The earth's ecosystem - that could breed life! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishnaa
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The earth's ecosystem - that could breed life! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishnaa
I will not dispute that. They were all exceptional people. I am not speaking for or against theism. Just a general observation from the world around me. Peace :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew Joy
It is a law of logic that an omnipotent being cannot create an immovable object. God is also that law of logic and it's creator. God cannot create an immovable object or self destruct because the law says so. But the diety is the law and the law is the diety. So, the diety's omnipotence cannot be disputed using this argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilu
Really? I never heard of that law of logic before. I didn't know logic and God are tied together. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahir
An omnipotent being creating an object to defeat itself is called a contradiction in logic. Aristotle's law of noncontradiction states : "One cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time."Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
Heard of the Barber who is required to shave anyone who does not shave himself ? If barbers can be tied to logic why not God ? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cilu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradoxQuote:
Originally Posted by Sahir
Here is a link in case any one is wondering if that was an instance of meaningless randomness :)
Of course I've heard. There are different versions of such logical contradictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahir
In a library, there is a book that has a reference to every book in the library that doesn't have a reference to itself.
Question: does the book refer itself?
They are all particularizations of the problem of the set that contains all the subsets that do not contain themselves. And the question is: does the set contain itself?
Cilu, can you define what an immovable rock is? How heavy would it have to be and how do we know the limits of God's strength when his Will is enough to create the universe?
Is there a certain number of tons of rock where it becomes immovable?
You should know that that is relative. For instance there are things your wife cannot move/lift but you can. So, how cau you define a limit, a weight for that? It depends on each person or the tools used to move/lift it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniz
Can philosophy create a paradox it can not solve?
If the answer is yes then we (humans) have our limits.
Now try to imagine a being without any known limits to man.
You should be able to answer your original question about the immovable rock.
Regardless, the is a huge problem with religion. Whether there is a god or isn't shouldn't matter, religion seperates poeple from each other for the dumbest reason I have ever seen.
Guy #1's mental image of a superior begin and his dictation of that is different from Guy #2. Although some types can get along, there will always be a barrier of differences on something niether of them can prove or disprove, but out of some ignorant whole of wisdom they both believe their beliefs are right.
I don't believe in a god, and I've never seen anything more incredible than the power of man. Religion seems like a waste of life.
no one can convince no one to follow any religion.
i think if we are really truly positively interested in knowning the truth than we shud <<try>> to know the truth.
like for example, in search for the truth, we shud:
- open, unbiased, and welcoming.
- read the translations of holy books from various religions. a few given this website: http://www.cftech.com/BrainBank/OTHE...HolyBooks.html
- attend seminars, read books, news, critical views, meet religious ppl. ask questions. several questions. lots and lots of questions. and with every convincing answer re-organize ourself. in the end, even if we wud not be able to find the truth, we sure will be very much closer to the truth. and that effort sure is an achievement.
- shud not get inspired by the ppl's attitude, cuz somtimes we will find bad ppl following a respectable religion, and similarly vice versa; so this shud not deviate us from the path, the search for truth, we are trying to seek. i.e. we shud not mix ppl attitude with their regilion, cuz some follow and some dont.
- shud always keep our heart and mind open. broad, understanding and unbiased, and only then we will be able to find the truth. as nobodys perfect, keeping an open mind, will allow us to correct ourselves, and with the passage of time(lika natural process of life) may help us in discovering, if not achieving, the truth.
in the end, watever we plan to follow, we shud be very, very clear abt our views and concepts. i mean "crystal-clear"[1]. be what we want to be. follow the one that our intuition guide us towards, so that on any arbitary discussion we can prove the reason(if asked) why we chose, and thus convince(if they're willing to listen) others for the same.
1. crystal-clear means, being very very clear, why, what, how, when, etc, we follow the religion we chose. and if ever asked, either we shud be able to convince why do we follow the religion we chose, or otherwise be ready to listen and welcome other ppls views and suggestions for the same.
You are so wrong. People convince other people all the time to follow one or another religion. ;)Quote:
no one can convince no one to follow any religion
Religion is the worse thing mankind has ever invented. Even worse than the atomic bomb.
Religion kills! Stay away from religion.
Deniz, What is religion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniz
Religion is man trying to find God through man made means.
So, are man made means enough to find or know something that what we call god(the creator,destructor & protector) of universe which has no end & compared to which we are not even a speck of dust?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniz
Quote:
Originally Posted by erankushmehta
Unfortunately no. Man is not capable of holiness on his own.
I've got two conflicting views to put forwards here.
When I was studying biochemistry I was absolutely staggered by how many coincidences go to make up even the simplest operation in the human body. These aren't just coincidences which could be explained away by evolution : they are in the chemistry created at the start of the universe. Even to the point that if one electron shell was at a slightly different potential then certain molecules necessary for life to exist just wouldn't - and neither would life.
That said there are a large number of philosophical statements which logically disprove the existance of God.
For instance there's the determinancy argument - one of my favourites - which states :
(1) God is omnipotent and therefore knows everything.
(2) Therefore he has known from the creation of the universe whether everyone is going to go to heaven or hell.
(3) This means that our lives are predestined and so nothing we do can change the ulitmate outcome.
(4) But hey - the Bible says we have free will.
So I think it just comes down to personal taste. If religion works for you then go for it ! If not, then so what !
But it should be borne in mind that religion should be taken like all other addictive things - in moderation.
Darwen.
That is one side of the story, life from God's perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by darwen
If you look at it from mans perspective we have free will and we can make our own choices. We can choose to ignore God, we can choose to reject God etc.
It would be wrong to use predestination as a means to reject God because we ultimately don't know what our destination is from God's perspective.
The very existence of god simply can't be denied.It will be simply foolish to think that an order of such a complex system of this cosmos whose end even we don't now has come automatically.
However, we the humans by its very nature & consequently the erroneous hypothesis & tools can't understand the god(but he is there).
our karma (actions) decides our destiny. It is in our hands.
According to who?Quote:
Originally Posted by erankushmehta
There is no such thing as destiny.Quote:
Originally Posted by erankushmehta
And it's not foolish to believe, some supernatural being that came from... our imaginations, created everything?Quote:
The very existence of god simply can't be denied.It will be simply foolish to think that an order of such a complex system of this cosmos whose end even we don't now has come automatically.
It's all a matter of belief. Belief gives you persistance.
I'm currios to know how many of you have you seen Derren Brown's Messiah program? Or any of his programs for that matter.
In "Messiah" he proves how can 'instantly' convert and then deconvert people from Christianity. A real mind-bugger.
In "Seance" he shows how people can be influenced to believe they communicate with the spirit of dead people (while that people are actually alive and kicking).
In "The Heist", after 2 weeks of 'programming' he determins 3 out of 4 people (all from the middle management class) to rob a bank.
"Mind Control" and "Tricks of the Mind" are another programs that show how much people can be 'programmed' with neuro-lingvistic methods. It really makes you rethink many of the things you believe in or taken for granted. The mind is like and open sheet ready to be written.
Cilu I've seen people be convinced that they are chickens in a show too. The guy hypnotized them and the poor people started walking around thinking they were chickens.
Isn't that something to think about? ;)
No. Definitelly 99% of those are fakes, but there are some genuine things. And this guy doesn't use actors or stooges. It really worth watching, trust me, I'm very skeptical usually, but there's more than meets the eye. ;)
Sounds like something interesting to watch.
But I wouldn't take it any more seriously than anything else I read/watch.
Sure. And BTW, you can go with the 512. Because it's closer to the half mile.