But how do YOU know? Are you proficient in any modern languages or platforms? Is VB6 your only language? I sure hope not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
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But how do YOU know? Are you proficient in any modern languages or platforms? Is VB6 your only language? I sure hope not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
Yes I am "proficient" in some modern languages and two platforms, and I avoid VB .NET (because that's what it is all about it seems) for the simple reason that the app's are super addicted (and slow) to too many files!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
But, are you "proficient" in any "modern" languages or platforms ??! :)
It is funny really. Yes VB6 was a great language and many of us continue to use it. I use it quite often and still write projects in it. Mostly because I have been using it for a very long time and am totally comfortable in it.
That said I also use VB 2003, 2005, 2008 quite a lot also. These are much more powerful than VB6 and if you know how to use them can write faster running programs than VB6 while giving you more control over them and a greater amount of re-usable code.
There will be no new version of VB6, VB6 is a single version of VB just like VB Dos was and VB 2012 Is they are all Visual Basic and they have went through some major changes along the way.
Just because some people would rather work in the VB5/6 environment does not mean it is better than VB7-10 nor does it mean that they will create a VB 6.5 all these years later.
Face it. You should learn to use VB.Net You'll be surprised just how cumbersome it is to code in VB6 after having used VB.Net for a while not to mention being able to create mobile apps, xbox games, multithreaded apps and having 1000s of classes at your finger tips. There is a learning curve but once you get up to speed the newer versions are better,
As for the legal copies of VB, you can still get a legal copy it is just that most of those people I speak of are not real programmers, they just download something from a torrent site and use it illegally rather than pay the money for it.
I picked up another copy [legal copy] of VB6 myself last year which I got directly from Microsoft. I also got VB 2012 at the same time and SQL Server 2012 and Windows 8
for those who say vb6 is bad because it does not implement pure OOP
http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/...d-programming/
virtually useless object oriented programing check out the slides and audio recording
http://www.meetup.com/VanDev/events/16863266/
Nobody said it was bad. It simply is TOO OLD to use (technology wise)
I notice today with interest that Microsoft has appointed a new CEO, Satya Nadella. Apparently he comes from the original NT development team and is a developer at heart. Perhaps the calls to maintain VB6 may be heard, or at least ANSWERED. Yes or No or Maybe ? Why is Microsoft quiet about this thread ? Do they care ? Does anyone of consequence give a **** ?
Now if there was SOMEONE out there willing to at least listen (without automatically going into IT CANT BE DONE mode) ......
Perhaps all that is needed (and I think someone has already suggested this) is to create an OPTIONAL Compiler for EXISTING VB6 Code which will allow the resultant EXE to run on .... What do you want ?
Windows8, WindowsRT, Android, iPhone, iPad ... you get the drift.
Dont try to re-invent the wheel - just give the good wheel some optional tires, and new roads to run on.
Seems simple to me, but then. I'm not a compiler programmer.
But for example, there is a project on PlanetSourceCode which is doing some of the above - recompiling VB6 code to run as a stand alone exe.
I dont believe that the people creating this compiler come from a company employing 1000's and 1000's of university accredited programmers.
(They would still be on the drawing board arguing about what colour the screens should be).
No, I would guess they are people out there WHO DO GIVE A **** and DO WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
How is it that a small group of people can change the world while the masses simply sit back and tell you why it cant be done ??
If Microsoft is not interested in helping keep VB6 alive, then perhaps this thread should be redirected to become a call to create an OpenSource project on a NEW VB6 Compiler development.
Now dont you think that might be interesting ?
Imagine .... Write your App in VB6 and run it on the Apple OS - this will definitely sell lots more iPads - perhaps Apple might throw in a few of their programmers to get the project started.
Me thinks if I was Apple, it would be a great investment to steal another percentage share of the already shaky Microsoft Windows Surface Tablet Computer market.
Perhaps Google may like the idea of running VB6 programs on their Android platform - that should bring in at least one extra compiler programmer.
I mean, these guys just may have one or two dollars to throw at a project like this, dont you think ? And all us VB6 programmers become their new sales people ! (for free!)
In the meantime, I have to go back to work now, writing code in VB6 to make a living - yes - it is possible in the 21st century to make a living writing VB6 code !
Now who would have thought that ?
