Life/Religion

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Originally Posted by cherish

Yes, it is a lot safer to ask a christian personally than be misguided by articles found/read in the net.

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No Cherish... What you actually mean is "ask a practising christian".

I have met one Christian too many who has pointed flaws in the Bible out. In fact, it was only a few months back that I met a very practical American lady who was born in a family of staunch believers, and decided to study the Bible to bolster her faith in the religion. What happened as a consequence of this decision was that she studied the book in the utmost possible detail, and came up with inconsistencies and contradictions aplenty that challenged her faith in the religion. Finally, she has ended up being a non-believer.

I must add that she isn't the only such person who has studied the bible from an academic perspective and has ended up being a non-believer I know of. I have met others too.

I know many of them personally and very well.

Similarly, I have also met many advocates of Christianity. These have rarely been people who have studied the book from a practical, academic or self-interrogatory perspective - i.e. questioning every sentence and comparing against all that's been said. It is the nature of believers (of any religion) to be prejudiced towards the faith.

Having said all this, I must add that I am not saying anything against or for the book - I fully agree that it is one of the most influential masterpieces of modern religion that apart from religious values has also polarized / fostered art forms - many pieces of which I adore and enjoy very much.

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Originally Posted by Siddhartha

No Cherish... What you actually mean is "ask a practising christian".

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Yes, you are right. :D So Max, ask a practicing christian. ;)

and Max be sure its not a puritan christian :D

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Originally Posted by thecomputerprogrammer

Genesis 5:4
...Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.

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Before providing such answers you should prove that the Bible holds the truth. There is already a thread about this, where we used to discuss the errors, inconsistencies and falsities the Bible affirms.

Religion and God are nothing more than models that humans created to explain the world. As our knowledge evolved and we made more and more observations and experiments we created other and other models that better explain the universe. At this point, I would say the old model of God (whether it is Yehowah, Allah, Brahma, Manitou, etc.) no longer can provide any explanation of the world. And that's the exact reason is was dismissed in the past 150 years. We now have much better models to explain what we see.

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Originally Posted by cilu

As our knowledge evolved and we made more and more observations and experiments we created other and other models that better explain the universe...
...We now have much better models to explain what we see.

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Can we really say that our knowledge and models we create are better? could it be that science has somehow 'restrained' our way of thinking to believe in just what our 5 senses can perceive? Is our rational way of thinking really 'rational'...something like the Matrix...what you believe is the truth, is not actually the truth!
It seems science has brought to light various things happening around us, but has somehow failed to explain why they happen that way.
What is worrying is that so many scientific theories, once believed to be the 'fact', are being challenged now. How can we ever be sure that what we find next is actually taking us closer...or further away from the truth ? :eek:

I did not say we have the ultimate model. I'm sure many things will changed in the way we view the universe in the future.

@ideru & cherish: yeah, thanks for the tip..;):D

Paganism and Idolatery are models created by man for explaining the universe. But the revealed religions is too complex to be something from a human. ONE man cannot possibly could come up with religios rules/sacred books like those of (Judaism/Christians/Islam).

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Originally Posted by cilu

I did not say we have the ultimate model.

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true, and I didn't mean that either...what I am wondering is that are we going in the right direction? will we finally end up proving ourselves wrong? I am sure that the answer to this cannot be a Yes or No...just something to ponder over...

I find that religion and science complement eachother very well. Especially at the boundaries of science such as quantum physics.

Just to answer some previous questions: The bible is split up into two parts. The "old testament" is the portion common with Judaism. The "New Testament" begins with the birth of Jesus. Some of it was written by people who lived a few generations following Jesus. A lot of the books of the bible are simply lengthy letters written by the apostles to various people around the world. For those that don't know, the "apostles" were close friends of Jesus who spent most of their life travelling with him.

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Originally Posted by Chris256

I find that religion and science complement eachother very well. Especially at the boundaries of science such as quantum physics.

Just to answer some previous questions: The bible is split up into two parts. The "old testament" is the portion common with Judaism. The "New Testament" begins with the birth of Jesus. Some of it was written by people who lived a few generations following Jesus. A lot of the books of the bible are simply lengthy letters written by the apostles to various people around the world. For those that don't know, the "apostles" were close friends of Jesus who spent most of their life travelling with him.

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Yeah, but the big problem is how were these books selected to be part of the Bible. And you know, there isn't just a single Bible. There are different canons: the Catholic Bible, the Protestant Bible, the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible. The failure to have a single "word of God" is an important aspect, in my opinion, that proves the Bible is not directly inbreathed by God, and God had nothing to do with the selection of the books. It was all about politics and power.

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Originally Posted by cilu

Yeah, but the big problem is how were these books selected to be part of the Bible. And you know, there isn't just a single Bible. There are different canons: the Catholic Bible, the Protestant Bible, the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible. The failure to have a single "word of God" is an important aspect, in my opinion, that proves the Bible is not directly inbreathed by God, and God had nothing to do with the selection of the books. It was all about politics and power.

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Not to mention the religious scriptures of non-Christian religions. There are many sources to choose from if you are interested in learning about God.

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Originally Posted by Chris256

Not to mention the religious scriptures of non-Christian religions. There are many sources to choose from if you are interested in learning about God.

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Yes, answers in this thread were refering to the Bible and Christian God, and that's why I spoke about the Bible.

All religions believe in the same God. They just have different views about this God. It is futile to guess how many different books this God would like written.

Human's leave bugs.. knowingly or unknowingly.. everything might just be an illusion..

I see religion as more of an interpretation of our physical world. Similar to science it seeks to explain the unexplained. Niether religion or science do a successful job of this.

However (from a purely scientifc point of view), our complex brains need hope, it can be a matter of life or death. Religion gives that to many people; whether it be a go or gods that thyey believe in or whether they worship elephants - if it makes you happy and gives sense of purpose, Go for it. Unfortunatly, there are those who use religion for more sinister purposes - the cause of many wars, terrorism, suicides, murders (all in the name of something that proclaims to be good).

If religion is part of your life, use it sensibly, use it to make others happy and your self happy. If it isn't makign you happy then maybe you need to find another religion :)