Add your comment about the new look and feel of CodeGuru

Please do not appear to know more than anyone else. Zafir's only notice to us was the acquisition by EarthWeb, will you care to explain what this means?

In my uneducated mind, Zafir is only hanging in there to complete the transfer. If he really cared about those writing codes for the codeguru site, he will at least give us the details of what happened, why and where we are going.

Please if you have being appointed the voice of Zafir, let us know. I hope you know very well that a lawyer does not understand my codes, and please do not force me to understand his statement. What we saw at the codeguru site was a legal statement written by a fellow programmer. Now when we demanded an explanation the EarthWeb VP said he will consult their lawyers, which me a foolish coder means whatever statement is there was carefully drafted by a legal professional. Mr. Educated does it not mean, I need to consult my lawyer before writing any copyright information in my codes too?

Please if you wish to address Kirk, go ahead and do so but do not include others for God's sake.

It does sound like the new owners have bouhgt something they are not sure of. I hope Zafir is happy with what he has done.

What about the others like Chris Maunder, Tom Archer, Essam, Rama and the other managers? I haven't heard anything about them at all and I wonder if they got anything out of this. I keep hearing that they did all this work after hours for no pay since code guru was on such a tight budget - so I assume that they have all shared in the bounty. Good luck to them if they did - but why don't we hear more details and why did it take so long to announce the sale? There was a press release on yahoo weeks and weeks ago!

12.4 million, divided between code guru and another site - which means zafir and the codeguru team probably got 6 million. Well - I guess they all put a lot of work in and helped a lot of programmers - so good luck to them and they deserve it all.

Hi - this is Chris Maunder.

(I'm using anonymous posting since the board DB seems to be still having problems)

I have no idea about the sums involved since this is between Zafir and Earthweb only.

Myself and the other managers were not involved in the sale at all. It was Zafir's site
and we always knew that if it was ever sold for whatever reason then the profits
would remain with him, since he was financing the site the entire time.

I do understand that a lot of people are unhappy with the change but hopefully it
will all be sorted out soon.

cheers,
Chris

I don't know Kirk or most other people on this site, except through their articles and comments. I must say your language suggests that you must crawl through slime in your daily meanderings (mental and otherwise). I doubt that you have the capacity to put together anything of use to anyone else, which probably explains your attacks on the concerns expressed by those who do. Perhaps you should crawl back into the slimy depths from where you came, since I suspect you will feel less exposed and vulnerable there. And use some grease on your belly before you do so the rest of us don't have to listen to the slithering sound as you exit.

There seem to be a couple of areas concerning most users:

1. Copyright details
2. Feeling about the sale of CodeGuru
3. The look of the new site

The current copyright wording and comments from EarthWeb are still confusing at best. I suggest EarthWeb remove the current wording entirely and replace it with new wording that eliminates all confusion on code ownership, commercial reuse rights, and other similar legal issues raised in the many comments posted thus far. While a lawyer has to approve it, get someone to write in plain English that is completely clear.

Busines is business and web sites get bought and sold all the time. Most should have no complaint here. The issue is what EarthWeb really intends to do with the site and information contained in it. The current legal wording includes pharases like "Sub-license". This sure sounds like the potential exists for EarthWeb to sell/license the content to others for profit. I don't beleve most expected this when they submitted their code. Re-use is one thing, but re-sale is another. This again raises some legal issues, but it is at best somewhat unsettling. Again EarthWeb needs to clarify this in clear terms.

For example, suppose you submit an article and code on an interesting subject. Does EarthWeb have to get your premission before they have the information published in a national magazine? If they get paid for the magazine submission, are you entitled to any compensation? I think the current wording probably says no to both questions.

Most don't like the green wavy display, and it sounds like this will change. This is probably the easy part.

Ed Dixon

Hi All,

I have had a lot of emails from people saying they are unable to contact some of the managers
at Codeguru. The email aliases are no longer working so if you have urgent messages please
contact the managers using their "normal" email addresses instead of their codeguru addresses.

For instance, to email me send to [email protected] instead of [email protected].

