That is a new word for me too! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Siddhartha
I agree. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kirants
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That is a new word for me too! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Siddhartha
I agree. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kirants
@CheRish :great post, enjoyed reading that.. :thumb:
Deniz, certainly you are getting from the wrong source about islam, as mree stated, aggression and and oppresion are strongly condemed troughout quran, i believe all the muslim's would not agree with the above, because truly thats wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniz
There is no such thing as muhammad changing the verses.. he recived the verses from time to time and spread it to the peoples around him, most of them memorized the verses. The quran became a book only during the Ali or Umar (not sure which one) rule over the islamic empire that is after muhhamad's died.
if you believe what Salman Rushdi written is true (muhammad changing verses, i don't know what else he wrote), then so be it, but just realize that those are lies about islam. I could write some thing about religion X which is absolutely opposite of what religion X try's to teach. It might sound true for some people, but is that actually what religion X is?
What i'm tryng to say is, i wouldn't dare to talk about other religion (be it judaism,cristianity, or hiduism etc etc) cause simply i'm afraid I might have a wrong understanding about them, consult the right people (not me, i'm not really that knowldgable about islam itself:p ..) and get your facts right. ;)
And I think you label islam with what is happening in the islam world currently (war terrorist war terrorist war terrorist etc etc).. but just because it is muslim world currently in this mess, it doesn't mean it is the actual islam teaching. No, there is nothing in islam teach you to do suicide bombings or car bombs or slaughtring people... you have to realize that those are desperate people fighting for their land and freedom... same thing Willliam Wallace fought for... freeeeeeeeeeedoooommmmmmmmmm (loved that movie).
So that just my two cents i guess..
:wave:
Good point, Max. I think so too. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Payne
Sorry for some wrong information..
It was during Abu Bakar's rule the the quran compiled to be a book, with Umar's suggestion.
You guys are right. I shouldn't talk about things I don't know too much about. I haven't researched Rushdi's works being authentic or not. But Muslim fundamentalists want him dead which I thought might be a clue.
Anyway, for those who didn't read the entire thread & then come in & attack my knowledge of Islam, I'll repeat this: I come from a non practising Muslim family & I have actually lived with & learnt from practising Muslims as well. Believe me they explained the basics & tried to convert me. I studied Islam at school & independantly after school as well. I have passable knowledge on the subject.
Another thing I want to point out is Christianity is NOT a religion. I am NOT religious.
Religion is man trying to work his way to God.
Christianity is God working his way to man.
I am merely responding to what God has done for us. There is a difference between that & being religious.
If you can't understand that please go back & read my first few posts & ask questions. Alternatively this is a great website that explains the basics. It will tell you "don't toy with life". Go and read why.
sorry to ressurect this one guys, but I read this link today and thought it might be interesting to some of you. or a bit of a laugh. either way ;)
personally, I think his scietific technique leaves a lot to be desired.
yeah, that was interesting. :D
This was an interesting thread. Unfortunately by the time I saw this thread it is almost dead. I agree with almost every word that Deniz said ( for the first time :eek: ). But let me make a few statements about the Bible.
Bible is a unique book. No literature ever comes any close to the Bible. Starting from the way it interlinks without any contradiction(written by almost 40 people in a span of 1800 years), the prophesies (both fulfilled and yet to come) to the latest discovery about the God's signature in the Bible. Just google "777 God's seal". Taking the number and searching the words that it made(it takes a computer to do it), it is astounding to find may phrases that are hidden, like YAHWEE, JESUS MADE SIN, etc. These are so unique that they appear in no other literature, other religious texts or what ever. The amazing fact is that taking a letter any where from the Bible completely destroys this. It is after reading that book, that I realised why God forbids to take a single letter form the book.
Just as Denis I can go any lengths to prove (from the Bible) that it is infact unique or correct. But unfortunately, I'm in the office and my materials are at home and not where I stay.
Believing God can only be done by faith not by wisdom, because we cannot fathom Him with our small insignificant brains. For instance, we think every thing in time. But God lives beyond it. God cannot be measured with time.
About the universe, from the recent issue of Reader's Digest, it says "Universe is not only queerer than you suppose, it is queerer than you can suppose."
My answer to the topic of the thread is the initial verses of this passage Psalm 19
Not so sure about the mathematics of the Bible Matthew as the earliest copies we have were written in Greek and Hebrew so which translation are you talking about?
The original ones, ie the Greek and the Hebrew ones. Old Testiment was written in Hebrew and New testimant in Greek.
I have a mother who is a very devoted christian. She raised me up in the teachings of christ very strictly. Of course, as a young child i followed them, kind of blindly. But as i grew, i began to question my believes. Of course i've never mentioned this to my mother, or she wil be so disapointed.
