Yeah, either God does not exist, in which case (1) is wrong, or He does, in which case (2) is wrong at least some of the time, since God is omniscient and surely He has read that sign. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
Printable View
Yeah, either God does not exist, in which case (1) is wrong, or He does, in which case (2) is wrong at least some of the time, since God is omniscient and surely He has read that sign. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
The only way a person can truly believe and be convinced that God exists is when they come to realize that the Bible itself is divine rather than human in origin. The Bible is actually a very fascinating book if you carefully study it. It's filled with lots of deep meaning.
Read Psalm 22. This definitely portrays the coming of Jesus Christ and his death on the cross.
Read about Abraham's test in Genesis 22. Isn't this a picture of God's sacrifice of his *only son* Jesus. Because of this sacrifice all nations on the earth are blessed and the birth of God's holy people are born.
Read Exodus where God commands Israel to sacrifice a Lamb and put the lamb's blood on the doorpost of their homes to prevent the angel of death to come into their homes. (This is the Jewish Passover)
In many other parts of the Bible, Israel was commanded to sacrifice spotless lambs for their sins.
Notice that Jesus is considered the "Lamb of God" and the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Is it any coincidence that Jesus Christ was crucified exactly on the Jewish Passover Day? I don't think so.
I could probably go on and on and on...
truth Audio pronunciation of "truth" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trth)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
n. pl. truths (trthz, trths)
1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3. Sincerity; integrity.
4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
5.
1. Reality; actuality.
2. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.
God exists.
You are not Him.
Which makes me wonder... If God is omniscient, he knew that people would turn away from Him and he would have to sacrifice his own son for us. So why did God created the human specie in the first place, an act that led to the murdering of Jesus. Any loving father would do exactly the oposite, i.e. anything to save his son.Quote:
Notice that Jesus is considered the "Lamb of God" and the perfect sacrifice for our sins.
Ok, here is the reason Cilu.
I will explain to you what is going on here. Yes God is omniscient, but being a perfect being he is also perfectly righteous. Since this is so this means that every single sin that has ever been committed and ever will be committed in this universe must be paid for.
So what does this mean?
The Bible says that the "Wages of sin is death". Romans 6:23
Obviously this is referring to "eternal death". Every sin from the smallest to the greatest has a consequence. The more I sin, the more wages I store up, the less I sin, the less wages I store up. Therefore the only way for God to save the human race is to carry out this exact punishment. God would have to become a perfect human substitute, a stand in for our sins. Therefore if I become a believer in Jesus Christ then it means that Jesus Christ had paid for every single sin in my life from my physical birth all the way to my physical death.
When Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross, not only did he suffer physical death, but also eternal death for every single sin for all those He had chosen to save. Let me explain a little more.
Christ suffered the true death, eternal death which was equivalent to me spending an eternity under God's wrath. How God did this, no one knows, but his suffering must have started somewhere in the Garden of Gethsemane when he was sweating large drops and when he cried out to God to let the cup pass from him. (Matthew 26:38-39) Christ was drinking the cup of God's fierce wrath. Therefore if I am a born again believer in Jesus Christ it means that there is nothing God can convict me of during the time of God's perfect judgment. I am seen as blameless and spotless because through Jesus Christ I had already passed through eternal damnation for my sins. It would be unjust of God to convict me for sins that have already been paid for.
If Christ never paid for anyones sins, none of us would be turning to Him or seeking him through our own will. We do not have the cability to turn to Christ unless God draws us to Him. John 6:44, Romans 3:10-12 This is impossible to do becase we are all spiritually dead due to sin and unless God opens our spiritual eyes we will remain blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
This is why the Bible also emphasizes that we are not saved by our works or anything we do. It is all by God's sovereign grace.