I apologise for any inconvenience and am trying to fix the situation ASAP.

cheers,
Chris

Why do everything at once? As if the storm over going truly commercial alone wouldn't have been enough, you also changed the look.

I still liked the very first look I saw better (some 4 or 5 months ago). But this new one is appaling. The wavy bar and the fixed width of the normal (non article) pages are incredible (in a very negative way). Kill those 2, NOW! If I really need code, I'll still look here, until some replacement has been established, either by a normal looking interface, or by another site...

(if the fixed width really has a reason, I'd like to hear who (what browser??? All those windows developers working on a webTV?) actually had a problem with it. If it is really, really, really an important part of your (ex-?)audiance, have a cookie that serves up a fixed witdh adapted site.)

Why force the width of the pages to something so small? Why force it at all? If you just don't know how to do it then...

1. In the <TABLE> tag, use WIDTH=100%. The table will resize automatically.
2. If you didn't know this already, what business do you have running a site such as this?
3. If you did know it but forced the width for some other reason, WHY?

I can see wanting to make the site readable in 640x480, but don't force the issue. When I come in with my browser size around 1024x768, the extra white space on the right makes the site look stupid.

I think we should all be happy for Zafir and the future of CodeGuru. Every new business transaction has some teething problems. I am quite certain that the ones with codeguru will soon be taken care of. This is a useful site for all developers and those who continue to see its value will stay on and use it. I do not believe that attcking the site or any person is helping. Sure lets all make suggestions that will make codeguru a better site.

Thanks

Wow! Cool! Shows how a good idea with some hard work can really pay off.

Sombody has asked me what i would prefer: a commercial site or a non commercial site. Thinking about this i got a new idea which is between a non commercial site (for example a site on a university) and a commercial site (like the actual codeguru which will be a museum). It is possible to make a commercial codeguru like site with a complete open interface. Everything would be open in a form that everybody can install the site on another server and use ALL information for his own purpose and where the sites can freely exchange the information they have. If somebody would alter the site in a way that an export is not possible any more he won't get new articles from the authors and the other sites.

Everything would be open:

1) All incomming code
2) All published code
3) All internal code from the site for managing the site
4) The site itself would be made from several layers with well documented layers:

a) The lowest layer would be a database and a import and export utility. The database can be object oriented or be a simple tree of files.
b) Above it would be a layer which would handle the inner logic of the database

These two layers should be simple. On top of layer b) would be

c) a layer which can manage modules
d) a layer which are the modules and which can only talk to b) and c) and do give us the functionality we need: Get an article and display it in a browser, looking for articles, generating indexes, handling a registration of incomming code, handling the state of a review before the code gets the state published etc.
d) All modules in d) would be open too. All programmers around the world can contribute their modules like all other source code which would be published to this site.

5) The whole site would also be published on two CDs for a very low fee. One cd contains the articles and one cd contains the whole source code of the site. The two cds together can setup a new site.
6) There are no copyright restrictions

The starting site can be commercial but there is no risk for selling this site for millions of dollars simply because everybody can copy the site and restart it at another place. Perhaps the whole site should be designed to be on a lot of servers which do exchange their information.

If one of such sites would become crazy too (like the actual codeguru) there would be no problem to launch the site on another server and do it better by making new modules of level 3d). Then there would be a competition who would do it better.

This way the authors always have the guarantee their published code will be realy public.

Perhaps Zafir can follow up those ideas to gain back the trust of all authors and to start a second very interesting experiment. I think we will have no problems when he and earth web will make more cash with it at the end. He can remain the best of all publishers of our code. But he will has to work on an open interface. With real competition.

Ernst Versteeg
[email protected]

I have just readed the 'Terms & Conditions'. Codeguru is dead.

Ernst Versteeg
[email protected]

I think the worry over rights is based on the beginning of your terms & conditions:

"All pages within this Internet site ("Site") are the property of EarthWeb Inc. Permission (which may be revoked at any time) is granted to download the material in this Site without alterations and for private and non-commercial use only so long as the following copyright notice is included: Copyright 1996, 1997, 1998 EarthWeb Inc. All Rights Reserved."

