This is my opinion. I was refering to advertising and sales people who visit the site to determine whether or not to advertise.
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This is my opinion. I was refering to advertising and sales people who visit the site to determine whether or not to advertise.
This is my opinion. I was refering to advertising and sales people who visit the site to determine whether or not to advertise.
The bigger question is legal use by others. If I can't continue to freely use anything posted here for commercial purposes, I'll stop visiting to avoid potential legal hassles.
Again, this seems to be a gross misjudgment of the existing codeguru audience. We're not 'non-techies' or even 'hobbyists'.
I hope the legal issues are just the result of earthweb's boilerplate mumbo jumbo and that will be clarified and refined for this site. That needs to happen pretty quickly to be of much use, though.
Zafir
Can you clarify this.
** So the code bits in this site can't be used for commercial purpose, if so do we need to get the permission from EarthWeb, it seems so in the Terms & Condition notice.
** Why do we need to get permission from EarthWeb, when the author submitts his code to the public domain and if he says it can be used for any purpose.
** BTW the author gives you some permission like "nonexclusive, worldwide license to link to, reproduce, distribute, adapt, perform, display and sublicense the submitted Content", but not to restrict the use of the code which the author submitted.
Zafir i think you can do a reply to this. Please don't keep silence.
Thanks
-prabha
Are you sure about this? Here's the passage in question:
----
"SUBMISSIONS
You acknowledge and agree that, by submitting any resource, link, applet, information, content or other materials ("Content") to EarthWeb, you grant to EarthWeb a nonexclusive, worldwide license to link to, reproduce, distribute, adapt, perform, display and sublicense the submitted Content. Further, by submitting Content to EarthWeb, you acknowledge that you have the authority to grant such rights to EarthWeb. PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU RETAIN OWNERSHIP OF ANY COPYRIGHTS OF ANY CONTENT YOU SUBMIT."
----
(... yada yada yada)
What am I to make of this? For example, what is to stop the new codeguru from publishing a "best of codeguru" using the best articles and making money off it? And are they making money NOW by drawing viewers to see sponsor's ads while the viewer (attempts to) peruse interesting articles (in the presence of all the new distractions)? Is this CONSISTENT with the intent of those who posted most of the articles? You see, part of the huge uproar here (I think) is because many of those who posted articles on the old godeguru did so NOT so codeguru could make money off their back. Another question then is this: Does developer.com believe it purchased any RIGHT whatsoever to make any money whatsoever off the CONTENT of the old codeguru????
If there was going to be money involved, many of the posters would have either setup licensing arrangements or simply not posted at all. And we users who's butts were sometimes SAVED by something we learned from a posted article... in the future will we have to pay royalties to developer.com or potentially be the target for a lawsuit because what we learned is now imbedded in a commercial app? I don't want an answer like "Well, technically yes, but not in practice..." I mean, we need something legally concrete here---frank speech, not Clintonese. This is all very scary to me!! I hope it is scary to others as well. When things are acknowledged UP FRONT to be for commercial purposes and have some legal ensnarements, developers tend to take a VERY different approach to it.
About time.
So what - there's a crappy wavy line all the pages - I'm sure that it'll probably go as more people complain.
So what - the colours look bad - ditto
So what - Earthweb own the rights... yada yada yada
Sheesh! do you lot of moaners really think that Earthweb are going to track down everyone who views the pages, downloads the code and uses it in there own/work/commercial applications ? I'm sure if you change a variable name here, a class name there, no-ones going to be none the wiser - and if you checkout Zafir's latest posting - you'll see that the 'author' owns the copyright at the end of the day.
And Zafir deserves ever $ he got from the sale of CodeGuru - me thinks some people are mighty jealous ? The fact that he's staying with the site means that he still cares.
Zafir,
I believe that EarthWeb is charging to access their ITLibrary.com site, yes, i once had that experiance, but i didn't paid anything and i came out of the site.
Is such thing going to happen for codeguru.
Look at the previous posting also
Zafir,
When the author gives permission to use it for commericial purpose, how can you restrict it.
