I'm just worried that I am going to have the same issue with Java... I guess I gotta try and see.
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I'm just worried that I am going to have the same issue with Java... I guess I gotta try and see.
Of course, if you do learn Java first, then when you learn C++, you need to remember that just because certain constructs look similiar in Java as in C++, they are not necessarily the same thing. The new language has different idioms that need to be learnt. This is true whenever you learn a new programming language, but there is a certain amount of notoriety concerning Java to C++ learners, probably because many students learn Java as their first programming language then stumble when learning C++ because they assume that C++ is effectively Java.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ
That's a good point. Hopefully I remember that when I go back a year from now :P
Hmm... I'm going to do a last ditch bit of advocacy of the programming language that I favour for absolute beginners: have you tried Computer Science Circles?
Not to mention Python is a powerful and useful language. C++ isn't the easiest language to learn. Another thing to keep in mind is that whichever language you do choose, you could also try finding exercises for other languages. So, if you choose Python, but find 10 exercises for C++, then do those in Python instead.
Hmm.. With all due respect, I think some of you guys are taking advantage of this beginner programmer's thread, in order to promote a specific language. The OP simply wants to learn C++. He didn't ask about Python, so the thread shouldn't be focused on getting him to go to Python. As easy as Python's syntax is to read, I just can't believe that one language would be "better" to learn first over any other, and I have my own personal experiences to back that statement up.
Harrison. If you want to learn C++, then learn C++. You can research day and night for the 'best language,' the 'best first language,' the 'easiest language,' etc. You will ultimately never find the answer you are looking for until you simply try them all. I suggest you stick with C++. Window's is built on C/C++, and even though Microsoft is making other languages more accessible, C/C++ is still the top language being used, today. Java is not far behind, it simply hasn't had enough time yet to pass C/C++ up (but I'm sure it will). If you are not concerned with which language has more popularity, then disregard those lines.
If you need a programming tutor, then I will fill the position for a while. I love helping and working with enthusiastic programmers. I would love helping you here and there on concepts that need to be expanded. You could simply post a thread on any programming forum on the concept you need help with, but you will get users who have nothing better to do than to bash on you for not using Google search. If you have time on your side (and since you area a high-school student, I'm sure you have all the time in the world), then Google searching will fulfill many of your questions. However, if you need or want to learn more quickly, then having someone to count on is the way to go.
Feel free to message me whenever about anything.
Wow. This was exactly what I needed. The thing about a tutor (and thank you so much for the offer) is that I would need to be able to talk to them live. If you are willing to do that on occasion, you don't know how much I would appreciate it. If you just want to message, that's fine, but like I said in the OP, I am more of a hands-on kinda guy.
Thank you so much for actually understanding what I need. I appreciate all the other suggestions, but this is exactly what I meant.
If your focus is entirely on learning a programming language, then certainly none of them is "better" than another for that task. However, programming is not about learning programming languages. A complete beginner is faced with the challenge of learning the programming language, but also with learning how to program, i.e., the skill of designing and writing programs to solve problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
Indeed. No matter what programming language you already know, you cannot get away from that fact. However, a programming language is just a tool; a programmer should eventually have more than one programming language in his/her toolbox. Hence, the idea behind recommending Python (or C# or Java, even though I have my reservations about Java due to my experience with Java to C++ learners on these message boards) before C++ is to learn by using a tool that is easier to learn (less programming language specific knowledge to acquire before being able to write "useful" programs; fewer pitfalls that a beginner is likely to stumble on), then add the tool that you want after you have a programming background.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
Thank you for backing me up. However, I feel that your post is more directed towards me than the OP. But, I feel that I don't need any advice, and I certainly didn't ask for any. On top of that, he never said what he wanted to do with the knowledge, and after talking with him tonight, he still doesn't have any real goal. With such little information, I severely doubt the usefulness of pointing him to any specific language. Furthermore, his focus was to get a tutor. Simply focusing on that fact alone, I would say that over half the posters here completely disregarded his request.
