God and religion

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Originally Posted by Rigel

Did you read the entire thread and particularly all my previous posts before this one? If so please come up with a reasonable explanation and I would be willing to listen to what you have to say.

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Did you? How are bible quotes and disbelief for big bang theory/evolution/whatever proof of god? In my mind, god is not a reasonable explanation, and the existance of the universe is not conclusive evidence for the existence of god.

on another, semi-related note
There was a quote from one of the school teachers involved in the major evolution/"intelligent design" (the biggest crock I've ever heard of - I far prefer religeous leaders talking about creationism then supposed scientists talking this rubbish, but, I digress) case that is going on in the US at the moment. He was talking about someone who had studied evolution at college, and referred to this person as being "brainwashed". Can someone please explain how someone who believes evolution theory has been brainwashed and someone who believes in a specific god hasn't?

For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about with the court case, I recommend looking up some news sites and reading into it. It is very interesting stuff.

No need to get upset Zeb. If you want to believe in the evolution theory go right ahead. If you want to believe any other God or religion or whatever go right ahead. The posts I had made shouldn't stop you or upset you.

I've just stated reasons why I believe in what I believe in.
That's all and nothing more.

Look, I'm not here to bash on what people believe in. When people question why I believe in what I believe I let them know and I tell them why I believe in the God of the Bible. I said go back to #152, because there are some questions I have posed. Now if for some reason I have misunderstood something, or am wrong about something then let me know and I will rethink what I believe in. Are the questions I posed about Christ and the Bible not legitimate questions? They are, and if for some reason they are not, you can let me know.

The "evidence" I have presented is "evidence" for me to believe.
It is why I personally believe in the scriptures. There are many more examples I can give, also there are also some personal experiences which have led me also to believe that God is real.

You can have your beliefs, I can have mine.
If you want to discuss your beliefs and why you believe in what you believe go right ahead. I'm not going to stop you.

But for now let's just have a discussion without getting upset with one another. K? :)

(Hmm... I'm wondering how many enemies I have made by now? Please still answer my C++ questions in the forums. :p )

Who said anything about Christians being against the evolution theory?

THe fact is the first 12 chapters of the book of Genesis are laced with imagry.

If a 'fundamentalist' Christian is telling you that the world was definitely created in 6 24 hour periods and that Noah had dinosaurs on his ark is not quoting from the Bible. The 6 day theories are a hot topic in Christian theological debate. The theology subjects I'm studying steer well clear of such controversy which is proof enough that we don't know.

The bottomline is, if there is a creator of the universe then there must be a meaning to our existence. And would a creator not be able to step in and reveal himself?

Man has made up all kinds of God's and that is the truth, however none are really accountable. It is always 'one man' had a revelation with no one to back it up.

The only ones accountable are Judaism, Christianity & Mormonism because it can be proved by many people and mormonism has been disproved by genetics and common sense.

If you dismiss things without looking further into them you may be gambling the biggest thing you have - your life. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Rigel

No need to get upset Zeb....

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Ahh, the joys of forums! I'm not getting upset, and I'm not attacking - I thought you were attacking jernau! ;) I think he made a valid point, and your reply appeared to be perhaps a bit more aggressive then it was intended.

and deniz - sorry, again, misunderstanding here. the second paragraph is an unrelated note that I found interesting, not truly intended to be taken in context with the first... I'll edit it.

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Originally Posted by Deniz

Man has made up all kinds of God's and that is the truth, however none are really accountable. It is always 'one man' had a revelation with no one to back it up.

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there is always Free Choice for human kind...if they chooose to believe in 'one man' revelation, that's their choice...but now, for me(not intended to say that I'm right here), Free Will is for God only...but we only have Free Choice...what God wills can always happen, but what we choose may or may not happen.....

we'll be judge based on our intention, not on the outcome...
(of course, Atheist will not believe this...but I'm only talking from God believers' point of view...specifically, from my point of view :))

Don't think too hard children, you'll get wrinkles.

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Originally Posted by Deniz

Don't think too hard children, you'll get wrinkles.

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like all children does, I tried to have some wrinkles:D...

Two important points have still not been answered....

1) Of all the wondrous things that God created in his universe, why would he pick on man alone and demand that only man should worship him? If worship is important to God, why did he not give all his creations the ability to worship?