That restriction to 'download the material' could apply to my use of the code posted on a page, which would be disastrous. I understand Earthweb wants to protect the collection of contributions it now owns, but I think it's important to make it perfectly clear that using the code in a compiled form is not restricted at all by Earthweb, and even reasonable reuse of the source itself is allowed (a reference to the codeguru web site would make sense here). Maybe all that's needed is clarifying the difference between the pages themselves and the code content within.

Here are a few of the things I think are creating a fuss during this transition:
This agreement was clearly written by lawyers. Right or wrong, lawyers are not widely liked, trusted, or respected. Translate the agreement to English, and you'll gain a lot more trust from users. The few who actually try to read what's written there now are probably looking for reasons to justify their suspicions.

The agreement is clearly outdated boilerplate text. It's been 1999 for quite a while now, but your required copyright message stops at 1998 (unlike the 'actual' copyright message that appears before it - a sloppy update I suppose). My assumption is that it was written long ago without any consideration for how it would apply to source code.

Finally, earthweb is a big company clearly looking to get bigger. That's potentially a big change for this site. I know little of Earthweb, but assume it hosts a huge assortment of content and developers may not be a significant fraction of your business. Again, a potentially big change. Zafir had nothing like your resources available, but obviously worked his butt off for a long time and had no higher priorities distracting him.

But, if you can spell out that Earthweb makes no restriction on reuse of contributed content (though contributors may provide their own, and include it with the contribution and make full use of our larger than average monitors, I bet things will pipe down quickly.

no text

Where do we publish our new code, our modules, our comments now? We now need a simple way to publish our code in a non commercial way. Zafir may add then links to our code. We always appreciate the work he has done for us. So he can make links from his commercial site to our new free site. If he is friendly we can notify him about our changes.

I suspect that many of us will be very wary of "giving" material to any site from now on. It is quite possible that the fuss will settle down, and we'll all view developer.com as a benign friend. However, even then we would be very much aware that developer.com could easily be sold on again, perhaps to someone who really would look to using our freely-given contributions for their own considerable profit. I think that the best solution would be for us all to retain any code and articles that we create at a server of our own choosing. Any site, commercial or non-commercial, could then link to this code; the better ones would do so after summarising what the code does and possibly even rating it (it could also maintain the "Add Comments" database that would allow suggestions/praise/critism). Developer.com or anyone else could do this--that CodeGuru has recently changed its policy and specifically disallowed such links should provide food for thought about the relative financial value of links versus article/code donation. The kind of scheme outlined about would retain all the benefits of code-sharing for users, but ensure that it would never again be possible to "sell" our code on.

Robin

Ah, yes, I think the offending paragraph is

All pages within this Internet site ("Site") are the property of EarthWeb Inc. Permission (which may be revoked at any time) is granted to download the material in this Site without alterations and for private and non-commercial use only so long as the following copyright notice is included: Copyright 1996, 1997, 1998 EarthWeb Inc. All Rights Reserved.

In which case, they are (trying to) usurping the copyright from the REAL copyrighters, in which case, is not legal. And, they go on to contradict themselves by adding-

PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU RETAIN OWNERSHIP OF ANY COPYRIGHTS OF ANY CONTENT YOU SUBMIT.

Clearly, this 'license' would not hold up. When I originally read this, I overpassed the top paragraph.

Hi Ernst,

because you're so worrying about codeguru, can you point me to some articles or posts in the discussion forum here which you wrote?

Martin

look for the word analysis in the title

ernst

Deleted by request by poster.

Hi Ernst,

it's not only this post. Since days you're complaining about everything since Earthweb bought codeguru, but I'm wondering because I never saw a post or article from you. I didn't read all, so that's the reason for my question. On the other hand if there isn't anything from you I don't understand your posts in this thread.

My point of view is that Zafir made a big deal, and he is worth the money. He gave us a great platform for exchanging tips and hints, and I believe him and Earthweb when they say that the code will be free for use like it is before, unless there are facts that this isn't true.

Martin

Hi,

I hope that CodeGuru will remain free.