Even on top of that, I swear I saw people arguing with each other on stuff that had nothing to do with the OP and his request. I know I haven't been around very long and that I haven't read too many threads; however, I hope this forum isn't just another place for programming trolls.
In any case, the best language to start out with is pseudo-code, hands down.
Guys, please understand my real point, it's not about gaining anything on my side. And please take no offence about this my note, but I doubt about this business resulting in any success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
With all my respect, reality tells me that beginner cannot learn from other beginner anything good. I really hope that I'm wrong in this particular case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
It was directed at you since it responded to your statements, though in responding to you, I also explained my train of thought to anyone interested, possibly including HarrisonTZ :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
If HarrisonTZ's goal is to learn how to program, then my advice is relevant. If not, then finding a tutor was irrelevant to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
That is a very narrow minded view. We're not minions here to do someone's bidding; we're people who have our own perspectives on how best to help someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
Not really: it is good in that the focus is on the algorithm, not the syntax; it is bad in that there is no feedback to be obtained by running the code to see if it really works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
I love how you spend so much effort using quotes and typing out usernames. I'm sorry that I do not do the same, but I'm sure you can follow me perfectly fine.
My view is not narrow minded. In fact, the OP suggested many times that he is not completely uneducated in regard to his request. If he wanted to know which language was better, he would have asked. Perhaps, due to the fact that some of the members here kept badgering him to consider a [different] specific language, he eventually started questioning if C++ is the way to go. Please refrain from attacking me personally. You cannot possibly know whether or not my view is open minded or narrow minded with my single post alone. If I am wrong in saying this, please consider chatting with me elsewhere. I would love to hear your theories on psychoanalysis.
Also, just a little fyi, sometimes people like to use some sort of stylistic offset in order to distinguish serious text from sarcasm. The last line in my post is such a time.
Also, @Igor.
I specifically stated that I am above beginner level. Let me clarify this one more time. I have been programming over 8 years. If I am still a beginner programmer after so long, then I, too, would question why I even started C++ less than a year ago. I also have to disagree with you. I believe a beginner can teach another beginner perfectly fine. As long as the teacher knows the concepts he is teaching, there should be no problem.
That view is narrow minded because it pre-supposes that a question must only be answered in exactly the way that the help seeker envisioned, disregarding the possibility that there may be alternatives that the help seeker did not foresee. Notice that the criticism is directed towards the view, not the person, so it is not a personal attack. Furthermore, since it is directed towards the statement itself, that the view expressed in that statement is narrow minded can be determined from the single post.
Also, while an experienced programmer can teach a beginner to program, doing so with a programming language in which he/she is still a novice is probably not the best idea since the lack of familiarity with the language's idioms may cause him/her to unintentionally teach bad habits.
I will not unintentionally teach him bad programming or C++ habits. Have no worry.
As much as I would like to continue our arguing, I believe that this is suffice enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ
EDIT: I realized that there might be some controversy as to what I am getting at. This is simply to show that my statement cannot be taken as narrow minded. Furthermore, I was not referring to the posts prior to the post in the quote; rather, only to latter posts. Also, statements do not pre-suppose.. They do not have minds. They do not have views. Only a person has those qualities. If you make a comment about my statement, then that is one thing. {#1} I hereby stand by statement.
DOUBLE EDIT: And putting all of that nonsense aside:
The first sentence is a fact. The opening clause of the second sentence is suggesting my specific train of thought and is therefore excluded from being open or narrow minded. The dependent clause of the second sentence... is also a fact. The main idea overall is simply an observation. Though, let us be honest here, it also is true. "I don't want suggestions for other languages..." - HarrisonTZQuote:
Originally Posted by Vlykarye
"...that over half the..." This was a quick estimation. Please refrain from criticizing this portion of the text. Thanks.
#1 - I retract this statement, as it makes absolutely no sense: {However, if you are suggesting that you know what I pre-assume, then that is another.}. I'm not sure what I was getting at.