In my opinion, time is better spent learning the current technologies that Microsoft supports rather than hoping Microsoft will bring back something they decided to kill nearly 20 years ago. To me, the bottom line is Microsoft is in business to make money and make their shareholders happy and to that end the plan most likely doesn't involve bringing back a new version of VB6.
Sure. Just have them run DOS!Quote:
Perhaps Google may like the idea of running VB6 programs on their Android platform
This is just your opinion ! :) We, the VB6 programmers, know the current technologies that Microsoft supports (so we must NOT learn them again), these current technologies that you speak of are for children, because of this there are no advanced source codes for their "NEW" technologies! We will see if MS will bring or not bring back a new VB6 !Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Sure, you did not understand anything of what is said here and you do not understand the problem ... very sad!Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
We all ask that but MS thinks of the VB6 problem (I can assure you of that). Many VB6 programmers have made phone calls to Microsoft representatives and continues to do so! Now Visual Basic 6.0 is the 5th place on the idea scale on Microsoft uservoice site:Quote:
Originally Posted by George1111
http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/fo...improved-versi
Another thing are the ratings of VB6 which are by far the highest in all rankings:
VB6 on place 1:
http://www.theranking.com/what-is-th...e-world_r55229
VB6 on place 1:
http://www.theranking.com/what-is-th...ge-ever_r43672
VB6 on place 1:
http://www.theranking.com/best-progr...e-world_r36102
"IT CANT BE DONE mode" begins to disappear :)Quote:
Originally Posted by George1111
Here is an interesting and recent discussion:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...0-0fa95cb732c3
Quote:
Originally Posted by George1111
The "IT CANT BE DONE" individuals are NOT the masses, they are just 10 individuals who are paid to destroy the reputation of VB6 (but this is impossible to do).
Microsoft has not said he is not interested in helping keep VB6 alive. In the event that Microsoft still won't listen, VB6 fans' plan B could be to write a new IDE + compiler (see http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...A-True-VB-7-0)) along with the help of Olaf Schmidt's vbRichClient framework (http://www.vbrichclient.com) and many many others.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1111
True ! And Google likes the idea of running VB6 programs on their Android platform, YES IT DOES! such a project has appeared in Google ! Is incredible, even Google is seeing how powerful Visual Basic 6.0 is !Quote:
Originally Posted by George1111
Me! and other 150000 VB6 programmers !Quote:
Originally Posted by George1111
You didn't address my point about MS wanting to make money and keep the share holders happy. If MS did invest in a new VB6 version, how do you see them recovering their investment? You say there are 150,000 VB6 programmers.. do you think that would be enough for MS to be profitable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
YES! (although I think there are far more than 150000) VB. NET and other programming languages have much much less programmers than Visual Basic 6.0 has. 500$ X 150000 = 75000000$ (and they would make the new version of Visual Basic 6.0 for popularity also, not only for money, although popularity translates into money also)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Unfortunately, this isn't at all realistic. In forming my reply I wanted to try to get an idea of sales of Visual Studio compared with VB6 (not really a valid comparison, but at least a starting point). I didn't have much success, but I did find the Visual Studio wiki page which has a nice timeline on the Visual Studio releases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
Included on the page is a chart that shows 10 releases of Visual Studio starting in April 1995 and ending with the VS 2013 release October 2013. Native VB was included in only the first 3 releases, the last of which was June 1998. There have been 7 releases since 1998 that do not have native VB.
Comparing the Visual Studio wiki page with the Visual Basic wiki page, I see that the last native version shipped in 1998 with VB6 (same as the VS wiki page) and that mainstream support for it ended in March, 2005 and extended support ended in March 2008. I also see that back then, the VB6 supporters weren't happy about it:
Footnotes [13], [14] and [18] are interesting:Quote:
In response, the Visual Basic user community expressed its grave concern and lobbied users to sign a petition to keep the product alive.[13] Microsoft has so far refused to change their position on the matter.[14]
13. "Petition to Microsoft". Classicvb.org. 2005-03-08. Retrieved 2009-06-16.
14. Al Tenhundfeld (2009-03-04). "Visual Basic 6.0 to be Supported on Windows 7". The Register. Retrieved 2009-03-05.
18. Piquet, Lori (2002-02-20). "Abandoning the Fantasy of VB Migration Wizardry". DevX.com. Jupitermedia. Retrieved 2007-05-17.
