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Hi,
i would like to attend a course based on visual C++,but i haven't found anything so far.Instead,i've found interesting courses based on C#.
Now i've got two questions:
1)Is it convenient for me to attend a course based on C#?I mean,are C# and C++(or,better,visual C++ and visual C#)similar or are they so different?
2)Can you give me some good link regarding courses on visual C++?
Thanks in advance
C# and C++ are pretty different. For example, C# has garbage collection that will automatically cleanup memory of unused objects. Standard C++ doesn't have that.
Basically, when you know C++ it's much easier to learn C# than the otherway around. So learning C# won't help you much if you want to learn C++.
I wouldn't really use garbage collection as the main difference. You can easily take care of memory management by using smart-pointers and by using standard containers instead of using raw pointers.
In C#, like in Java, all your objects are created with new. In C++ you can create objects that way or you can create them on the heap.
In C#, like with Java, the basic language is fairly straightforward. What you need to learn is the libraries. In C++ you also need to learn to use the libraries.
In both cases, knowledge of the language and its libraries alone does not make you into a good programmer. You must apply them well too. Some knowledge of Object-Orientated design (and in the case of C++, knowledge of algorithms) will help.
It really depends on what you are writing for. If you want to write add-ins for Excel then I'd suggest you use the .NET framework which would probably mean C# which is the main language for the .NET framework. If you are writing a major server that you want high performance in real-time, write it in C++.
Completely different... the only thing similar is the syntax. But is where it ends. Different programming paradym completely.
To program C++, I would probably recomend getting a SAMS book. They're pretty good generally. I have never read the C++ book though.
First of all thanks for your answers :)
My question was basically due to a doubt i have:what is the future of Visual C++?
This doubt was born some weeks ago,when i was searching for a good training course on this language:i've encountered some problems in finding someone.Instead,i've found easily a lot of courses regarding Java,C#,asp and so on.
So i repeat the question asked above,because i'm sure i'm in the right place to have a good answer:what is the future of Visual C++?
is Visual C++.NET better?
which programming language would you suggest me to learn in a serious way(consider i know a few C++)?
I don't know where people get those information all the time....MFC is dying, Visual C++ is dying etc.
First of all, you have to differentiate between Visual C++ and C++. The former is just a C++ compiler that comes with an integrated development IDE, the latter is a language. Having said this, your question would rather:
What is the future of the Microsoft CLI extensions they added to C++? Currently, it is kind of hard to tell. Microsoft added some extensions to the core C++ language to make if compatible with their .NET framework. They also communicate with the C++ standardization people to see whether these kind of extensions (or a subset) will become part of the next C++ standard.
Besides that...the C++ compiler is by far the most efficient one in regard to compile managed code. It is highly optimized to produce fast managed code and thus, does it better than any other compiler such as the C# or VB.NET one. In other words...the C++ compiler compiles the most optimized managed code.
These two things should give you a hint whether Microsoft considers C++ out of date or not.... ;)
In regard to you learning question...it kind of depends what you want to program. Given that you already seem to know some C++, I would probably continue with C++ in the first place. ONce you have learned it, you can easily switch to other languages. On the other sie, if you rather program GUI-based applications (maybe with database interaction etc.), I would rather suggest using C# or VB.NET which make things much easier in this regard.
There is no one language...the key ability of a developer is to be able to choose the right programming language for a specific job....based on the timeframe, costs, project requirements etc.
Why C# in place of C++, not Java or something else? C# is mostly Microsoft thing and it's not considered all-purpose language.
There are C# compilers for other platforms such as Linux, so it's not entirely a Microsoft thing. See the Mono compiler.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboTact
C# is not meant to be an all-purpose language, it is meant to be a language to program under the .NET framework for specific types of application.
True that on the whole it is not multi-platform but it's not really meant to be.
One of the major downsides of C++ is that it is lacking in standard libraries with regard to network technologies, graphics/GUI and concurrency (threads).
There are some open-source libraries being written to fill in these gaps but they are not standard.
Take a first course in C++ and you'll be writing console apps with tricky cout/cin statements to implement something that looks like an application out of the 1980s. No wonder people find Java more attractive, where you are likely be writing an app that runs in a web-browser, and when programming C++ will tend towards MFC which provides some basic GUI (albeit that the concept of an application that isn't a document editor that has a menu is too complex to be in the application wizard).
That's why I used that 'mostly' word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc G
It was just a personal feeling,i haven't read it anywhere!Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Masur
I'm very far from being an expert of this arguments,so,at this stage,i base my opinion on personal feelings:that's why when i post my attitude is that of a learner programmer,not of an expert one :).
But,as i've already said,this feeling was partially confirmed by that lack of visual C++ courses.
This is one of my personal feelings... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by NMTop40
I'm happy of this:my main concern is writing fast applications,eventually based on a relatively simple GUI(but i would like,for the future,to create richer GUIs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Masur
Some questions:i've heard about managed C++.You speak about managed code:are they the same concepts?
But most of all,what is managed C++?
Is Java compiled or interpreted?(sorry for my ignorance....)
Java is compiled to bytecode which is not machine code. This bytecode is then interpreted by the Java virtual machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraben
Not exactly interpreted - it's partially compiled on target machine.
Well...no...managed code is code that is 'managed' by some kind of run-time environment. With Java it is the virtual machine, with .NET it is the .NET framework.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraben
Managed C++ was just the implementation of the managed components for C++.
Managed C++ was the first version of some C++ extensions Microsoft did to support the .NET framework. It has now been replaced with C++/CLI which are C++ extensions that bind the C++ language to the ECMA standard Common Language Infrastructure (CLI). These extensions are currenlty in the process of being standardized by the ECMA and are also being discussed to be integrated into the next C++ standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraben
Well, being a Microsoft thing has nothing much in it as an argument. It all depends on the system that you are targetting. You don't have to do anything exceptional with Java to get a platform independence. That is managed by the JVM. It basically is important to learn any one and be aware about what systems could be targetted. .Net is expanding and so are the efficiency of the web servers provided by MS. I am not saying competitors are not there ... may be more ahead but .Net is something really happening. Java was used for extensive web apps and services a few years ago and even now but I see that ASP.Net code base is also increasing hugely.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboTact
Moreover, with the kind of documentation that MS provides is far better than what is there for Java and its api's. It helps learning fast and easy.
Personally I find the buzzwords of Java too overwhelming for an amateaur. Cost of infrastructure is what I think gives Java the edge otherwise performance wise C++ or C# are much better than Java ...
So I won't compare what to learn on the basis of which has not to do with MS but I would suggest picking up anyone for which resources are easily available to one and then keep on building the earned knowledge... I dont think there's any harm in learning both C# and Java.. most of the stuff are quite common...
Cheers... best regard.
I don't exactly understand this sentence... Are you saying that Java has better infrastructure, but both C++ and C# have better performance? C# is managed code, as well as Java, there is no principal performance difference, while C++ has no such limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by exterminator
Well...there is some difference...managed .NET code has proven to be faster than Java. And that basically reveals one problem I see with Java. Although being around for some years, Sun (still) didn't get the performance right.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboTact
That's why I planted that 'principal' word... Platforms themselves seem to require about equal overheads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Masur
..because I was probably not clear .. its about 5 in the morning... :( and i cant find sleep. By cost I meant MS products are costlier in terms of $$.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboTact
//sorry I should not be posting in this state :ehh:
Well...maybe you should rather try the bed instead of trying to fall asleep in front of the monitor... :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by exterminator
Yah .. I had finally got it .. had an Informix unsolved issue at work which got solved late night...Now ... Good Morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Masur
By the way, I don't see much code in .Net except for C# (which I think is central to .net) and VB.Net (due to the huge VB 6.0 community). I am still to find some reasons for this because I had actually thought of C++.Net to be the leading one. Regards.
That's probably because in my opinion and just about everybody else's who I've ever talked about writing .NET in C++ is somewhat of a pain. It seems to have become better with the new language extensions, but I still think it's a pain.Quote:
By the way, I don't see much code in .Net except for C#...
Personally I'd recommend you learn and use C# to write managed code because that's what it's designed to do.
That's what I do : and use native C++ for any time-critical pieces of code.
Darwen.