minds...but we can control our instinct if we use our minds properly...:rolleyes:

Ah, okay. If that's what you want to call it, then that's your prerogative. :)

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Originally Posted by che_rish

Believing that God is all-knowing (omniscient), is in contrast/conflict with what the Bible teaches that we are given Free Will. Why give us this gift if he has determined for us what will happen to us? Doesn't make sense, right?

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Then why are we told in every single church on this planet that God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent? A, paradox, don't you think?

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About those two scriptures you have quoted, I've researched about it and I found out it doesn't necessarily prove that God is human like you and me. Do you want me to show you using the Bible? Just let me know. ;)

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Of course I do.

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but I don't believe in evolution...the Darwin's theory really doen't make sense...

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You live in England, right? Here is a story from a city in England, no sure which, I believe it's Sheffield. In the 19th century, before the city was heavily industrialized, there was a scpecie of butterflyes that came in two colors: one that had yellow wings, and one with black wings. They were pretty even distributed. When industry was brought into town, and the smog turned the city sky and houses and the country side arround it to dark, the yellow butterflies were exerminated, and the black ones flourish. Why? Because the yellow ones were easier to spot by their natural predators (some birds), but the black ones, were camuflated within the environment. In a few years there were only black butterflies. Survival of the fittest. That is one element of evolution.

Well, nobody forces you to believe that everything evolved from some unicellular creature, but to deny that evolution takes place is like keeping your eyes wide shut.

I should say that this is a VERY Interesting thread. Here's my opinion / view / whatever you may call it.

firstlty, I'm ashamed to say that I haven't been in a church for about 12 years now, not because I'm an athiest, because of people and the church itself.

some Churches help themselves and not the people. priests, reverends commit murder - drink too much, but judge you. Homosexual priests, want to free people from sin, but they themselves are sinners :eek: . Churches want people with money, they don't help people that really need food. My parents were involved in a lot of church functions - no thank you was ever given, no appreciation for money brought in by the bookshop or fast food stalls. Instead of saying thank you, they took the bookshop away from my mom, gave it to someone else, which stole the church's money - ironic isn;'t it ¿ When my family really needed help - the church turned it's back.

That's my opinion on churches (probably off topic), but that doesn't mean I don't believe in God. Church is not God, we are just people. I for one, do believe in Him - because if it wasn't for Him, we wouldn't have had food on the table, and everything today. I do pray alot during the day. To say thank you, if it was a good day, or to ask to be with us, if things don't look right. I sincerely belive that everything (good or bad) happens for a reason - I don't think it's a game. Yes, we do have free will, but as I've said, everything happens for a reason, every choice you make happens for a reason (good or bad). What's the reason - time will tell. Sometimes you think you make a wrong decision, but it turns out to be a hidden blessing ¿

I don't know what else to say, but I'm thankful in Him, for everything everyday.

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some Churches help themselves and not the people. priests, reverends commit murder - drink too much, but judge you. Homosexual priests, want to free people from sin, but they themselves are sinners . Churches want people with money, they don't help people that really need food. My parents were involved in a lot of church functions - no thank you was ever given, no appreciation for money brought in by the bookshop or fast food stalls. Instead of saying thank you, they took the bookshop away from my mom, gave it to someone else, which stole the church's money - ironic isn;'t it ¿ When my family really needed help - the church turned it's back.

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In Romania, problably elsewhere also, there is a saying: do what the priest says, not what the priest does. When I see priests here in Romania buying a new car each a few years, builing their own houses, traveling each year to Germany, UK or US, and God know with what money, when there are people in their congregation who doesn't have enough food to eat or cloths to wear, and then they preach not to gather fortunes on earth for you will loose everything, because our fortune is in Heavens, well, it just makes me sick. :o

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Originally Posted by logan

Guys, read this true story...

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That's a completely false story.

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/noface.htm

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Originally Posted by cilu

You live in England, right?

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surprisingly, me English is very bad...Antartican didn't use English much...me walrus can't understamd it.... :D

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Survival of the fittest. That is one element of evolution.

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well, this one element is so in me sense...but me can't smell the sense of human apes...so me don't sense the assumption of how the human apes become the only creature that can figure out how this earth make a complete rotation around the sun in a day... :D

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...but to deny that evolution takes place is like keeping your eyes wide shut.

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me still can listen, smell, feel, taste, think :blush: ...maybe Darwin can't make me eyes wide open yet with his theory...maybe Darwin is the only human ape ever evolved to cook his mutton before eat it...loads of science stuffs, Darwin's stuffs are the biggest ironic... :eek:

//pardon me to use such written style...just making fool of my bloody self...again:D..

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surprisingly, me English is very bad...Antartican didn't use English much...me walrus can't understamd it....

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You did not anwer my question. If I was wrong I'm sorry, I was just left under this impression from former discussions.

HanneSThEGreaT - There are some set-ups built up and people do find out ways to break the exisiting systems and cause it damage for their personal goals, whatever may it be. But that doesnt force you to change your values. Are they so weak to be shaken by a handful of bad people? I know my values aren't.