The majority of my use of this site has been commercial, and for my work. If there is any question whatsoever of the legality and jurisdiction in regards to using the resources found here, I will be forbidden to use the information by my company. As helpful as this site has been to me in the past, and as much as I respect Zafir for the incredible work he has done here, I cannot take the chance of ensnaring myself and my company in the legalspeak of EarthWeb, and I will be forced to discontinue using this resource unless the terms of use of the sample code, articles, and resources here are clarified to the satisfaction of everyone involved, including EarthWeb's lawyers, whose current silence and apparent lack of interest in this site scares me a great deal.
Good job in the past Zafir, and I am glad that you were able to make a profit from this (you certainly deserve it), but I hope that this move has not made my favorite resource useless to me.
- Heather Holland
PS: The wavy blue thing on the left makes my eyes hurt.
The question is not about who owns the code... that is not questionable in the language. The question was one of reuse - I'm sure a lot of users would like to reuse the code from the Site in commercial applications without having to worry that one day, if they have comercial success, their 'phone rings... and it's a bunch of lawyers.
Rail
------------
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://home.earthlink.net/~railro/
[email protected]
This is horrible!!! Why the change in CodeGuru? It was the the best source site on the net. I have never found any developer.com site to be worth a ****. Please go back to the original. It was easy on the eyes, fast, and easy to navigate. Now it just looks and runs like the regular developer.com crap. Take a look at ALL the responses. ALL are negative. Please go back!
After a brief look around...
1. Ghastly look and layout. The wavy margin makes me sea-sick when I scroll.
2. The old site was not fixed width. I could read a WHOLE lot of stuff on my 19" monitor. Now I have to scroll and scroll and scroll... This site DEMANDS pages that use the entire window, period. Everything is way too cramped with this format. Whitespace rules.
3. Search doesn't work
4. Virtually every other ***** and complaint listed by everyone else.
Why not just add developer[sucks].com links to the old site? It's got to be easier, and you wouldn't lose all of your visitors (which you will if things stay as they are). I tried developer[sucks].com several times over the last few months. It was a yawn inducing experience. I only hope that codeguru rubs off on developer[sucks].com and not the other way around.
I have to ask what the others are asking, "is there a CD available of the old site?" I fear that all of the excellent examples will dry up and blow away any day now. I want to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. But, it's not looking good from where I sit.
Maybe it's time for Kirk Stowell to turn codejockey.com into what codeguru was!!! Are you listening Kirk???
I'm a REALLY disappointed almost ex-user.
Someone wrote:
all of the articles that I contributed belong to ME. I was happy to share them with the user community but I'll be damned if I will have them stolen and have someone else control them.
There is no question in the legal language, that you - as the author - maintain ownership of your code, the question is merely one of reuse by visitors to this site.
BTW, to have your submissions removed, you have to rquest it in writing and mail it to EarthWeb by cerified mail... From their Terms & Conditions:
If (you) [sic] submit a resource to EarthWeb and/or you grant EarthWeb permission to display your source code and decide that you no longer want to grant EarthWeb permission to display your source code, EarthWeb will remove the resource and/or the source code from our site(s), provided, however, that you write to: "EarthWeb, 3 Park Avenue, New York, New York 10016, Attn: Developer.com Editor", by certified mail, to request that the resource and/or the source code to any applet or software resource submitted by you be removed from an EarthWeb web site. Upon receipt of such certified mail notification, EarthWeb will use its best efforts to remove such resource and/or source code from its web site(s).
Rail
Can't wait to hear see all the Lava (sand boxers) reasons... why we should all flow to L....a...........v..............a
Please separate code owned by EarthWeb from those owned by others!
Leave individual copyright notices allone!
The general copyright statement is completely unacceptable!
Looks like the pages are using the <pre> tag which causes every line to not wrap and have an almost inifinite horizontal scroll.
Atnn Zafir: Please Post a notice indicating The reasons for the change , its history, and What we should expect in the Near Future:
Please Cover:
1) WHy the changes were made?
2) When you expect the speed issue to be resolved (Currrently it takes 3 minutes for my machine on a T1 line to get to a page pointed by the hyperlink)
3) The Full Implications of the LEGAL issues associated with posting code on this site as discussed in other postings.
Thank you for your time and I understand the need to make money off this site (in fact I think it is a good idea), but ,ofcourse, if no-one visits this site, There will be no enticement to place ads.
-Brad
This is a VERY DISAPPOINTING situation. If anyone wants to take their code and pull out...respond to this email. If we get enough response, a new site will be created!
Hey people, we are just beating a dead horse here. I know that 99% of we prior users are *incredulous* about the changes, but it is clear that we are wasting our time and energy. Sure, I'm mad as heck, but developer.com is not listening, and it seems like Zafir isn't either. Not even ANY amount of superficial public relations effort to head off the rebellion. What does this say about the future?
Yeah, there are legal issues for both posters and vistors who use the code or even fragments of it. Yeah, we know that the new site is not what the old site was, nor will it ever be. The formula is gone. Let developer.com have their new codeguru site and do what they want with it. We need a NEW SITE for serious developers that realizes the best of the old codeguru formula. I would seriously offer to do it myself but I don't have the resources or knowledge to do so. No way! Is there someone out there who can do it? Please! The sooner a replacement is setup the sooner we can quit venting our communal spleen and get on with development issues.
Here's a possible (albiet temporary) solution for the legal problems.
Have the zip's of the source code on a separate site. True, the article itself could be contested, but since the code wouldn't be on codeguru, EarthWeb couldn't claim control over it.
I really hope this issue can be settled. I think that if EarthWeb has any rights to the code, then the site is dead (I'd wager that at least 3 quarters of the regular visitors use the articles for commerical apps).
I also think that many people will be reluctant to post new articles if they're just handing it over to EarthWeb rather than the community at large.
I also think it's incredibly childish and disrepectful to talk about setting up "a different codeguru" on this board. I've used codeguru since before it was codeguru, and think that Zafir definitly deserves more credit and respect for his hard work. Rather than bail at first sign of stress, we should continue to support Zafir and show EarthWeb what we want the site to be.
Ryan Schneider
NeoWorx Inc.
Makers of NeoTrace, NeoLite, and NeoSpace
I completely agree: there's need for some clarity, in particular about the legal issues everyone keeps asking about.
Messages like this are neither helpful nor in good taste. Posting it as "anonymous" emphasizes your immaturity. Please use this forum (and other CodeGuru forums) responsibly.
/ravi
If anyone is interested, there is a new site that has been established: http://www.codejock.com. I can set up the format simular to the old CodeGuru site. Please visit the new site, and give me some feedback. I am going to pull all of my articles and code from here, and step down as section manager of the ToolBar and Advanced UI sections, since I DO NOT AGREE with the NEW COPYRIGHT.
CodeJock.com will be dedicated to protecting the rights of the developer, without the commercialization that we see with this site! We will follow the format of the "Old" CodeGuru.com site.
If anyone is interested, please contact me directly, or reply to this message.
-- Kirk Stowell
Former Section Manager - Advanced UI and Toolbar
http://www.codejock.com - The new site for developers
If anyone is interested, there is a new site that has been established: http://www.codejock.com. I can set up the format simular to the old CodeGuru site. Please visit the new site, and give me some feedback. I am going to pull all of my articles and code from here, and step down as section manager of the ToolBar and Advanced UI sections, since I DO NOT AGREE with the NEW COPYRIGHT.
CodeJock.com will be dedicated to protecting the rights of the developer, without the commercialization that we see with this site! We will follow the format of the "Old" CodeGuru.com site.
If anyone is interested, please contact me directly, or reply to this message.
Kirk Stowell
Former Section Manager - Advanced UI and Toolbar
http://www.codejock.com - The new site for developers
YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!
(isn't that copyrighted now? ARRGH!)
I agreed.
The copyright of the articles(of course, and the source code) in CodeGuru are belonged to their authors. Each author, not the EarthWeb, has the right to let others share his works freely or with some limitation.
Excellent idea. Good luck!
I am very disappointed how the site has changed. I don't like it any more. I don't think i will contribute more code. Perhaps we developpers need to make another site. I don't like:
1) The wavy line. This is not a site for health care
2) The width if i use a resolution with 1000*800 pixel. Everything is now on the left half part
3) Loading banners does consume a lot of time
4) The contents and the look and feel do not reflect the same philosophie. The contents is: Highly concentrated very important information. The display is: A beginner has tried some html-elements and is very happy about all effects he has found.
5) Terrible use of colors.
6) I think this changes are not due to requests of the user
Congratulations Zafir! - You are gooing the same way as everbody goes. First a good idea. Then a very good first implementation. Success. Business people come on the scene. They kill everything. The idea is away. - Somebody other has a good idea. It is time to switch.
I am VERY disappointed. But i am not astonished.
I want a new site. I would be satisfied with a very simple interface
Hi!
1. Text of most articles is wider than my screen. I must use horisontal scroll bar to see it all. I have Windows NT 4.0 SP3,
Internet Explorer 5, resolution 1024x768, large fonts.
Example of such an article:
http://www.codeguru.com/misc/encrypt_decrypt.shtml
but there are many others.
2. I visited Russian section of the site and saw that it is
extremely outdated. I know you might not have too much time
to update the foreign languages stuff, but anyway, this is
not good :-)
3. Wavy line on left really sucks. My eyes always bump into
it when I read the text. But, maybe somebody likes it :-)
Anyway, CodeGuru remains excellent programming site.
Thank you for your work.
Ivan
I have made a backup CD from 30.6.1999. I didn't load the banners. It are around 10'000 files. But i don't know how to contribute this CD to others who are interested. I can burn some cds but not hundreds.
We should think about a new way to put code on the internet. We need a free space! Perhaps the CD is of use to start something new.
[email protected]
We now need a complete free space to contribute our code to all other developpers. When we restart we should think about how we will always remain independently to a person or a commercial organisation.
Perhaps universities can help us here. Or does somebody other has any idea how to start again and do it now right?
Perhaps we start with free html pages on a server. Everybody may alter the files and add new html pages. Somebody makes a backup from time to time an restores old files on the request of more than 5 persons. This can be controlled by a simple program monitored by a group of independent developpers.
These are just first ideas. Perhaps other have better ideas.
[email protected]
When we start to move away we need a new forum to talk to each other. Has anybody an idea? How can we tell this to all users of the old nice www.codeguru.com? Perhaps we can start a mailing list! I don't know how to do this.
[email protected]
Let all users help you to make a decision.
Sorry, i smell here also commercial interests the sooner or later. Business people do entering where they can. I want a real free space!
You can submit your source code to [email protected]. There is an open forum at the new codejock.com site that developers can use to post their ideas. I will begin work on the submission routines and guidelines, but would like some help with this if anyone is interested...
-- Kirk
Feel free to use the forum at codejock.com. This is an open forum. I will need some help and ideas inorder to set up the new site...
-- Kirk Stowell
We all made a big error when we posted our code to a person only. When we restart we have to do it better
The contents of the site is much the same from a quick look but someone has tried to tart-up the presentation. Yes the wave line sucks - it is simply an unnecessary gimmick.
More importantly in tarting up the presentation some lines are now truncated. This sort of thing never happened before.
Don't people ever learn; making things fancier than is necessary simple adds to the risk of incompatibilities. Keep it simple. Yes - present the information well, lay it out well, but don't add pretty bits for the sake of it.
It is very noticeable that the adverts now play a much more dominant role on the site.
Please continue using this site as you have, without fear of losing control of your code. We are not the Code Police. Developers have been uploading and downloading source code from developer.com for a long time, happily so.
Ok, so it's pretty deep into our Terms & Conditions statement, but we state that YOU RETAIN OWNERSHIP OF ANY COPYRIGHTS OF ANY CONTENT YOU SUBMIT.
You are only granting us the right to publish it in all the ways we normally publish things.
What caused this confusion is the opening statement in Terms & Conditions that says "Permission (which may be revoked at any time) is granted to download the material in this Site without alterations and for private and non-commercial use only." That applies to OTHER people who download your code and it is their to protect you against other people appropriating the copyright of your code. We can't grant other people the right to sell your code because we don't own it. If you want to go after people who use your code commercially, that's still your right. Or not. In practice, it's hard to police, of course.
Now that we've got that straight, welcome to all of you. We're very excited about your becoming part of the developer.com community.
Mark Schlack
Vice President, World Wide
Content
EarthWeb
Lots of you have expressed some dismay at the new look and feel of Codeguru. Let me say that developer.com's look and feel will itself be changing in the coming months. It's waiting for the development of new backend facilities that will bring a lot of new functionality to the site. But I can tell you this: the wave will go, for those of you who find it distracting.
Codeguru brings with it some solid design ideas that we will be incorporating into the new design. For example, Codeguru's discussion interface is very good and we will be looking to bring the best features of it over, if not wholesale.
As for performance issues, we will resolve these over the coming days. There are some problems due to remote ad serving, which slows down the page load, but that is going to go away. I've seen some posts about search problems, but as of this post search seems to work well. Of course, we'll monitor and fix.
You deserve the best and we'll strive to bring it to you. We believe that access to all the other resources on developer.com and our other sites will be a great boon to you as you get to know them.
Mark Schlack
Vice President, World Wide
Content
EarthWeb
Zafir,
Much as I have appreciated the CodeGuru site and your excellent work over the past years, I find that articles I posted in good faith are now covered by various restrictions that I have never agreed to. Despite your assurances, I do not agree with new terms and conditions. Nor do I believe that I would have posted code to this site had such conditions been in place at the time.
While I am not expert in the legal nicities, I am surprised that you feel able to enforce conditions that I have never agreed on material that I (or my company) hold the copyright of. Whether you believe that the developer.com conditions are benign or not is hardly the point--what gives you the right to assign such conditions on my behalf?
It seems that the steps required to remove articles from developer.com are convoluted in the extreme. I believe that the least you could do is to ensure that anyone who so requested (to you, not them) would have all contributions removed immediately. You should also add this to the FAQ, and not let it be buried in the depths of this board. I actually feel that you had no right to impose new terms on others without their consent, and am saddened you did not consider that the owners of the articles should at least be emailed to inform them.
I am very sorry to post this message as I have benefitted much from CodeGuru. However, producing and using code is my business. I (and my company) cannot afford any possible ambiguitity regarding ownership or use of production code. "Zafir says it's all OK, honest" just doesn't cut it.
Dr Robin Leatherbarrow
Erithacus Software
[email protected]
Sorry buddy, It's too late. It took you guys a week of angst ridden mass rebellion like nothing I've seen before, until anyone decided to give us a feel good message. And you still didn't give us the "plain talk" legal aspect on what we can do with *downloaded* code and what *you* will do with uploaded code and ideas. You guys *still* don't get it. This bodes badly for the future of this site. When you didn't start it right in the first place, that says something about where codeguru will go. I'm outa here and over to http://www.codejock.com. Anyone joining me?
This does not answer the question of whether or not a developer can download and use code that has been designated by the author as freely useable in commercial applications.
I think the problem is that the statement "Permission (which may be revoked at any time) is granted to download the material in this Site without alterations and for private and non-commercial use only" is far too rigid and may not actually be in line with the sentiment of the original author of the article available on your Site. It is simple for the author to add a Disclaimer as appears at http://codeguru.developer.com/advancedui/cj60lib.shtml which completely covers the author against copyright infringement and also allows for the library in question to be used in a commercial application without a) any mention of EarthWeb or b) any chance of litigation.
Regards.
Rail
------------
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://home.earthlink.net/~railro/
[email protected]
> You are only granting us the right to publish it in all the ways we normally publish things.
Sorry, but when did I grant you the right to publish anything? You have taken material from the old CodeGuru site and posted it without asking any of the copyright owners. In the process your Terms & Conditions now (apparently) apply. Did I (or any of the other contributors) agree to this? I think not....
Robin Leatherbarrow
Yes a developer can download and use code that has been designated by the author as freely useable in commercial applications.
That's what copyright is about. The copyright of the code does not transfer to Earthweb or any user simply by submitting the code. We do not put any additional restriction on the code beyond what the author has specified in the article. And, if the author chooses to restrict the use, we choose not to post since then it is not very useful.
Yes a developer can download and use code that has been designated by the author as freely useable in commercial applications.
That's what copyright is about. The copyright of the code does not transfer to Earthweb or any user simply by submitting the code. We do not put any additional restriction on the code beyond what the author has specified in the article. And, if the author chooses to restrict the use, we choose not to post since then it is not very useful.
Hi Zafir
Sorry.. I know this isn't your headache... but can we expect EarthWeb to get their lawyers to modify the wording of their Terms & Conditions to fall in line with your comments?
Best regards and wishes.
Rail
------------
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://home.earthlink.net/~railro/
[email protected]