2) I put forward (way back) what I believe is a very plausible theory for why a being such as primitive man, in the early stages of development, would inevitably come to believe in the existence of God, This would happen regardless of whether or not God actually existed. Civilisations all across the ancient world invented some kind of deity (or deities) to worship. And yet for the most part, these deities were completely different beings. Humans "received" stories about God which are supposedly divine truths - and yet the stories contradict each other. And some civilisations had multiple gods when the idea of multiple gods is anathama to other civilisations. Why are there so many fundamental contradictions if there was genuinely only one God who created all these people and who insisted they all worship him? There is overwhelming evidence that God is entirely an invention of man. On the other hand, there is no evidence (IMHO) that man is an invention of God. Many people may believe he is - but people used to believe that the world was flat. People used to believe that the world was the centre of the universe - and that illnesses were caused by having too much blood. At one time, these were all strongly held beliefs and yet all were false. Stongly held beliefs - unfortunately - do not count as proof.

The fact that there are so many religions, so many views about a god or gods, can be a good argument against god.

Assuming there is a god that created the universe, the earth and life on it, including us, humans, why would this God pick up just a single nation (or just several) to reveal himself to, to demand worshiping? If we all are his children, as the Bible and AFAIK the Quran say and probably other sacre text, why does he let as fight against each other, why doesn't he reveal himself to all of us so that we know he exists and there is only one God, a true God (not necesarly as viewed by Christians, Jews, Muslims or others)? Why does he let us labeling eachother as non-believers, why does he let us fight in his name (whether his name is Yehowah, Allah, Brahma, Shiva, or anything else)? It doesn't make too much sense to me. Actually at all. I don't know what such a god has to gain from this.

The fact that so many places around the globe god is portraited different (and I'm not refering to physical traits) is, IMO, a clear indication that God is man-made. Nietzsche asked "Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?" I believe the later. As he, Nietzsche, put it, "God is dead: but considering the state Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown."

Some interesting links, IMO:

http://www.livescience.com/othernews..._ID_cases.html

http://www.livescience.com/othernews...win_trial.html

Top 10 Intelligent Designs

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Originally Posted by John E

Two important points have still not been answered....

1) Of all the wondrous things that God created in his universe, why would he pick on man alone and demand that only man should worship him? If worship is important to God, why did he not give all his creations the ability to worship?

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The short answer is because this is what God designed us and had commanded us to do.

Perhaps God desires worship from mankind because of the different relationship we have with God than with the rest of the creations in this universe. God created man in his own image and since this is the case we have a very special and unique relationship with God that no other creature has. We have a relationship with God like a husband and a wife have a relationship in marriage. This is why frequently throughout the scriptures God refers to the church as "His Bride". You will also see this in the book of revelation as well and throughout other books also in the Old Testament. Worshipping another god or anything else is equivalent to a wife straying and having an affair. Which is why when Israel worshipped other gods, the Lord was very upset and likened them to a prostitute.

There are many truths about marriage that reflect our relationship with God.

If any of us are married and love our wives we want to do our best to protect the relationship we have with them. Perhaps worship is a way that God protects our relationship we have with Him. God loves us and doesn't want our relationship with Him to be tainted or shattered.

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Exodus 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:"

2 Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Ephesians 5:31-32
"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

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Originally Posted by John E

Two important points have still not been answered....

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I'm not trying to prove something here...just giving a thought..and add some more wrinkles:D...

1) as far as I concern, not just man, but also all other creations must worship Him...because we as human have mind and lust, we're subject to choose whether to worship Him or not...

God is All-knowing...He already know who'll believe in Him and who'll not...but, if He is All-Knowing all along, why He didn't just put everything in their respective places from the very beginning?(usually, this question will be asked)..but the 'Eternal Fire' dwellers will complain that they didn't have a chance to prove that they didn't belong there if He does so...life is just a mere test...

2) primitive man(as what everyone like to call them) had been given revelation from the God via prophets...as why the religions very contradict from one another, people choose to confuse themselves...they start to add and change the original revelation...instead of worshiping God, they tend to worship their religion...

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Originally Posted by cilu

Assuming there is a god that created the universe, the earth and life on it, including us, humans, why would this God pick up just a single nation (or just several) to reveal himself to, to demand worshiping?