I don't like the curves on the left side of the pages. They overlapp with the text.

Bye,
Claude

What a mess, please change it back.
What was wrong with the previous format?

Sometimes you have to scroll left and right to read the full text of an article (Example: Auto increase build number in the Dev.Studio-Macros-Section).

This is not good.

Thank you *** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Gentleman and Ladies,

The issue of commercialization or code rights are irrelevant. The real issue is content, and I noticed a sharp drop in new articles prior to the new management of the CodeGuru site. Basically there haven't been more than a half dozen postings since the change. THAT and nothing but NEW CONTENT is why I and everyone else visits CodeGuru. Without new postings, EarthWeb will have a dead site. I strongly suggest that everyone stop griping about anything other than the techincal content.

Paul Wolfensberger

Hey Gurus, stop being jealous, CodeGurus, I'm sure
will remain the same, except with more adds. People will continue to share their knowledge and you will continue to hae free code. Zafir made, probably, a lot with this move, but he made a lot for this site and for the programmers.

Me, I will continue to come to this site every day and every time I will have a problem.

Mike

What happened to the related items feature in the news group pages? That was
one of the best things about this site and now I can't find it. Is it still
there? Or was it removed?

- Jim

Sorry i havn't published much code because i have just started a half a year ago to write code which can be published. I have now several code modules which i want to publish. Some of them are: An enhanced CMemDC which can be used for flicker free redrawing AND for save the background of a window in a separate bitmap (which is all handled in separate classes), a base class (CPageFactory) which can be build into the mfc print/preview framework and where CPageFactory can be derived to print/preview abritrary reports, including simple text reports or reports with the classes Dib, CPage and CPrinter from the former Codeguru, and some smaller usefull classes like a base class for user defined windows, versioning etc. Those modules are now tested successful and it is time to publish them.

But i realy don't know where to publish this now. Thats the problem.

And i cannot believe Zafir any longer because he has CHANGED the rules when he has sold it to earth web, and because earth web is HIGHLY commercial orientated (see the article about the deal as indicated by a former post) and because earth web can sell the site later too, for example to Microsoft (which would be not a bad idea if we compare the interests the companys have). And i haven't seen or heard any thing good about earth web too. If you look to the fruits you see something about the tree.

I want a independent platform for posting articles and where realy everybody can access it. Note the rules in earth web. They can exclude people or countries accessing their site and so accessing our code. Perhaps they later want a fee when somebody wants to surf on their site. - Yes. The copyright of the source code remains by the author. But the collection of all our code is owned by them. Thus they can put any limitations on the collection of our code.

But ok. There are not much reactions on my posts. You may use Codeguru further and i wish you a lot of pleasure with this new crew. They will love you when you send them your code. Perhaps they will invite you on their villa for a weekend. And they will certainly remove the wavy bar for you all.

If you see only the complaining part of my posts then you don't give me any answer to my indirect questions and constructive suggestions. Please note all other posts of authors who do complain and who certainly won' send articles any longer.

I will stop complaining to not disturb the peace in the new codeguru any longer.

Ernst
[email protected]

12 Million $ is a lot of money.

What will earthweb do to get this money (and maybe a lot more) back?

I am no expert but I dont think they will get it from the adds on a webside witch is only interesting for developers.

Will they sell something too, or what?

If I were a Author (I am not) I would think twice about sending it to someone who makes money with it by publishing it.

If he (or that orginisation) makes a lot of money (must be a lot) I would want to get money too because I would have a lot of work with it.

If I dont have the feeling that nobody gets money for my work there is no problem, but... .

Would you write an article (You have a lot of work) for the NY times without getting money for it?

I didnt wrote an article for codeguru but if I had I would be very angry about it.

Hi Ernst,

I just picked your post because I stumbled several times over your name in this thread. Yes, I saw the other complaining about that, too. And I saw the flames from some anonymous people :-(

But I think if you want a site to which you can post your code and to be safe that there's no change in ownership or rules, you need to build your own site.

And the thing about the invitation in the viall ;-) I don't think the new owners will do that. It's just that it's more realistic that noone can afford such a huge internet presence like Zafir did without either selling it or going bankrupt.

Martin

FYI,

To make sure that there is no confusion, I have added the following statement to the copyright for the CJLibrary.

" Any source code found in the CJLibrary, that was not written by Kirk Stowell, has been included in this library with
the contributing authors permission. In no means whatsoever does CodeJock.com nor Kirk Stowell lay claim to any source code
that has been contributed by authors other than Kirk Stowell, and such source has been and shall remain the sole property
of said contributing author. "

Hope this helps to further clear up any issues...
-- Kirk

The flame throwers are off.

Let me start by saying I am not Zafir. Don't even know the fellow. As to remaining anonymous, well that is simply a choice. By the way I do not belong to earthweb or any other related company/organization/blah/blah....

My posting was more a result of frustration with the discussion over the copyright issues. I agree the wording may have been ambiguous and that clarifications may be required. However I was surprised at the backlash and the attacks on someone for making a smart business decision. What I saw was attacks rather than questions and suggestions. The attacks also had in them the agenda of promoting your web site. In turn, I must admit, my posting was rude and could have been made in a more descent manner. For which I apologize. I guess my behaviour was no different from that of others. We are all sheep ;-)

Please note, I will not be responding to any more postings or actually visiting this discussion as I do have work to do. One visit has created enough ill will. I will continue to use and post articles on codeguru and I hope most us will too. It is a great site from which I and a lot of other folks have derived much benefit and continue to do so.

Why should we do that Kirk, so you can use it to do consulting and sell it to people like your CJLibrary.

The last article is from September 01, 1999!

© Copyright 1999, Anonymous

ANONYMOUS PROVIDES THIS MESSAGE SUBJECT TO YOUR COMPLIANCE WITH THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH BELOW. PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION CAREFULLY:

COPYRIGHT INFORMATION

Copyright 1999 Anonymous. All Rights Reserved.

All words within this message ("Message") are the property of Anonymous. Permission (which may be revoked at any time) is granted to read the material in this Message without alterations and for private and non-commercial use only so long as the following copyright notice is included: Copyright 1999 Anonymous. All Rights Reserved.

bla...bla...bla

I've gotten a couple of replies to posts since the earthweb move, and haven't gotten any email notifications. I know you've got the correct email address because I recently had to get new passwords a couple of times. I'm sure the 'email' checkbox is marked when I submit the posts too.

Does the feature only work in the 'regular' (non-*****ing) forums? Or did the move break it? I'll miss it if it's gone forever.

Please read the above "The Copyright Debate, the Kirks, the Idiots, blah blah blah" this topic is getting quite old, wouldn't you agree ???

No, the feature has not been removed. I know it did work in the new server - at least for a while. It could just be a delay at the server. Will look into this.

No, the feature has not been removed. I know it did work in the new server - at least for a while. It could just be a delay at the server. Will look into this.

I don't recall any 'Related Item'. Could you give some more detail.

I don't recall any 'Related Item'. Could you give some more detail.

The site updates have been thin because of the logistics of moving such a huge site to a new server. We should see the frequency of updates increase in the next couple of weeks.

The site updates have been thin because of the logistics of moving such a huge site to a new server. We should see the frequency of updates increase in the next couple of weeks.

This one sort of worked. I got the notification, but the link included was incomplete:

You can respond to this message by following the URL below
/bbs/wt/showpost.pl?Board=general&Number=420&page=0&view=collapsed&mode=threaded&sb=5&category=

It used to provide the whole http://... enchilada for a direct link to the reply.

CodeGuru will remain a free resource to developers.

We will be redesigning the page and take care of the curve on the left side.

CodeGuru will remain a free resource to developers.

We will be redesigning the page and take care of the curve on the left side.

That's another thing that might have to wait a couple of days for a fix. It will certainly be fixed.

That's another thing that might have to wait a couple of days for a fix. It will certainly be fixed.

Didn't realize that it was effecting the articles too. Will be working on fixing it.

Didn't realize that it was effecting the articles too. Will be working on fixing it.