(Ephesians 2:8-9)
The reason why some people may reject God all their life could be due to the fact that their sins have not been paid for by Christ at the cross. If Christ had paid for every single sin in this universe then nobody would be going to **** and everyone would be seeking God and going to heaven. But there are some that do seek after God and some that don't. Those that do seek after God are those whom God has called and chosen. They are those whose sins have been paid for by Christ at the cross. If I am chosen by God then it means that sometime in my life I will come to an understanding of God's message and come to believe in Jesus Christ and repent of my sins. If you have a desire to seek after God then by all means do so because it means that God is drawing you to Himself. There is no one who will end up in **** and say to God "I truly tried seeking you".
Of course a loving Father would do anything to protect and save his only son. However, God demonstrates his total unfailing, unconditional love toward us through the sacrifice of his son. In so doing he reveals who He truly is. God is love and love unconditional. This is how God reveals Himself to us and how we can understand Him and His main characteristic. How can we understand who or what God is without demonstration? It's one thing to say God is love. It's another thing to demonstrate what that really means.
1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
Rigel - isn't there an implicit assumption in your statements that God is the god of Christianity and that this is somehow the 'true' god? Why should this be so? Other religions have diifferent gods. Why are theirs not as valid as yours?
I've studied the scriptures meticulously for a very long time. Out of all my studying I have come to only one conclusion and that is it cannot be that the Bible is human in origin. I am convinced that no human author is behind the writing of the scriptures. I am convinced it is absolutely divine in origin. The more I study, the more convinced I get. It is a very intelligently written book with great depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by John E
This is why I believe that the Bible can be none other but from God Himself. Therefore when the scriptures say "There is no other God but me". I'm not going to second guess that phrase.
You've obviously put many hours into this - but other scholars point to contradictions in the bible, as well as the fact that it contains many different writing styles. What can be the explanation for this? Did God deliberately put those errors in to make us think the bible was written by humans?
The essence of the scriptures remains the same. Many "apparent" contradictions can be explained when you compare scripture with scripture.
For instance the four new testament gospels each tell of a seemingly different story. But they are seen from different angles. One sees a car accident from one point of view on the ground. The other sees it from looking out the balcony of a window. The other person who is in the car accident sees it as a passenger or driver. They are all correct but seen in different ways, when you combine them you get the entire picture.
The Bible originated from Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. In order to remain an accurate translation we need to remain accurate to the original manuscripts. Throughout time some scholars may have better translated a certain phrase or verse but these scribal errors are far and few in between. The Biblical text and the message of the scriptures are preserved and remain the same just as it did many thousands of years ago.
Funny that the more I studied it, the more I understood it has nothing "devine" in it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
I'm sorry, but this does not satisfy me. We are talking about God and Jesus before the creation from Genesis. Now, there is only God, Jesus and this Holly Spirit (which looks pretty spooky to me). So who can God love at this point? Jesus and the Holly Spirit, for there is nothing else. And what does God decide to do? Create some creatures that would turn against him and for whose repent he would have to sacrifice his son, who he loved unconditional. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me at all. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
No problem. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
Rigel - I'm quite interested to find out how you arrived at your conclusions. When you said...
I don't understand this. Why can it not be so that the bible was originated by human authors? Is it too complex? Is it too informed? What aspect of the Bible convinces you that it is God's work when say, the Koran, an equally detailed and informed work, is presumably not God's doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
Careful study...Quote:
Originally Posted by John E
God speaks in parables and those parables contain deep hidden meaning. You may say "But any book can contain deep hidden meaning". Study it carefully and maybe you might understand what I'm talking about. :)
Read Psalm 22... tell me that isn't talking about the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Read Isaiah 53... tell me this isn't a reference to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Did someone insert these passages after Jesus was crucified in order to convince people that God is real?
Even if the passages were written when they are claimed to have been written, this is no proof that they weren't written by men. You might argue that they are uncannily accurate predictions (which is debatable, since they are very vague). But other men have made startlingly accurate predictions. Nostradamus is the most obvious one - but nobody claims that Nostradamus was God.
John 1:51 "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man."
Curious statement Jesus would make about Himself.
(Jesus is the son of Man - Matthew 16:13)
Until we read in the book of Genesis.
Genesis 28:12 "And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it."
Hmm... So Jesus is effectively saying He is that ladder Jacob dreamed about that leads men from earth to heaven. Jesus is the only way from earth to heaven.