Cilu - Religion and God (or thoughts or learning related to them) are somethings that we get as values from our parents, teachers and the surroundings during our childhood. And so since we dont have that much of a reasoning capability then we do accept those things being true. Questioning them later as you are doing now is totally reasonable. But one thing I would suggest you is - if you are really that much interested in proving the whole of the Bible or Hindu mythology (kirants pointed out this - calling it a story - I am not an extremist but you should choose words correctly when talking in context of Religion and beliefs) or any other religion as wrong - I would say you are not justified/authorized. I see you quoting quite a few lines from those holy books - one quick question - Have you read the book complete?

For example: If I have read a chapter about arrays only and not vectors or dynamic allocation of memory - I would really wonder if they (arrays) really do serve my purpose. I will see many limitations. But as soon as I read all the stuff about the language and say vectors (which are part of the language) I would know that yes C++ does answer to my questions. Sorry for this analogy - this might not fit well here - but little knowledge is bad in my opinion.

To my knowledge - Heaven, God, Religion may not be "things" that exist or something like that but atleast they are the best thoughts that originate from a human mind. That is our ultimate goal, that is the standard that we wish to achieve. (Its just my belief, you may agree, you may not - no issues)

I may not have been able to place my thoughts well here - sorry for the places where my words fall out of place. By the way - I agree with what JonnyPoet Sir says. When everything fails...everything...your logic, your science, your reasonings..everything...then these beliefs are something that you take refuge in. I quote "Where the science ends, spiritualism begins." In Hindi (our mother tongue in India) - "Jahan pe wigyan samapt hota hai wahan se aadhyatm ki shuruwaat hoti hai."

Also, I am against extremism of any kind !!!

IMHO, God and religion have nothing to do one with another. Religion is the 2nd oldest occupation known to mankind and an excellent tool to make money and gain power. Seing the priests, Sunday morning believers and especially what has been done in the name of religion makes me think that prostitution is a more honest occupation.

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Originally Posted by mrRee

maybe God not exist...but what if He exists....we have nothing to lose if we believe in God I think....

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Exactly. No harms until we reach the limits of extremism. This is something to think upon, read the scriptures/holy books, the teaching of the religion gurus. I dont think you'll find many on codeguru. :)

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Originally Posted by exterminator

This is something to think upon, read the scriptures/holy books, the teaching of the religion gurus.

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lol. What mr Ree said is actually a form of Pascal's wager.

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Originally Posted by exterminator

Cilu - Religion and God (or thoughts or learning related to them) are somethings that we get as values from our parents, teachers and the surroundings during our childhood. And so since we dont have that much of a reasoning capability then we do accept those things being true. Questioning them later as you are doing now is totally reasonable.

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Well, one of my mottos are "I doubt, therefore I think. I think, therefore I am".

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Originally Posted by exterminator

But one thing I would suggest you is - if you are really that much interested in proving the whole of the Bible or Hindu mythology (kirants pointed out this - calling it a story - I am not an extremist but you should choose words correctly when talking in context of Religion and beliefs) or any other religion as wrong -

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Just some quotes won't prove that. I'm not trying to prove you that, I'm expressing my belief and provide arguments for that. If you accept them or deny, well, that's up to you. But debate without arguments is pointless. I do not accept things like: "it is God's will", "unkown are the paths of Lord God", "only God knows".

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Originally Posted by exterminator

I would say you are not justified/authorized. I see you quoting quite a few lines from those holy books - one quick question - Have you read the book complete?

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I'm not qualified? Really? Was Caesar qualified to conquer the world? Was Newton qualified to run experiments and state the laws of dynamics? Was Mendel qualified to teach us about inherited traits? Were the Wright brothers qualified to build a plain and fly with it? Do I need some diploma to read some books and draw some conclusions from them? I think not. I'm not willing to accept everything, just because qualified people said so. If Einstein was listening to the qualified people we would not have a theory of relativity. And what makes me qualified to contest the interpretation of the Bible? A diploma from Oxford or Harvard? A panel of priests who acknowledge that I have read the Bible, or what? You see sometimes you must think for yourself, and don't let the mainstream blur your mind. And to answer your question, of course I have read the entire Bible. As for the hinduism/buddhism I don't know too much, and I haven't made any reference to that.

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Originally Posted by exterminator

but little knowledge is bad in my opinion.

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Yes, I agree. That's why you should study for yourself and do not let other impose their views upon you.

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Originally Posted by exterminator

When everything fails...everything...your logic, your science, your reasonings..everything...then these beliefs are something that you take refuge in. I quote "Where the science ends, spiritualism begins."

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Well, thank you. You just prove my point. That religion and faith were born from our desire of knowing that there is someone out there that watches over us, who punishes and rewards us.

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Originally Posted by PadexArt

God and religion have nothing to do one with another. Religion is the 2nd oldest occupation known to mankind and an excellent tool to make money and gain power. Seing the priests, Sunday morning believers and especially what has been done in the name of religion makes me think that prostitution is a more honest occupation.

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:D that was very funny...

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Originally Posted by cilu

:D that was very funny...

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Well it wasn't meant to be just funny. It is my honest belief.

I usually hate quoting movies when dealing this type of subjects but have you seen Stigmata? The whole story eveolves around a phrase that I think encapsulates best my beliefs. Quoting from memory: you can find Jesus in any tree, under any rock ... you don't need churches for that

I praise a man for how decent and kind he is, not for his political/relligious beliefs.

EDIT: the original quote:

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Jesus said...the Kingdom of God is inside you, and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood...and I am there, lift a stone...and you will find me.

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