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God had revealed Himself to all nations...some nations mentioned in the Sacret Books just for us to take the examples...if every single nations will be stated in the text, then you'll be spending most of your life just to read the history of all nations...

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why does he let as fight against each other, why doesn't he reveal himself to all of us so that we know he exists and there is only one God,

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the revelation from Him is clear via His prophets...if He revealed Himself(literally), do we gonna believe that?...if prophets that can perform miracles also been deceived by their own people, do you gonna think what I think...it just the matter of Free Choice...

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The fact that so many places around the globe god is portraited different (and I'm not refering to physical traits)

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I don't think it's different...All-Knowing, Most Powerful, etc are all the same...the only different is with God's name(doesn't matter, it just a name) and the number of God/Gods...

//feeling strange inside...

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Originally Posted by cilu

If we all are his children, as the Bible and AFAIK the Quran say and probably other sacre text, why does he let as fight against each other, why doesn't he reveal himself to all of us so that we know he exists and there is only one God, a true God (not necesarly as viewed by Christians, Jews, Muslims or others)? Why does he let us labeling eachother as non-believers, why does he let us fight in his name (whether his name is Yehowah, Allah, Brahma, Shiva, or anything else)? It doesn't make too much sense to me. Actually at all. I don't know what such a god has to gain from this.

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Here is my question for you Cilu.
Let's say hypothetically speaking that God did do this and He revealed Himself to all of us in clear plain daylight so that there is absolutely no question of all about his deity or existence, would you still want to worship Him? Would you desire to love Him and carry on a relationship with Him? Would you desire to follow and walk with Him every day?

In case anyone might be interested I thought I'd post some links to some very good faithful teachers of scripture. I have found that these two organizations are very faithful with the Word of God. Sometimes it can be very hard to find good sound Biblical teaching in today's world.

Christian Research Institute
Hank Hanegraaff
www.equip.org

Ligonier Ministries
R.C. Sproul
www.ligonier.org

There are of course several countless other pastors/organizations/churches around the world that teach sound doctrine, but just thought I'd post a few of them I'm very familiar with here.

I consider R.C. Sproul one of finest theological scholars in Christianity today. Some of his work are true gems.

God wants to have a relationship with us. He wants us to understand and come to a knowledge of Him and His ways. He wants to fellowship with us. We are not going to truly find God unless we start seeking after Him. If we constantly reject Him in our lives He will never reveal Himself to us. Why should He reveal Himself to us if we keep turning away from Him?

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Jeremiah 29:13
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me withall your heart."

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Honest... you will find God if you seek after Him.
God is accessible to any one of us if we will just look to Him and come to Him with a searching heart. I know there are lots of people that have no idea why I can be so dogmatic about the scriptures. To many I must seem very narrow minded/brainwashed, but I'm telling you that God is very very real. From personal experience and from studying the scriptures I know without a doubt that God exists and His Word is true.

Anyone else can also find Him as well. Why not pray to Him and ask Him to reveal Himself to you? Why not start searching for Him instead of rejecting Him?

It's not too late to search for God yet.
But that door of opportunity exists only for a short time.

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Originally Posted by Rigel

We are not going to truly find God unless we start seeking after Him. If we constantly reject Him in our lives He will never reveal Himself to us. Why should He reveal Himself to us if we keep turning away from Him?

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he sounds like a bit of a snob to me ;)

[back on a serious note...]
My question to you is - why should we look to him when he keeps turning his back on us? This year alone is enough evidence that this is the case - tsunami, hurricane, war... I could go on.

[and back to the light side again - no Cilu, not that light side ;)]
And why do we use capital "H" when referring to him? Last time I looked, "he" was not a proper noun ;)

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Originally Posted by Zeb

My question to you is - why should we look to him when he keeps turning his back on us? This year alone is enough evidence that this is the case - tsunami, hurricane, war... I could go on.

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Um, now in all fairness... if you are so convinced that he doesn't exist then I hardly think you can get upset if he doesn't do things the way you want them done!! Although I guess this is kind of a chicken and the egg thing... i.e. who should make the first move.

But that said, bad things do happen to good people. What you want to define as good is relative... but for purposes of this debate consider that bad things happen to christians... Now that I would have thought is a far more interesting question. Heck in the beginnings of the christian church, one could almost say nothing BUT bad things happened to christians.