Anyway...i hav a question about christianity that i've been pondering on for along time.
You see, anyone who has studied/practice christianity will be accustomed to the teaching that God (the God of the christians) is all loving (he would rather have his son die than the humans). And this God wants everyone to hear about the salvation that he can offer through his son jesus. So, God sends people (missionaries etc) to every (and modern day christians actually believe every means EVERY) corner of this earth so that every soul that ever walks this planet will hear about christ and be given the choice to choose between life or death.
If u think of this only in the present context, of course u can argue that everyone would already hav the chance to hear about jesus. Now, let's go back in time say...during the time of the Tang dynasty in china (around 600 to 900 AD). During this time, many people around have not even heard of jesus. Those in the far east of Asia, the aborigines of australia, america etc (you get what i mean). If God loves the human race so much, why didn't he send people to tell everyone about christ since those times. All those people when to **** without hearing about christ first???
Seems that christianity is just like any other religion whose spread corresponded to the spread of the of the influence of its believers
Hitai
Your question is not a new one, it has been asked millions of times before and answered millions of times before.
Basically what the Bible tells us is this:
If there is God's law, there is sin. If there isn't God's law, there is no sin.
If you have heard God's forgiveness, your forgiveness is up to what you choose. The Bible stays silent on what happens to those who have not yet heard of the Gospel (God's forgiveness & grace through Jesus).
Judging by what we know from the above themes and what we know about God from the Bible we can very safely assume the following:
1) God is just and loves us and does not want even one of us to perish.
2) We are not in any place to tell God what to do or how to act, since we were not there to help Him from creation so we must trust His justice & His love for us.
So basically here is my answer: I don't know, it's God's business not mine but God is just and will take into account these people did not get to know Him.
If you wish to further discuss this theme I can cheerfully tell you about a theology forum where you can observe people delve into the above themes in more detail.
But the bottomline is this:
Let God worry about what happens to them, you worry about whats happening between you and God. ;)
Well haven't you asked this question to your mother? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitai
To your question, the bible doesn't give a direct answer. The reason is as Deniz said, it does not concerns us. What we (the believers) have to do is to spread the gospel as said in Matthew 28:19 - 20, Mark 16:15. And the bible is written so that we may believe in Christ and might be saved thru him John 20:31. What happens if we don't do our job, or there are people who have not known the gospel is upto God and not to us. That is why as I said there is no direct answers. There are lots of questions that the Bible does not answer directly such as the begining of God, life in other planet, the time when Jesus comes again etc and these falls to the category that I said above. For instance when the disciples asked Jesus about his second coming the said it is not for you to know about these things Acts 1:7.
Said all these, Bible do give hints about such questions. About your question Romans 1:18-20 says that God has revealed Himself to all mankind thru the nature that God created...and carefully read the next part so that they are without excuse. In one way or the other God reveals himself to man (that haven't heard the gospel) before they die, and if they accept Him as God and be his seekers (ie the seekers of His ways) they will not be perished. Those who do not accept Him, God call them wicked, foolish and keep reading, you can see their description that follows Romans 1:21-32 and to them the wrath of God is revealed. God will judge them and yield them to destruction. Read Revelation 14. There it says about the wine of the wrath of God!
The Bible contains a message that there is hope and that hope is Jesus Christ. John 1: 1- 14 and especially verse 12. Also read 1 John 1:7 second part, 1 John 4 and there are countless other parts. And most famous of themIn other words, first the concern should be about us then others...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by John 3:16
Deniz, Mathew... good points!
If i ask such questions to my mother i'll be taken to the church elders for exorcism :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew Joy
Realistically speaking, I`ve ask my mother before. And i got scolded for even thinking of such things. So as u see, i grew up in an environment which isn`t condusive for interlectual thinking, in terms of religious issues.
I don`t ask such questions to blindly attack christianity. I brought up such issues many times to many people. Read about it (on the net, in books etc) Of course most answer it like Deniz and Mathew Joy. And those who are believers of the christian faith usually discuss it only from the view point of christianity. All point put forward must first assume that what is written in the bible is true.
If so, we can take this analogy and apply it polythestic religions that claim itself to be the truth and all other teachings as falsehood. Like...for example Islam. Islam also claims that its god is the one true god etc etc....just like christianity. So if the god of the muslims is real, all christians are going to ****
Thus for now, i`m only sitting on the fence. Dare not forcefully believe anything as the ultimate TRUTH. Cause no matter who u ask, christians, muslims, buddhist, hindus etc...no one really knows