Footnote 13 (petition) indicates that 14627 folks have signed the petition since March, 2005. That's a far cry from 150,000 VB developers that you claim.
Footnote 14 indicates that MS supported the VB6 runtime on Windows 7, but didn't plan on including in future versions so it must be out for Windows 8?
Footnote 18 discusses the difficulties in migrating VB6 apps to .Net. Written in 2002, the post quotes Federico Zoufaly (in charge of developing the VB6 to .Net migration wizard):
We're talking about the difficulty to migrate existing code in VB6 back in 2002 and that it was recommended 12 years ago that folks "learn VS.Net first".Quote:
Zoufaly will not tell you that migrating VB6 to VB.NET is in any way easy. It is not in his nature to lie. He is more of a developer turned executive rather than the other way around. He seems vaguely nonplussed by his newfound stature in the development world. Talking to him last week at VSLive!, he gave a very candid appraisal of the technology his company has created and the challenges which are inherent in migration—both the ones that his tool can solve and the ones that it can't.
A pragmatist, Zoufaly advises that VB developers first accept the following immutable truths:
you should not attempt migration until after your migration team has studied and learned the .NET environment
migration, particularly the first time you do it, is going to be very frustrating
migration is in no way a hands-off process
some applications simply cannot be migrated automatically
the only applications worth migrating are those which the company intends to significantly enhance with functionality that only .NET can provide
In other words, if you've imagined a process by which one loads some VB6 code into the wizard, does a few days' worth of debugging and testing, and emerges with a VB.NET application, you are living a fantasy. And the sooner you abandon that fantasy the better off you will be.
Zoufaly advises that developers should expect to spend a minimum of two to three weeks in training on the migration process and using the migration tool in practice before attempting an actual migration. And that is two to three weeks on top of the weeks and months that developers should spend learning VB.NET and the .NET framework.
"I'm not sure that [VB6 developers] realize how much more difficult it is," says Zoufaly. "But they should be able to get it. The best advice I can give is to learn VS.NET first."
After a developer is sufficiently comfortable with .NET and has spent several weeks in studying the migration process with the tool, Zoufaly says that a migration should progress at an average rate of just 7,000 to 10,000 lines of code per week. Therefore, a 1 million-line VB6 application will take 100 weeks—two years—to upgrade. Seems a little slow for something that Microsoft had the hubris to dub a migration "wizard."
So if the history of VB, the continued history of VS without VB6, the end of VB6 support in 2008, recommendations to learn VS.Net 12 years ago, and the fact that only 14627 folks signed a 2008 petition doesn't convince you that VB6 isn't coming back, nothing will.
The VB6 folks are nothing if not persistent. Misguided maybe, but persistent to be sure.
Hey, I'd be the first to get in line to get paid to destroy it's reputation. You seem to be doing a better job of it, though.Quote:
The "IT CANT BE DONE" individuals are NOT the masses, they are just 10 individuals who are paid to destroy the reputation of VB6 (but this is impossible to do).
And the point is ?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
And the point is ?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
I know the history of Visual Studio man ! I do not understand why you telling me something I already know ... and many do !
Man! put down the pipe! "Footnote 18" should tell you much ! I am NOT "talking about the difficulty to migrate existing code in VB6". Are you coherent in programming as your text here is ?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Visual Basic 6.0 is supported until 2020 ! Again, you do not know what you're talking about!
Do you understand what 14627 Visual Basic 6.0 programmers means ?! It is aaaaaaaaaaaaaa lot or programmers !!! We are not talking about the masses (the regular people), we are talking about real programmers !!! 14627 IS HUGE !Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Who are you to talk like that about a whole community?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
Show your muscles with an advanced open source project, then you have the right to misguided statements like this !
You are inline already and you're one of the 10 ! you have no idea what is happening do you !?Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
Sure. I was a Microsoft MVP in Visual Development (which meant VB6 BEFORE .Net) as it was coming out.
:( then how can you resist to a proposal for a new Visual Basic 6.0 ?! Dglienna, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4wh0IksOfgQuote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
If Microsoft will not come back with a NEW Visual Basic 6.0 (and very very soon !), then we will, Google will also. How do you respond to that ?! Do you want a Google Visual Basic 6.0, Microsoft wants that ?! Come on !