Right now I am going to bed... so I'm not going into it now... I'm just not up to it. Besides I am sure some one else is more qualified to answer it here. I'll check back later.

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Originally Posted by Zeb

And why do we use capital "H" when referring to him? Last time I looked, "he" was not a proper noun ;)

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As far as I know (I may be wroung) the capitalisation is simply traditionally used as a sign of respect. But, the capitalisation of God and Lord is because they (the simple nouns "god" and "lord") are being used as proper nouns... so that has a litterary basis.

Oh yeah... I got one other question I wanted to ask...

Seriously, a question meant to be answered.
What would it take for you to believe? Obviously supposing there is a God.
Some miracle? God in person? Booming voice for the heavens? A heart to heart chat with the big guy himself? Some apocoliptic event (rivers and seas boiling / fire and brimstone / dogs and cats living peacefully together... sorry bad Ghostbusters quote... sort of)?

I'm just curious.

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Originally Posted by Rigel

Honest... you will find God if you seek after Him.
God is accessible to any one of us if we will just look to Him and come to Him with a searching heart. I know there are lots of people that have no idea why I can be so dogmatic about the scriptures. To many I must seem very narrow minded/brainwashed, but I'm telling you that God is very very real. From personal experience and from studying the scriptures I know without a doubt that God exists and His Word is true.

Anyone else can also find Him as well. Why not pray to Him and ask Him to reveal Himself to you? Why not start searching for Him instead of rejecting Him?

It's not too late to search for God yet.
But that door of opportunity exists only for a short time.

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I can testify to the %100 truthfullness of that post.

Many of you knew me since I first joined this forum and I wasn't a Christian. When you search for God & pray in His Son's name miracles happen. But you need to let go of your pride & understand who you are praying to. When you pray you are speaking to the creator of the universe.

Can you personally speak to your countries prime minister? Probably not. Can you reach the most powerful man on earth, the president of the USA? Probably not. But I tell you, you CAN speak directly to the creator of the Heavens & Earth & He is willing to listen to you and genuinely interested in each and every one of us.

Leave the doubts aside, approach Him with respect & a genuine searching heart, and you will see great miracles. Yes Cilu, even you can see things which your scientific mind can not explain away.

Trust me the answers to all the questions above have been asked and answered many times before. The state of the world today is not God's fault, it is mans fault and mans love of sin. God created a perfect world but man chose to sin. This is a fallen world but the good news is you don't have to go down with it.

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Originally Posted by Pinky98

What would it take for you to believe?

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Tangible proof. It's not hard. Faith is not enough for me.

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Originally Posted by Pinky98

Oh yeah... I got one other question I wanted to ask...

Seriously, a question meant to be answered.
What would it take for you to believe? Obviously supposing there is a God.
Some miracle? God in person? Booming voice for the heavens? A heart to heart chat with the big guy himself? Some apocoliptic event (rivers and seas boiling / fire and brimstone / dogs and cats living peacefully together... sorry bad Ghostbusters quote... sort of)?

I'm just curious.

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I was a stubborn one so it took me some divine signs. It is different for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Zeb

Tangible proof. It's not hard. Faith is not enough for me.

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I'm the same. I took nothing on blind faith untill I knew I wasn't speaking to thin air.

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Originally Posted by Deniz

Trust me the answers to all the questions above have been asked and answered many times before. The state of the world today is not God's fault, it is mans fault and mans love of sin. God created a perfect world but man chose to sin. This is a fallen world but the good news is you don't have to go down with it.

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Exactly...
The entire universe has been tainted with sin. Because of this we have all these problems. We have wars, we have violence and wickedness in its various forms. But God will one day balance the books. One day when God creates the new heavens and the new earth everything will be perfect. But until that time happens we are living in a world and universe that has been corrupted with sin.
Nothing will ever be perfect in this universe.


True story... I'm not exagerrating anything here.
One time back when I was in college I took a temp job working for an apartment complex. I was working with another temp guy who was a substitute teacher. He seemed very depressed and I could tell on the look on his face that he wasn't a happy person. One morning I decided to share with him the gospel message. I don't know why or how I thought of the idea, I just felt like I should share with him the good news of Jesus Christ. We sat down and chatted as usual on the first floor of the complex. I was looking for an open door to share with him the Bible and he told me he took a religion class back when he was in college. I used that as a spring board to share with him the scriptures and it's message. We had talked for about 15 minutes or so and he obviously rejected what I had to say about the scriptures. We got up to go and start our work. He took the right hallway and I went straight forward. Later on when I come back to the buckets I see a wet Bible track laid out on one of the buckets with the bold words "Are you ready to meet God?". The subsitute teacher found this Bible track as he was mopping the floors.

