What type of applications are you working on in the real world?

Hello everyone.

This summer and fall i'll be doing a paid co-op with IBM's Tivoli zSeries team at research triangle park and it seems they use Java/Eclipse for everything and hardly any C++. Problem is, I don't know Java that much and i've mainly been working with just C/C++.


It just makes me wonder how much of the programming do you do with actual C++? Is it mainly just legacey code or what? It just makes me wonder when a big place like IBM doesn't like C++ what companies do like it?

I also found out most colleges will teach your intro to programming and other courses in Java and maybe have 1 course in C++ but my school is just the opposite. Infact it just now is offering a Java class but its for freshman/sophmores and I don't have time to fit it into my class scheduel so I won't be taking it.

Not doing much C++ these days, primarily managed code development using C++. Right now I am assisting a major medical equipment manufacturer in creating a system that will allow their field service engineers to access all pertinant records on the equipment via their Palm. Middle tier is WebServices in C# with a SQLServer & SAP backend,

sounds very exciting! I was thinking about learning C# because it seems to work so nicely with databases

An MMO. A major one.

If you work in the games industry you will very likely use C++, especially if writing for Playstation or similar.

I won't be doing any game programming it would be fun though but it looks like i'll be either learning java or C# but most likely java/eclipse I guess IBM will send co-ops for training, and pay you at the same time! wee!


thanks for the advice guys!

In no particular order, a few of the projects I've done in C++ over the last few years:

Various plugins for AutoCAD & Revit.

Various plugins for 3DS Max 9 (and Viz 2007).

Various plugins for Wavelab/Cubase (audio effects).

OEM image editing tool (some of us can't really divulge who we work for).

Document archive/management tools (system services for Windows server/workstation).

DNC editor/interface application - this is a glorified text editor that automatically matches a 'punch program' written to control a turret punch (a machine you feed in a piece of steel/aluminum 12ft by 8 ft, and it punches out parts according to a program). The 'trick' with this, however, was to automatically adapt a 'punch' program written for one turret to work on another turret. Mates with a SQL database of tools, jobs in the schedule for the manufacturer, etc.

HPGL/2 plot processing/viewer - HPGL/2 is a vector language used to control plotters, typically when printed from a CAD product. The industry producing high speed plots of large format pages (3' x 4' or larger) needed tools to control the plotted output from AutoCAD files and various formats.



That's just a few that come to mind. Several could have been done in Java or C# (not the plugins, though - many of the required a particular version of MS Visual C++).



Oh, and don't judge IBM by one department. They're a huge company with many, overlapping directions all at once. For example, one of the geniuses from IBM invented RISC computing. Bresenham, of the line drawing algorithm, was at IBM at the time (so I'm told).

They have (or had) a considerable investment in AIX (a Unix derivative), which still requires a staff of C and C++ engineers.

Plus, it simply makes sense to me that a trainee type program would bring people in to languages geared toward a kind of population for which that's best suited. C++ just doesn't fit into that kind of thing. A manager or director would require anything for which C++ was particularly suited to be staffed by top notch engineers, and wouldn't want any of them burdened with trainees.


Edit:

I thought I'd add, too, that in the course of a career you'll probably visit several languages or "languagettes" along the way. Just this last month I took a project to help an old friend- it's written in ActionScript for Flash CS3.

That's something I normally just don't do, but you know how it is when two old high school buddies get on in years.

Among the products/projects I've not bothered to list above, I've used C++ to develop products for web services that themselves deploy PHP.

The last significant C++ project I worked on was most of summer 2006. A large industrial automation company was cleaning up and re-factoring their product line so that the front end components (both desktop and webbased) could be re-implemented using a combination of C# and VB.NET.

In the C# domainn:

Helped a large insurance company implement a system for reviewing customers initial application for auto insurance. The system contacted the DMV and pulled a copy of the actual drivers record. This was then compared with the customers information, and adjusted as appropriate

Helped a major investment firm update their program for tracking and managing initial puclic offerings [IPO's]. Program was written with an ASP.NET front end.

Helped a major cable company in implementing a system for tracking internal purchases and automatically routine the approvals. Program was in C# and used BizTalk for most of the workflow.

That's just a few highlights......

c# or java is the best language to learn. c# is very nice language it really makes database user interfaces, and programming in general very simple in that you just worry about high level details because most stuff is already wrapped up in objects for you. Java is portable and runs on any computer with its VM on it theres nothing else to say. I cant think of anything more important then ease of use and portability that you get with java the only thing u lose is speed due to the vm interpreting it.

Hi.

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Originally Posted by abcdefgqwerty

I cant think of anything more important then ease of use and portability that you get with java the only thing u lose is speed due to the vm interpreting it.

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This is not quite correct. Java is not interpreted. Sun's implementation of the VM (together with several others) is based on Just-in-Time compilers (JITs), which is very different from interpretation (specially, regarding performance). Without turning the thread into a different direction... current implementations of some VM's can be very efficient.

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Originally Posted by voidflux

It just makes me wonder how much of the programming do you do with actual C++? Is it mainly just legacey code or what? It just makes me wonder when a big place like IBM doesn't like C++ what companies do like it?

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I would say that C++ was the #1 choice for Windows client application development five years ago (though some VB fans might disagree), but things are rapidly going towards C# now.

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Five years ago C++ seemed to be the #1 choice for Windows client application development,

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Possibly... A LOT of client applications have been developed in VB.....

I guess it depends on what you mean by "choice" and what type of client applications....

I just knew someone would say that and so I had edited my post.
:D

Yes, VB is used a lot as well.
:)



But do people write heavy duty applications like word processors, web browsers, and games in VB ? I thought it was mainly business internal database accessing software (stock control etc).

so how do you guys learn these new languages?

Like when do you know it enough that you can just put it on your resume?

I'm a very self motivated person and I love to learn new things but if you don't official take a course on it, and you self teach yourself from a book and doing small applications here and there when do you actually say, Yes I can do this in c# or java or vb.net.

Because over the summer while working for them I am going to have a ton a free time on my hands, so I might as well pick up a new language while i'm at it.

Some answers from a guy who has been doing this for nearly 36 years.....

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so how do you guys learn these new languages?

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By spending a lot of time with them. Also by concentrating on the underlying concepts. Translating that to different languages then becomes easier.

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Like when do you know it enough that you can just put it on your resume?

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In general, I only list languages that I have spent 1000-2000 hours with, after I feel I have become profecient at them.

Thanks CPUWizard!

I'll take that into account.

95% of all my coding is in C++ or C.

I do service and driver development, and all the driver code is in C, while the service applications are all in C++.

In my company, Java is only used with code that has a GUI interface, and that needs to be used in multiple platforms.
Most of the remaining applications are coded in C++.
I've worked in 5 major companies in the pass, and all five companies have done the majority of coding in C++.
I rarely see any coding done in C#

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Originally Posted by voidflux

so how do you guys learn these new languages?

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I spend a lot of time playing around with them at home, hence my hobby projects. I can use that experience at work.

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Originally Posted by voidflux

Like when do you know it enough that you can just put it on your resume?

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I think you have to break it down into levels of experience.
1) Have used it.
2) Confident using it.
3) Experienced using it.

For (1) I would want to have at least one successful deployment (at work level, not hobby level).
For (2) I would go with TheCPUWizard's 1000-2000 hours, i.e. over half a year of day to day usage.
For (3) I'd want a few years .

Hi voidflux.

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Originally Posted by voidflux

Like when do you know it enough that you can just put it on your resume?

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You don't need to put on your resume only things in which you're an expert. You could describe your level of expertise in some programming languages (or technology in general) as "intermediate" or "beginer". However, depending on the resume, if a you're a "beginer" it might not be worth to put it on. I like Zaccheus levels of experience description.

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Originally Posted by voidflux

I'm a very self motivated person and I love to learn new things but if you don't official take a course on it, and you self teach yourself from a book and doing small applications here and there when do you actually say, Yes I can do this in c# or java or vb.net.

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The first important thing is that taking a course doesn't really tell whether or not you're good at something. Yes, it usually helps, but it's not a guarantee. I really like the "teach yourself" methodology and later take a course (if you need or if couldn't make it on your own). When you start working with some technology (and it doesn't need to be in a company, it might be a personal project) you'll have a "feeling" about how good you are.

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Originally Posted by voidflux

Because over the summer while working for them I am going to have a ton a free time on my hands, so I might as well pick up a new language while i'm at it.

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I would go for Java. Although C# is also a good option, I believe that Java has a larger market piece today (at least in Brazil, where I live).

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I really like the "teach yourself" methodology

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As to I, but there are risks, especially for beginners. A person may figure out "some way" to accomplish a goal, that appears to work, but really has serious negative consequences that are not readily visible.

This can easily lead to very bad habits, that can be nearly impossible to break.

If at all possible, get in contact with some type of Mentor.

Thanks guys, all great advice.

When I get back from the co-op my schduel is going to be packed If I'm going to graduate semi close to time, (I should be graduating this semester actually :P ) but I still have about 1.5 years left.

I was thinking it would be more beneficial to take classes such as computer graphics/A.I. and not mix it with Java because Java may be easy for me to learn, but any type of programming project will consume a lot of time and take it away from my 400 level courses.

I found this out this semester, I retook C++ (data structures) to refresh my memory, I have a 102% in the class but I find myself spending more time on that class than any of my higher level courses which isn't good becuase my 400 level class such as Computer Architecture I'm not doing too great.

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Originally Posted by CPUWizard

If at all possible, get in contact with some type of Mentor.

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My mentor actually told me not to take the java class and to just graduate and get it over with I wasn't sure if that was good advice or not. Because they just recently changed the curriculum at penn state to offer 2 courses in C++, 1 in java, 1 in C, then upper level courses.

But because I should be graduating this semester I am only required 2 course in C++ and upper level courses. I almost feel ripped off though thats why I wanted to take the java course.

Its odd how it works, the upper level courses assume you know C for instance for the operating system class and yet they never offered a course in C. They also assume you know java and yet they never offered a course in Java until now. A student brought this up and the professor just said well learn the language as well as do the projects. So I guess they are re-enforcing self teaching but I do agree, you can devlop bad coding habbits from it. But after taking this C++ course, it seems the professor is who was enforcing bad coding habbits.

But as a career when I graduate I don't want to end up programming device drivers/asm/C/VHDL/Verilog. I hate low level programming it bores me, OO design and abstraction I really enjoy so it looks like I should move towards Java/C#/.net so I can make sure I end up doing application devlopment and not low level programming.

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But after taking this C++ course, it seems the professor is who was enforcing bad coding habbits.

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Alas this is often too true. :cry: :mad:

That is why I recommended getting a Mentor, rather than talking to the faculty. [Although there re professors who have som real world experience, and know how things actually happen in the real world]