News flash - Google isn't going to do it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
News flash - They can't ! yet ! (you lack of a sense of logic and coherence in writing text, you better let others to make a comment, those who understand the problem)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
YES WE CAN ! Visual Basic 6.0 for Android made by US, the developers !: http://www.planetsourcecode.com/vb/s...75245&lngWId=1
Whoa, and that's coming from a guy that wants to bring back VB6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
Knock yourself out.
Why would Google license a dead technology, just to release a new product to react to wanting the same old thing a new way? Google never has done that. They're more about NEW
The only company you can trust won't let you down like this is IBM. It's amazing what number of obscure languages they keep supporting decade after decade after decade. Remember that the next time you bet on a technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
But Basic is a dead language. Or at least in a coma on life support in Redmond. The only reason it made it into .NET was for sentimental reasons. Bill Gates is emotionally attached to the language since the early DOS days. But now Mr. Gates is leaving and that's the end of Basic.
So the best you can do is to switch now. If you want to punish Microsoft then Java is an excellent choise, backed both by Oracle and most importantly by IBM. Otherwise C# is the obvious choise.
Drop Basic and get on with it. :)
Oh, VB.Net is changing every day. MVP's and ex-MVP's (as well as anybody) can file a bug on CONNECT. Vote for what you'd like, and if it gets enough votes, it's added when possible.
What post are you replying to and why?Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
The first one. http://connect.microsoft.com/
Play nice!!!
Ginercia, first you attack me and take my knowledge in question. You may know that what I have forgotten about VB 6, you may never know. Yes, read it as is. I have stayed away from this thread because of your first comments to me.
I have decided to join the discussion again, because now you are attacking Arjay and his reputation. Arjay is IMHO one of the most clever people I have had the pleasure of knowing. I will never know everything he knows. If I were you, I would take his opinions seriously.
Now, everyone : Everyone has a right to his / her opinion. There is however a line. Now, when this line gets crossed it is not nice. This thread starts to move into a flame war thread, hence my replying.
We are all supposed to be adults, professionals, great minds sharing ideas. It is senseless to attack people personally just because you do not agree with a certain point. It is plain childish and spoilt-bratty.
Like any other person, I will defend myself; and I do not blame others defending themselves. But, we can only defend ourselves up to a point. ( this is the line I keep on referring to ).
Let us not cross that line here in this thread...
Now everybody, go take a nice smoke break, or a cold shower, or go watch a silly movie- frankly I do not care what you do to "calm" yourselves down, as long as you come back and not cross the line...
Actually considering how many programmers there are out there and how many wannabees call themselves VB programmers I would say that is a very tiny number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginerica
When I browse Internet forums related to VB6 I see a handful of people that know what they are talking about and 100s who barely have a clue
So, if you file a bug on connect to save vb6, then see how many votes you can get. get enough, and they might dust off the floppies
I wonder if any of the developers who worked on VB6 are still there? It has been a very long time.
I know I would hate to be tasked with revamping a huge project that I did 15 years ago :( That would be a nightmare just getting back up to speed and understanding what does what before any coding to even begin.
Even worse if I wasn't the one who wrote it in the first place and worse still if the original author is not available for insight.
I'd bet it wouldn't get many votes. That was my point
Well, I guess we're getting there? http://channel9.msdn.com/coding4fun/...th-anniversary
Glad to see it now has that modern look.
Doesn't do much use, though. Just a sidekick to .Net
Thousands of clients do not have the $$$ to have perfectly good applications rewritten. VB6 has just passed .Net (number 5) on the TIOBE index. Many developers feel VB6 is quicker to market and easier to support than .Net. VB6 works GREAT with the largest and newest version of Oracle (12c).
If one was to follow the facts, one can only wonder how a company could ignore such a huge opportunity for income. At this point all those forced to .Net have gone. What are left are all the developers keeping it the 5th most popular programming language on this planet. No small number.
VB6 has\is built many of the worlds mission critical applications. All the developers want is a 64-bit compiler\IDE. Is that really a lot to ask?
Obviously.