We went and sat down to take a break inside the laundry room and I told him "I think God is trying to tell you something". We then got into another debate about the scriptures for quite a while. He never agreed with what I had to say but I'm sure God was drawing Him. I don't know the outcome but I'm sure that a seed had been planted within his heart.
What is the likelihood that such an incident could occur in such fashion? It's highly unlikely.

God is real and at times God works in mysterious ways.
There is a God and He exists.

Spooky story Rigel.

I have a few even spookier stories that happened to me but I'll spare you all. ;)

Plus I wouldn't want people thinking I'm crazy or I'm the biggest liar or whatever. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Zeb

[back on a serious note...]
My question to you is - why should we look to him when he keeps turning his back on us? This year alone is enough evidence that this is the case - tsunami, hurricane, war... I could go on.

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it's the other way round...we're the one that always turn our back on Him....see how we treat this world(including the erathlings)....

as for the tsunami, hurricane, I could go on....that was just a test...how we take that, that'll reflect our belief....

war...that's because human choose to war...even in the remote place where no one heard aboud God, they''ll fight each other...because they choose to fight...

again, it's my guess after some readings...don't blame me if I said it wrong:p...I'm not a cleric;)...

EDIT: i'm not saying God was selective to reveal Himself....if the man in the remote place ask for Him sincerely, He surely will answer...

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Originally Posted by mrRee

as for the tsunami, hurricane, I could go on....that was just a test...how we take that, that'll reflect our belief....

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When God created the earth & gave man & woman dominion over it, He created everything to be good in perfect working order in perfect harmony.

It is revealed in allegorical terms the state of the world is caused by human sin.

God is cut off from people because of sin. (Jesus later fixed this)
People are cut off from each other because of sin. (This can be fixed if we live according to God's will)
The world is no longer the way it was created because of sin. (This will be fixed in the new creation as promised by God)

As for God testing us with hurricanes etc there is no Biblical evidence to this. I personally think seeing a hurricane wipe out entire villages would be absolutely devastating to watch from God's perspective. As for those who died, it is up to God what He will do with them so don't think too much about how God should judge them... You'll get wrinkles. :p

Worry about yourself & God instead, where do you stand? ;)

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Originally Posted by Deniz

When God created the earth & gave man & woman dominion over it, He created everything to be good in perfect working order in perfect harmony.

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so, why the volcanos erupted?:p...sweeping all inhabitants on its path(trees, dinos and all that)...this had occured even before man domination....not arguing, just looking for an asnwer....

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Worry about yourself & God instead, where do you stand? ;)

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I stand for Antartican:D....
ok...I'm trying here to make a better relation with God nowadays....but I think it's not good enough....but I'm still trying;).....

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Originally Posted by mrRee

so, why the volcanos erupted?:p...sweeping all inhabitants on its path(trees, dinos and all that)...this had occured even before man domination....not arguing, just looking for an asnwer....

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That is part of creation, IMHO but creation theory is a point of debate amongst Christian scholars.

The point is, God created the world in a way that the earth was to be subdued by man. But after the curse of sin things changed a bit.

Genesis 3:17-19
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.

18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.

19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

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Originally Posted by mrRee

I stand for Antartican:D....
ok...I'm trying here to make a better relation with God nowadays....but I think it's not good enough....but I'm still trying;).....

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You will never be good enough for God. No one can

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

The way the world is going everyone will end up eternally cut off from God but God has provided a way for us to inherit eternal life.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God didn't wait for us to be good to make us His children, He loves us just the way we are & wants us to live in a relationship with him.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

God has made this promise to us, that if we confess with our mouth that Jesus is the Son of God and believe he was raised from the dead (and there are very good reasons to believe so) we will inherit eternal life & live with God in His new creation void of sin.

Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

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Originally Posted by Deniz

As for God testing us with hurricanes etc there is no Biblical evidence to this.

