James, have a look on the online resellers, I think it's available separately.
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James, have a look on the online resellers, I think it's available separately.
I thought it's ok since most of its information can be downloaded from msnQuote:
Originally posted by billwilson3
Yes very illeagal.
Actually all the information is available for free on the MSDN web site. But, still illeagal to distribute the CDs.
Go figure.
A universal MSDN subscription (the last I heard) is $2500 per year!!
Well, with an MSDN subscription you also get all of the MS programs thrown in. You get all the operating systems, the development tools, Office etc..
Yes, its indispensible to a developer who works on any thing other than a single platforms. It's pretty hard to say you are prepared to do Windows development work if you do not have a subscription.
On the other hand, its awfully expensive. I've never actually owned one myself, but have always had access to one through my clients (its usually a requirement in my contract that they provide it).
:)Quote:
Originally posted by billwilson3
... (its usually a requirement in my contract that they provide it).
I never thought of this. I'll give it a try. Thanks for the idea.
Well, the topic I have in mind when I created this poll is not necessarily programming language stat in general but more on my observation about the activities of posts and threads in this site. I am a VB man and also trying to learn C++. And since I deal mostly with VB men too, I got the impression that there are more VB men than C++ men. I was therefore amazed to see VC/C posts and threads outnumber VB by 4 to 1. Really? There are 4 VC/C++ programmers for every VB programmer?Quote:
JamesSchumacher:
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To keep this on topic - I think a better question to have asked instead of VC++ vs. VB, is a C++ vs. VB vs. Delphi vs. Assembly vs. Java vs. etc.... Talk about languages instead of development environments. Because truth be told, VC++ vs. VB is all about Microsoft - not my cup of tea.
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But then I realized I have more bugging questions studying in C++ than in Basic. So I thought maybe the statistics represent only the questions and answers -- not the real ratio between VC/C++ programmers and VB programmers.
Check the poll stat. It's not really 4 to 1. That's simply the intention.
*jokingly*Quote:
But then I realized I have more bugging questions studying in C++ than in Basic. So I thought maybe the statistics represent only the questions and answers -- not the real ratio between VC/C++ programmers and VB programmers.
That is why they say that VB is a language for beginners, not so many bugging questions ;)
But look at Xeon. He started with C++ :p then later VB :DQuote:
Originally posted by Yves M
*jokingly*
That is why they say that VB is a language for beginners, not so many bugging questions ;)
Anyway, VB may have already progressed into modular to structured to object based to OOP to whatever term you may use to modern and advanced programming methods but it cant get away from it's trademark as being the language suited only for beginners. It's probably because the name itself is "Basic" and the word "Beginner" even banners in that name.
Look at Fortran. The syntax of Basic and Fotran is probably 80% to 90% similar, yet, no one (or very rare is ever there is one) is labeling Fortran as a beginner's language. If you have tried programming in dBase, Foxbase, Foxpro, Clipper and/or Cobol, you could probably tell that these are more simple languages too, yet, I haven't heard anyone calling them as beginner's languages.
Look at Pascal. Because of its humble beginning as a teaching language, it has not completely extinguished its label as a language suited only for students. Not until it has become Modula, Delphi and/or Ada. That, despite the fact, that Pascal has nearly matched C in terms of power.
Probably time to rename Basic? (Come on, suggest a name)
C on the other hand had its high profile beginning as "designed for systems programming", "tools for creating compilers" or, as one of the book I have read described it as "the language designed for real programmers."
Maybe the rules on "first impressions last" applies to programming lanuages.:)
From AIO :
Nay, AIO pal! I had no choice but to do VB every now and then, cos' it's part of my school subject. No offense, but it kinda sucks. :):)Quote:
But look at Xeon. He started with C++ then later VB
Hey Xeon Pal. You're back. Codeguru is a little anaemic without you.:)
They should know that!
Thanks to C/C++/ASM, VB has a compiler. ;)
If it wasn't for computer ML, we wouldn't have assembly.
If it wasn't for assembly, we wouldn't have C and C++.
And other languages wouldn't exist if it weren't for C and C++ for the majority (and assembly on some parts).
I know MS didn't do Visual Basic in assembly (maybe 2% of it at best) - but then again MS is sloppy at C/C++, just look at MFC source, or any code example from MSDN. :rolleyes: I guess that's why they wrote C#, considering I heard 60% of XP and future OS'es will be on this new language. (Guess their lazy, and don't care for performance) - (Even their CRT implementation is bloated)
Thanks a lot, AIO! Yes, yes.....I heard that some of those regular posters actually cried while I was away for the past few days.(got banned)
Thank you so much! :):D:D
But anyway, James.......
1) Do they create Visual C++ in ASM? It must be a real pain, cos' look at those GUI stuff in the Visual C++ IDE.......yucks.
2) Also, James......do u know what they use to create the VB IDE? If they didn't do it in ML or ASM, maybe they used Visual C++?
If that's the case, then I feel as if I'm God. :):D
Actually - it's one of Microsoft's own quotes - "We use it before you do. Visual C++ was written with Visual C++." :D Figure that one out. If you scroll through the tips of the day of VC++ (6.0 anyway) you'll see that quote.Quote:
Originally posted by Xeon
Thanks a lot, AIO! Yes, yes.....I heard that some of those regular posters actually cried while I was away for the past few days.(got banned)
Thank you so much! :):D:D
But anyway, James.......
1) Do they create Visual C++ in ASM? It must be a real pain, cos' look at those GUI stuff in the Visual C++ IDE.......yucks.
2) Also, James......do u know what they use to create the VB IDE? If they didn't do it in ML or ASM, maybe they used Visual C++?
If that's the case, then I feel as if I'm God. :):D
So I guess that would mean that the first 32 bit version of VC++ was done in C and assembler - and from then on out they used the old version of VC++ to develop the next version.
I do know that they still use VC++ 5.00 for some things, I've seen Microsoft applications with a linker version of 5.12. :rolleyes:
I guess after they're done, they recompile the code with the new version - because CL.EXE has a linker version of 6.0.
Can someone with the .NET compiler check the linker version on CL.exe? I would bet it's 7.0.... (Use Dependency Walker)
(And seeing some *supposed* MS drivers on my CPU right now, the real checksum doesn't match link checksum - guess they're hacked drivers. ;) Guess that's why I don't see the blue screen of death so much. :p - I'm sorry, I mean system *.dll's - not drivers. Don't no where my mind was on that one. )
Or perhaps, created the compiler/linker etc, with C/Asm, then the resulting product was used to created the IDE?