So why would they need to be re-written? If they work perfectly fine then there is no reason to spend thousands of dollars rewriting them. As for quicker to market, this would be true if you are very experienced in VB6 and not in VB.Net but if you know you way around VB.Net and have been using it everyday for some time it is quicker than VB6 no doubt. I have been using both VB6 and VB.Net side by side for the last 10 years and was using VB for about 10 years before that and I definitely can crank out lots of things faster in VB.Net than in VB6 even though I can crank em out pretty quick in VB6. It largely depends on experience, design and knowledge of the languages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberious1
I don't see such a huge opportunity for income. Unless a new edition on classic VB is offered that has a large number of improvements, additions, target platforms and such it would not sell all that well. Especially considering that lots of people are moving to mobile devices that classic VB does not support. It would likely be a large investment to modify VB6 in even a few small ways and redistribute it likely larger than the demand for it.Quote:
If one was to follow the facts, one can only wonder how a company could ignore such a huge opportunity for income. At this point all those forced to .Net have gone. What are left are all the developers keeping it the 5th most popular programming language on this planet. No small number.
As for what languages are most popular, amongst newbies and wannabes VB is pretty high on the list for sure, Amongst hard core experienced programs it drops a bit on that list. A lot of the people who have moved to .Net also still use VB6, myself included. I moved to .Net in 2003 as it could do things that I needed to do and could not be done in VB6.
Vb6 is far from being alone in that list of languages that have build some critical apps and became obsolete, it is not even a biggie in that regard. You must consider that major applications were being written long before VB came into existence and they will continue long after VB6 is forgotten.Quote:
VB6 has\is built many of the worlds mission critical applications. All the developers want is a 64-bit compiler\IDE. Is that really a lot to ask?
6 is the longest lived version of VB for sure but I don't see them investing in an updated version.
You don't have to like the facts but they are that VB6 is one of the top programming development system still in 2014. For all those that want to use .Net, Pascal, COBOL, Java etc. go for it! People should be allowed to use what they feel is best...including VB6.
For most of what I my clients need, a 64-bit version of VB6 would continue to meet their needs for many years to come.
That goes both ways. The fact is that Microsoft apparently doesn't see any business value in bringing back a new version of VB6. Until the VB6 community can convince MS there is value in it, the VB6 revival movement will continue to be only internet chatter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberious1
Of course all but the one on the bottom are one of the top ;) VB6 is not nearly as widely used as some people seem to think. The fact is Microsoft moved away from VB6 many years ago. You should consider yourself lucky that the apps built in VB6 still work under the last 5 operating systems released by MS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberious1
The 32 bit existing version works fine and may handle the needs of your clients for years to come, then again they may come up with a new OS next year that makes old VB apps not work at all. The the client can stay with the OS that they do work on or they can move on to something else. The same could happen with a 64 bit compiler if one were to exist.Quote:
For most of what I my clients need, a 64-bit version of VB6 would continue to meet their needs for many years to come.
In my case if a 64 bit version was released then if it also included some new features and/or supported additional platforms I would consider buy it. If it were just the compiler it would have to be cheap, but a full blown improved version especially one that could work on more than just a Windows PC I may consider paying full price but that is very unlikely to happen.
Please let people know about a crowd funding project to create a vb6 replacement.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a...e-and-compiler
hmmm 1 team member and no clear direction nor staff to do the work. Really does not sound like something that would be a wise investment.
Please show me your framework so your comment may have some credibility. If you do not know what is involved or have intimate experience in this realm i question your statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMiser
I am going on the advise from Karl E. Peterson and others of that stature, that if anyone can pull this off it is Olaf (vbrichclient.com author)
If and when the funds are available, those who gave will vote on which precise direction we go. I have faith in the vb6 and open source community that this will happen eventually.
Thanks for your criticism it encourages us to move forward.
Wow....can't I go anywhere on the internet without seeing this troll thread ? VBForums wasn't enough ?
I have no idea what you mean by that statement nor how it is in anyway related to the topic at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
Yes I have a lot of experience in the programming world and have in depth knowledge of VB Dos to .Net
VB6 was a very large project with tons of features. Trying to develop a clone for it is not a one man job and will take a lot of time basically what you are promoting is "Vapor Ware"
After almost 1 year of Windows 10 I still have a question - is VB6 going to work on future versions of Windows? MS say that Windows 10 is there forever. My current VB6 projecct works on current Windows 10. Can anybody tell that it is going to be for a long time? Or nobody knows MS plans?
No one knows for sure what is around the corner. Even MS can't be sure where they will be in the near future.
All we know is that the core of VB works under every version of Windows that has came along after VB6 and will likely continue to work for some time to come but that does not mean that projects written in VB will all continue to work some will not work right now and some would not work under anything Vista or later. It all depends on the project and what components are used in it.