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This can be a debatable topic but I'd tend to agree with what MrRee said. Take a look at the book of Job where God allowed things to happen to Job. Yet throughout Job's turmoil he never sinned and cursed God. God did reward Job in the end so that Job had twice as much as he had before.

Sometimes the harsh circumstances of life can bring out the best and worst in human nature. It can be used to help us and strengthen us in many ways. It helps build character, perseverence and for Christians it helps us to depend upon God's strength and helps us to learn to trust on Him.

However, despite what I have said what did Jesus say?

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Luke 13:1-5 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

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Regardless of natural disasters and calamities unless we repent we too will likewise perish. And when Jesus talks about perishing he's not talking about perishing through a natural disaster!

Repentence means to turn away from our sins and it is a very large part of our Christian walk.

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Colossians 2:11 "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,"

Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

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True circumcision is one that occurs within our very hearts. It means to cleanse ourselves from our sinful behavior and our sinful ways. We need to cleanse our thoughts and our actions. This is the very nature of repentence.

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Genesis 17:11-14 "and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant. 13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”

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Repentence is the very evidence that we have become a born again believer in Jesus Christ. Whoever was not circumcised was cut off from Israel. Likewise whoever is not circumcised in their hearts will be cut off from the Israel of God, the body of Christ.

We need to turn away from our sins and put the deeds of our sinful nature to death.

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Originally Posted by MrRee

I stand for Antartican....
ok...I'm trying here to make a better relation with God nowadays....but I think it's not good enough....but I'm still trying.....

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Keep on going! Let me encourage you to keep reading the scriptures and keep searching for God. You may feel it's not good enough but God knows you are trying. I will keep you in prayer today.

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Originally Posted by Rigel

This can be a debatable topic but I'd tend to agree with what MrRee said. Take a look at the book of Job where God allowed things to happen to Job. Yet throughout Job's turmoil he never sinned and cursed God. God did reward Job in the end so that Job had twice as much as he had before.

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We don't know if Job was a real story or an extended psalm but again, we are delving into the raw meat. The fact is we don't know who is watching or what is going on behind the scenes. But it is also important to point out that God isn't a God who sits on a high throne pointing a finger here & pointing a finger there sending hurricanes & tsunamis.

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John 9:1-3
1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

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Things don't always happen as a result of sin nor do they always happen to test us. Sometimes it is purely human sin related reasons and other times it's just the result of living in a fallen world.

Justice is near, God's judgement is coming. Question is, will you be saved from that judgement or will you join the rest of the world in rebellion against God and ultimately get what's coming your way? ;)

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Originally Posted by Deniz

You will never be good enough for God. No one can

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of course I aware of that...thanks for reminding me... ;)
what I meant was, maybe I'm not doing good enough in repentance...

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I will keep you in prayer today.

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thanks brother Rigel...that'll means a lot to me :) ...

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Justice is near, God's judgement is coming. Question is, will you be saved from that judgement or will you join the rest of the world in rebellion against God and ultimately get what's coming your way? ;)

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Yes, it is very very near. One day God will balance the books of time.
All the evil sinful things of the world will be judged. Every action thought and deed will be judged by our Holy God. There is nothing covered that will not be revealed and hidden that shall not be made known. - Luke 12:2

Our eternal destination is sealed the moment we die or Christ returns.
After that it is too late and there no longer exists the opportunity to get into the kingdom of God.

There is no mercy in eternal damnation. It is everlasting destruction and torment with no escape.

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Originally Posted by mrRee

of course I aware of that...thanks for reminding me... ;)
what I meant was, maybe I'm not doing good enough in repentance...

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I think you're heart is in the right place.

I don't think there is a single Christian in the world who thinks "I'm doing great, I'm a great Christian".

Even the apostle Paul often mentioned in his letters what a sinful man he was at heart. Did this mean Paul was a bad man? No, it meant that he was aware of his sinful side. All of us have a sinful side, its a fact of life.

Recognising our sinful desires is the first step, turning our back on the sinful desires is the next step. Ask Jesus for help, trust me he will help you change, he is in the business of changing people. None of us can become the sort of person God wants us to be on our own. Prayer is the vital key. Reading the Bible is also important but the Bible can be a trap if you try to chew on the meat before growing with the milk. Debatable doctrinal points are a stumbling block for many. For example, reading into the book of Revelation or the first 12 chapters of the book of Genesis is probably not the best place to start reading. A better option would be reading the 4 Gospels and then something along the lines of Ephesians and maybe even Romans after that if you're up for it.