And in another famous book, Sherlock Holmes said, "I cannot make bricks without clay."
Is that a reference to him being the creator of the universe? Does it even prove that he was a bricklayer?
The gospel is typically symbolically linked to water. John 4:14, Ephesians 5:26-27, Ezekiel 36:25.
Jesus refers to Himself as the bread of life. (John 6:48)
Without food and water we physically die.
Without Jesus and the gospel we will experience eternal death.
Jesus and God's Word are the very essence of life.
Hmm... interesting... God is also known as a rock.
(2 Samuel 23:3, Psalm 78:35)
Jesus the chief cornerstone. (Ephesians 2:20)
I wonder if this has anything to do with the time Moses struck the rock and water came out? Exodus 17:6.
So what is God trying to say?
Out of Christ comes the living water of the gospel whereby man may drink of it and live eternally. We will spiritually live just as Israel drank of the waters that came out of the rock Moses struck in the desert and lived physically.
But this is exactly my point.... you cannot take words and assume - simply from the mere words themselves - that they must have been written by God. Humans are perfectly capable of profound and cryptic writings. Most things that humans write can be interpreted in different ways - but that is not proof that they are the words of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
It isn't. Let's take it verse by vese.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
When you read the chapter, the first thing you should notice is that past tense is used most of the cases, thus indicating a man that lived before the recording of the events: "his visage was so marred" (52:14) and "we hid," "he was despised," "we esteemed" (53:3) and "he hath borne," "smitten of God and afflicted" (53:4) and "he was wounded," "he was bruised" (53:5) and "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted" (53:6) and "He was taken and cut off" (53:8) and "he made his grave" and "he had done no violence" (53:9).
Jesus was not exalted and extolled, but was mocked, spat, whipped and crucified. Moreover, appellative "servant" could point anyone not particularly Jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 52:13
Expression "he shall grow up" from KJV is not the proper translation, which can be found in the English Standard Version, for example. Again, the past tense, not the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:2
These verse clearly contradicts verse 52:12 were he was supposed to be "extolled and exalted". The word "grief" from "acquainted with grief" is translated from choliy (khol-ee'), Strong Hebrew #2483, which means malady, anxiety, calamity: - disease, grief, (is) sick (-ness). The real meaning of the word in the text is sickness, not grief. The Jews had no conception of a suffering Messiah, who was supposed to be a mighty ruler and defeat their enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:3
Jesus was killed my men not by God. How could God find pleasure in killing his own son?Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:4
These refer to Israel, because prophets had often designated humiliation and adversities as sickness and wounds. Here are some examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:5
Originally Posted by Isaiah 1:5-6
Originally Posted by Jeremiah 10:19
Originally Posted by Jeremiah 33:6-8
Originally Posted by Hosea 6:1
Jesus was more than just wounded, he was actually killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:5
Jesus did speak according to the New Testament:Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:7
Originally Posted by John 18:21-23
Originally Posted by Matthew 27:46
Thus Jesus did open his mouth when oppressed and even called for help.
I though Jesus died for all mankind not only for the Jewish people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:8
Jesus is thought to have been buried alone. If he was buried with the wicked in a poor tomb it would contradict another prophecy from Isaiah:Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:9
Actually the whole prophecy was inversed for Jesus, for he was killed with the wicked on the cross and buried in a sepulcher of the rich Joseph of Arimathoea. Moreover, we are told that he had done no violence, but Jesus did:Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 11:10
Originally Posted by Mark 11:15
Originally Posted by John 2:15
Jesus acted with violence in the Temple, contradicting the prophecy.
Why did God find a pleasure in afflicting his only son? This verse says that it was God's wish not Jesus' to die. Jesus had no children, but the verse says that the One shall see his seed, thus excluding Jesus from the equation. The word seed, translated from zera (zeh'-rah), Strong Hebrew #2233, means seed; figuratively fruit, plant, sowing time, posterity: - X carnally, child, fruitful, seed (-time), sowing-time. It is always used in the Old Testament for offspring, descendants, and could not be rendered to the apostles. Moreover, the prophecy says that "he shall prolong his days", thus live long, but Jesus died at the age of 33.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:10
How could Jesus divide a portion with the great? Who is greater than him? The rulers of the Earth, or the angles? He should divide the spoil with the strong? The god of the Universe takes war prey? That would fit for a leader, for a king of man, not for God. In fact that is exactly what the Jews expected, a king to save them and make them great among the nations of the Earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:12
So, doesn't seem to me a prophecy about Jesus.
Explain this:Quote:
Originally Posted by John E
Ok so what you are saying is that Jesus read the Old Testament. Is an extreme lunatic who decides to declare he is God. And tries to prove it using deep meanings and parables like these?
Did you read my previous post about how Israel had to sacrifice a Lamb and in order to prevent the angel of death from coming into their homes and destroying their first born? They had to put the blood of the lamb on the doorposts of the houses to prevent this calamity. Bear in mind God commanded Israel to sacrifice a "Lamb without blemish". This day is and has been celebrated by the Jews as the Passover.
Long before Jesus was crucified the scriptures and people like John the Baptist declare Jesus to be the "Lamb of God" that takes away the sin of the world. Jesus is also without blemish or sin.
Jesus declares Mark 14:24 "And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many"
Jesus must have been extremely intelligent to have timed his death so that he was crucified on the exact day the Jews celebrated the Passover.
Tell me now... why would anyone on earth go to the trouble of timing their death like this in this fashion? How did Jesus do it so that he can get people to crucify him on the Jewish Passover day?
Why on earth does God lead Israel out of Egypt after the Passover occurred? Hmmm... Well because God is leading Israel to the "promised land" with the leadership of Moses. When Jesus was crucified God also brings his people to the "promised land" and that is heaven itself.
Are you telling me this isn't divine?
That's exactly what I'm saying, Rigel.... none of what you've said is proof that the Bible wasn't written by man.
Instead of quoting from the Bible, give me an explanation for why those words could not have been written by humans?
Rigel, you must make the distinction between belief and proof.
I think this is proof enough for me.
:DQuote:
You want answers?
I want the truth!
You can't handle the truth!
That was said by Jack Nicholson in Men of Honor. ;)
Close... A Few Good Men :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cilu
Oh dear me, a Bible study on CG... What has the world come to... :rolleyes:
Nice work Cilu & Rigel.
Cilu, you need to study how to interpret the Bible if you want to get anything out of it.
There are 3 main points in Biblical interpretation.
1) The exegesis where we look at things like the form, the translations of the keywords, the setting (ie who was this adressed to originally, what was the social/econimic/religious status of the people it was written to etc, where does it fit in history?), the context of the verses within its own chapter, within its own book and where it all fits within Biblical Theology (the story of the Bible as a whole) and we finally look at what if any was the main point of the writing.
2) Then we explain what the verses are meant to mean to the original readers and look at similar verses, similar concepts (and their settings) and if we are to truly understand the whole point of the verses we are trying to understand we read the book of those verses several times just to get a gist of the meaning. You will need tools such as a Bible Concordance, a good Bible Dictionary and a couple of different good Bible Commentaries to do this step right.
3) Then we apply what the meaning is to todays readers, looking at the original meaning & setting & trying to see if there may be similar situations today. We also look at things like what the scripture being studied teaches us (ie does it teach us something about God, humanity, the Church etc) and we look at what the scripture leads us to do (prayer or praise).
Thats how you study scripture. There are many good books on Biblical interpretation.
Rigel:
I think I misunderstood something you said above, to me it sounded like a doctrinal error.
Jesus ultimately paid for everyones sin. And God doesn't want anyone to perish.
The rest of what you said was great, thanks for the great read. :)
can someone say something about this...
maybe this is not a right place to ask.... but I can't get any satisfied answer yet...Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke 19:26-28
//I still believe in God..just curious...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrRee
Let's look at those verses in context.
It is a parable told when Jesus was about to enter Jerusalem where he would be betrayed & killed during the Jewish festival of Passover.
It is a parable, meaning, a story to get a point across.Quote:
Luke 19:11-27 (The Parable of the Ten Minas)
11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'
14"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'
15"He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16"The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'
17" 'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'
18"The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'
19"His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'
20"Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'
24"Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'
25" 'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'
26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."
Jesus has already emphasised and re-emphasised God's coming judgement to the people before this and this is another example.
He is telling people that God will hold people accountable with what they do with the gospel they receive. Those who put it to good use will be blessed, those who keep it to themselves will be blessed less. And those who rejected God altogether will be judged. This is what the parable means.
The verses you quoted, when out of context, portray Jesus to be a dictator, a mass murderer, which is clearly not the case when you look at things in context. That's why it is important not to take things out of context.
Oops... English -> Romanian -> English translation took the toll. :blush:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
Oh yeah I know... don't even get me started. I can just go on and on about the Bible. :pQuote:
Oh dear me, a Bible study on CG... What has the world come to...
I know it sounds like a doctrinal error but it isn't.Quote:
I think I misunderstood something you said above, to me it sounded like a doctrinal error.
Jesus ultimately paid for everyones sin. And God doesn't want anyone to perish.
Every sin has a certain punishment associated with it. God is perfectly just and righteous in executing justice. Therefore if Christ paid for everyone's sin, no one can be sent into damnation. It is impossible since their sins have been paid for.
People can say "We can accept or reject salvation". If they reject salvation for what sin will God impute against them?
God would be unjust to condemn a person for a sin that has already been paid for.
God does not wish for any of his people whom he has chosen to perish. Just as God has chosen the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, so he has chosen his true spiritual nation. The nation of Israel were a small selected group of people compared to the nations around them. This is a shadow of the true nation of Israel, the body of believers. This cannot be every single human being.
Oooh a theological discussion on doctrine, I love it... :D :thumb: :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
What you said sounds suspiciously like something an LDS member would say, which of course isn't Biblical.
The sins of every man is forgiven if they have faith in Jesus.
Just like the snake in the desert during Moses' time. When Moses said lift up your eyes to the snake and you will be saved, those who did were saved, those who didn't believe Moses died. The bronze snake was there for anyone who wanted it, not just for chosen ones. In the same way Jesus has been slain as our passover lamb & so anyone who wishes can be saved from God's coming judgement. Let me back that up with a verse.
"For all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved" Romans 10:13 (or 5:8 can't remember off the top of my head).
In my opinion, Jesus was crucified so that he can open the gates of heaven to the people. I have a question, why do you think God planted that tree in the middle of paradise?? hmm..
I guess the soil might have been better in the middle of paradise... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpionking
I don't know, the Bible doesn't tell us that (as far as I know) and I don't think it matters.
Maybe the tree of "knowledge of good and evil" as it is called is just a symbolic way of speaking about "knowledge of good and evil". The first 12 chapters of Genesis are thought to have symbolic meanings by many scholars today.
LDS member? I've never heard of them.
Ok let's have a healthy theological debate. I'm going to quote from scripture as much as possible and allow the scripture to talk for itself. If I'm wrong about anything I'd be very ready to change my doctrine.
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
True anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will become saved. But no one in their own nature will do so. God needs to draw us and give us eyes to see and ears to hear so that we will understand the gospel and call upon the name of the Lord. God gets the credit for saving us and bringing us to life. Remember that before we become saved we are a spiritually dead corpse with no life. Just as God breathed into Adam and gave him physical life, God's Word must penetrate our soul to give us spiritual life.
Let's interpret scripture with scripture.
Romans 3:10-11 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."
John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
No one seeks after God because no one has the ability to do so.
God must draw us first before we start to seek after Him.
John 6:65-70 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?"
Simon Peter is convinced that Jesus is the Son of God and still wants to follow Jesus even though Jesus teaches everyone that no one can come to him unless the Father draws them. Simon Peter still believes despite this fact and despite the fact that some of Jesus disciples left and turned away from Jesus' teaching. What was Jesus' response? "Have I not chosen you?"
The reason why we may call upon God is because God has called us first. God does the choosing. If we desire to seek God then it means God chose us first. If we never have the desire to seek after God then it means God hasn't chosen us. In all circumstances God gets all the credit and glory.
Please read Romans 9 carefully.
Ah... looked up what an LDS member was. No I'm not Mormon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniz
I don't agree with Mormon doctrine at all.
I agree with your statement "isn't Biblical". ;)
I am familiar with the book of Romans.
There are more scripture which could back up your claims such as "God makes the pots & He decides which ones he will throw in the trash & which ones he will put on top of a shelf" and others you mentioned. (can't remember the verse of that one but if you've read the NT you should be aware of it).
It is common teaching for evangelists that it is God's work they are carrying out, God has already chosen his people, we only need carry the message. The parable of the sower of the seeds backs this up as well.
So I'm not disagreeing with what you said.
What I am disagreeing with is 2 points.
1) It is, in my opinion, an unhealthy approach to take by exhalting ourselves because 'God chose us' when evangelising and so such doctrinal points can be left to later discussions after one becomes a Christian. It may also be easy for an unbeliever to not bother looking into Christianity because 'he probably isn't chosen anyway'.
2) Jesus paid for the sin of mankind and so we are forgiven if we put our faith in this very fact, no where in the Bible does it say He only paid for the sin of some people & others were not paid for. Their sins will be held accountable because they did not put their trust in Jesus even though He laid down His life for them.
Not trying to be a smart-alec here. Correct me if I'm wrong. :)
Yes, it is unhealthy to exhalt ourselves in any way shape or form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniz
The mark of a Christian is a life of humility not pride. When explaining deep doctrine I have to dive into these subjects but please forgive me in case I have come across as arrogant. My intentions were never to exhalt myself as a "chosen one". None of us deserve to go to heaven and we each deserve to pay for our own sins.
Secondly, yes these are topics that are meat and not milk. However, when explaining the cross I can't better explain it but going into these topics to show God's hand at work and his plan. In my walk I never fully understood the cross until I realized the true payment Jesus had to make for our sins. After I learned this I learned to appreciate how much Jesus loves each one of us.
I agree, with your second statement as well. Anyone that puts their faith and trust in Jesus Christ and repents of their sins will be saved.
We don't know whom God has chosen and it's none of our business.
The opportunity of salvation is extended to every single human being.
John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
So we agree then. :)
:thumb:
Yes we are in agreement! :)
God exists...
The scriptures are true...
Amen
well, I'm certainly convinced! :rolleyes: ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeb
Hang on, let me bring out a 4,5 kg block letter hard cover Bible to Bible bash you until you are convinced Zeb... :p
Hey - it works for the catholic church! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Deniz
Please don't get me started. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeb
I've just received this email:
Quote:
I think the crucial question is not why God doesn't reveal himself to us; he may simply be too busy, creating new universes or something. Rather, why didn't he make his existence obvious from his creations? For example, he could easily have signed his creatures so that we somewhere on the animal would find something like:
Copyright © The Sixth Day, God. This animal is commanded to be fruitful and multiply. It may do so freely, provided that this copyright notice is included.
But seriously, it is inconceivable to me that a God could have played any significant role in the creation of the universe without leaving unmistakable evidence of his existence.
The creation of this universe itself is evidence and bears evidence that God exists. No man is without excuse.Quote:
Romans 1:18-20 "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
On a lighter note....
Q) What do you get if you cross an insomniac, an agnostic and a dyslexic?
A) Someone who stays awake all night wondering if there really is a dog.
Cute... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by John E
ahh... please see my reply in the jokes thread :DQuote:
Originally Posted by John E
You assume of course that the universe was "created" and then take the Judeo-Christaian God as the only conclusion, when there are an infinity of other possibilities. There is no evidence for any supernatural intercention in the Universe, and even if there were, again there are an infinity of possibilities other than the claims in the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel
Did you read the entire thread and particularly all my previous posts before this one? If so please come up with a reasonable explanation and I would be willing to listen to what you have to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by JernauGurgeh
EDIT:
Start over at post #152