Reading some good books, finding a good Bible teaching Church where you can find someone to help you grow, these are also important.

Ultimately its up to you.

PS: Rigel you are right, we only get the one shot. Another thing I hear is a 'planned repentance' i.e. planning to repent on your death bed or when we get older is not a good idea (in my opinion) because who's to say our pride & arrogance won't stop us at that crucial moment?

thanks for your advice, Deniz...

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Originally Posted by mrRee

thanks for your advice, Deniz...

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You're welcome. That'll be $129.95 you can paypal direct to me. :p


/just kidding :p

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Originally Posted by Deniz

You're welcome. That'll be $129.95 you can paypal direct to me. :p


/just kidding :p

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hey, you said that willl be 70% plus 30% less for paypal card holder:p

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Originally Posted by mrRee

hey, you said that willl be 70% plus 30% less for paypal card holder:p

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MrRee

here are the usual prices I charge for services from "Advise from Deniz Inc."

Relationship Advice.............................$229.95
Religious Advice..................................$129.95
Medical Advice.....................................$129.95 + Signed legal rights waiver forms
Parenting Advice..................................$59.95
Legal Advice.........................................$259.95

You won't beat those prices ANYWHERE!


We have other services but these are the most popular ones, the prices are not negotiable. :p

/not kidding, I want my money. :mad:

//yea ok I'm kidding :p

I'm confused Deniz - are you a scientologist or a christian? :p

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Originally Posted by Zeb

I'm confused Deniz - are you a scientologist or a christian? :p

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I'm a Christian with a sense of humour Zeb.

That question falls under "Religious Advice", $129.95. I'll PM you my paypal account details. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deniz

I think you're heart is in the right place.

I don't think there is a single Christian in the world who thinks "I'm doing great, I'm a great Christian".
Even the apostle Paul often mentioned in his letters what a sinful man he was at heart. Did this mean Paul was a bad man? No, it meant that he was aware of his sinful side. All of us have a sinful side, its a fact of life. Recognising our sinful desires is the first step, turning our back on the sinful desires is the next step. Ask Jesus for help, trust me he will help you change, he is in the business of changing people. None of us can become the sort of person God wants us to be on our own. Prayer is the vital key. Reading the Bible is also important but the Bible can be a trap if you try to chew on the meat before growing with the milk. Debatable doctrinal points are a stumbling block for many. For example, reading into the book of Revelation or the first 12 chapters of the book of Genesis is probably not the best place to start reading. A better option would be reading the 4 Gospels and then something along the lines of Ephesians and maybe even Romans after that if you're up for it.

Reading some good books, finding a good Bible teaching Church where you can find someone to help you grow, these are also important.

Ultimately its up to you.

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I agree with everything Deniz said in this post.

Keep on going MrRee. I have kept you in prayer yesterday.
It is very important to find a strong Bible teaching church that is faithful to the teaching of God's Word. I don't know about you guys but here in the U.S. there are a tremendous amount of flourshing churches that don't teach sound doctrine. I've visited some churches that teach "pop" psychology and the gospel is no longer heard. You need to find a healthy well balanced church where the word of God is taught faithfully. God's Word should be the main focal point of what the church stands for and preaches.

Without exposure to the gospel it is impossible to build faith since faith directly comes from God's Word. "Faith comes by hearing , and hearing by the word of God" - Romans 10:17

Start reading and getting as much exposure as you can to the scriptures. Not only will it increase your faith, it will also aid you in distinguishing scriptural versus non scriptural teaching. As Deniz had pointed out there are many parts of the Bible that you won't understand right away unless you understand another passage somewhere else. I'd also recommend to read the 4 gospels first. In many aspects the Bible is like a puzzle, once you are familiar with the pieces you begin to put the pieces together to get the entire view. This is how I personally have come to realize that the scriptures are divine rather than human in origin. I believe that if you continually seek after God through reading and studying the scriptures He will reveal Himself to you and you will understand that the Bible is divine in origin. After discovering the power of God through the scriptures I have never doubted in His existence. I never had the need for a sign or a wonder because the Bible is where I see God.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deniz

PS: Rigel you are right, we only get the one shot. Another thing I hear is a 'planned repentance' i.e. planning to repent on your death bed or when

we get older is not a good idea (in my opinion) because who's to say our pride & arrogance won't stop us at that crucial moment?

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Yes I agree and not only that but none of us have any guarantee that we will live until next year, next month, or even tomorrow.

One day we will all stand before God on that great eternal day. Because God is good and righteous he doesn't wink at sin.
Every sin and evil from the smallest to the greatest will be held accountable. God is so perfect in His divine justice that none of us will escape unless we

have the Lord Jesus Christ. Each of us has sin and this is the very reason why Jesus Christ came. Jesus Christ is shielding us from His divine justice and He did that by paying for each one of our sins at the cross.

There is no such thing as being too deep into sin that God will not want you. He loves us and He came for all of us regardless of our sins and how we have lived our lives. Regardless of whether or not we are the worse of sinners we each have a chance at salvation. But we must seek Him and we must seek His grace and mercy and confess and turn away from our sins.

It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
It is the most wonderful thing to make peace with God. We look forward to our promised land, the new heavens and the new earth God will one day create where there will be no more death or sorrow anymore. It will be a glorious place where we will see God face to face and have fellowship with Him forevermore.

If anyone is reading this post and thinks this is a foolish myth you will know one day... believe me.
You may not understand now but you will understand later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deniz

I'm a Christian with a sense of humour Zeb.

That question falls under "Religious Advice", $129.95. I'll PM you my paypal account details. :p

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Hey... you need to split half with me Deniz. :p

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Originally Posted by Rigel

Hey... you need to split half with me Deniz. :p

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No way, you may have come up with the idea of giving religious advice on a programmers forum but it was MY idea to charge $129.95 for it. :D :p

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Originally Posted by Deniz

No way, you may have come up with the idea of giving religious advice on a programmers forum but it was MY idea to charge $129.95 for it. :D :p

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you should create a thread so that people can seek advice from you:D....

as the sponsor, we split it...60-40 split....:D

//hey, don't go off-topic:D...

Think it's time for a new "Ask Deniz" thread? I don't know if the people are ready for that... :D

[SPLIT THREAD]

You can continue this issue on Ask Deniz thread...

Regards..
Anonymous...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deniz

Think it's time for a new "Ask Deniz" thread? I don't know if the people are ready for that... :D

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new?...you had start that service long ago before the pre-historic period?... :rolleyes:

BTW...they're always ready:D...

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Originally Posted by mrRee

new?...you had start that service long ago before the pre-historic period?... :rolleyes:

BTW...they're always ready:D...

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After spending 400 hours in therapy after that thread I'm having cold sweats, chills and second thoughts about that. Please don't encourage me :p

and I wonder why:rolleyes:...

Some of you might find this interesting (I've translated this from Romanian):

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Interview with God, by Octavian Paler

"So you want to interview me," said God.
"If you have time" I said. God smiled.
"My time is the eternity. What questions do you want to ask?"
"What does surprize you the most at people?"
God answered to me:
"The fact that they get bored of childhood, they rush to grow old and later they long being children again. The fact that they loose their health to make money and then loose money to regain the health. The fact that they worry about the future and forget to live the present, so they don't live neither the present nor the future; that they live like they would never die and die like they never lived."
God took my hand and there was silence for a while. Then I asked:
"As a parent, what lessons about life would like your children to learn?"
"I wish they learn that takes seconds to inflict heavy wounds in the heart of the loved ones, wounds that require years to heal. I wish they learn that a wealthy person is not someone who has many, but someone who needs the less. I wish they learn there are people who love them but who don't know yet how to express their feelings. To learn that two people can watch the same thing and see different things. To learn that it's not enough to forgive the others, but also you have to forgive yourself."
"Thank you for your time" I said humbled. "Is there anything else you want the people to know?"
God smiled to me and said:
"Just that I'm here... always."

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That is a very heartwarming piece of writing Cilu.

There is a website dedicated to it with a very nice flash animation & a coffee table book you can purchase (I did and I was not disappointed).

http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/

It is the same story only with nice nature photos.

Cilu, I'm about to have a heart attack, are you trying to tell us you enjoyed that? :blush: