Just curious... given that it is no longer supported (support ended over 3 years ago March 31, 2005)
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Just curious... given that it is no longer supported (support ended over 3 years ago March 31, 2005)
Well, support for older software is one reason. Doesn't mean that the next version isn't in the works, though.
It'd be hard for a VB MVP to not use VB6, though. :)
David, you (and the other VB MVP's) I understand...Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
Also corporations with Enterprise Service Agreements still having to support VB6.0 application while they are developing replacements for VB9.0 or even 10.0...
But the "newbies" completely baffle me. To the best of my knowledge it is no longer possible to get a legal license for VB 6.0 from any channels.
Granted there may be a dozen people in the world who legally bought VB6.0 10 years ago, have had it sitting on their shelf for a decade, have not upgraded their computer in that time, and have finally decided to learn programing. But I think 12 people would actually be on the high side...
VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED.....
IF YOU ARE OFFENDED EASILY, PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS POST ;)
I really expressed myself, so no banning me.... please...........
He asked me why, so I told :D
Don't get me started on why vb6 is way better than the junked up garage collector with the easy to decompile hacked up piece of **** the .net is. I heard about people asking if their code got stolen and the answer is yes. vb6 is old, but so is c++ and they are both able to compile to native code, so get rid of p-code and stick with something that has proven time over time over time and still a darn good program language. I don't call vb.net the vb6 upgrade. It is nothing like its big brother ;). vb6 should have been vb6++ by now if you ask me. That is how good it is and was. That was my first program language and will be the happiest times of my life. You can take your .net framework and make a good project and send me the exe. I will then send your code back. Stupid p-code. You can think you are smart using the .net, but it does the coding for you. It is microsoft''s point, click, type and we will do the work for you :D No offense, but there was NO good option on the poll to respect vb6 at all. All you did was discriminant against vb6 users.
Have you even tried vb6? It was a milestone. It was a good achievement. Also vb6 runs fine under vista and vista sucks too. Vista is colored blinds that is a hippie :S Blue with blue-ish green with some pink-ish red and whatever else that hippie thought to put in that gui theme. omfg. I used windowblinds and found better ones than microsoft produced for vista :'(
Get rid of the .net and vista :(. You make me sad and also kinda sick.
No problem in expressing your self...
A few points...
1) I have been programming for well over 35 years. The first Basic I used was the original Dartmouth Basic back in 1973. I have also developed commercial applications in EVERY version of Visual Basic.
2) There is no "p-code" in .NET. Before execution EVERYTHING is ALWAYS compiled to native code. Granted the last pert happens just before execution, but it does happen and only happens once (per execution of the processs)
3) I have done many contracts reverse-engineering applications (always ethically!). With the correct experience and tools there is no more difficulty reverse engineering a VB 4,5,6 application than there is reverse engineering a .Net assembly. The exact same holds true for anything written in C++ (especially if you know which compiler was used).
4) Managed code is no more (or less) "Point and Click" than any other environment with an IDE that supports designers. On the otherhand, you can create ANY .Net application with nothing more than the operating system and the .Net runtime installed on your machine. [And yes, I have had to do this....]
5) VB 6 WAS a great product. I am not arguing that. But the downsides to using something thatis out of support is tremendous. In justunder 22 months, Microsoft "could" (although extremely doubtful they would) put out an update through automatic updates that would render EVERY (or ANY) program written using V6 (VB or C++), and it would NOT violate any terms or conditions. As a matter of corporate policy we stopped buying any product that was developed using V6 tools in 2004, our last existing one was removed from all systems in mid-2006.
6) Talking about the Visual Aspect of Vista (positively or negatively) is really just hyperbole. One fact stands clear. At the last security convention, MAC OSX fell to an attack within the first hour. Linux (Unbutu and RedHat enterprise) fell on the first day. Vista did not fall until the fourth day (almost after 6 hours AFTER security features were disabled!).
Something just came back to bite me this week. Seems a Windows Update killed off Capicom/VB6 support. Bad data for a space password?
Had to recompile to delete a statement, bypassing the setup security.
If anyone has seen this recently, ping back!
Using Crypto API??? http://forums.msdn.microsoft.com/en-...-4b8af6428cda/
Using Capicom with VB6. Oddly enough, the vbs script works.
Code:Option Explicit
Dim sSecretData
sSecretData = "Here is some very secret data."
' Build up the key
Dim wshNetwork, sComputerName
Set wshNetwork = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Network")
sComputerName = wshNetwork.ComputerName
Dim capEData
Set capEData = CreateObject("CAPICOM.EncryptedData")
capEData.Algorithm = 3 'Use 3DES
capEData.SetSecret sComputerName
capEData.Content = sSecretData
Dim sCipherText
sCipherText = capEData.Encrypt
capEData.Algorithm = 3
capEData.SetSecret sComputerName
capEData.Decrypt sCipherText
Dim sPlainText
sPlainText = capEData.Content
MsgBox "Original data: " & sSecretData & chr(13) _
& "Encrypted data: " & sCipherText & chr(13) _
& "Recoverd data: " & sPlainText
I have been using some form of basic for many years as well going back to the commodore 64 brand of basic, basica, GW-Basic, VB-Dos and VB 3,4,5,6
I use VB6 quite often still, partly because I am really used to using it and can turn out an app pretty quick when need be and largely because I have lots of projects to support that would just require way to much effort to convert.
I also use VB 2003 in a few projects and 2005 in most of my newer stuff soon to install and start using 2008 under Vista but have been dragging my feet on that one.
To the best of my knowledge vb6 is still available from Microsoft via MSDN. Visual studio 6 apparently is not due to a settlement with Sun over the Java deal. Yet both are avaiable from 3rd party retailers right now.
However EVERYTHING from MSDN is for development, evaluation and test. For example you can download Office (or use it from your CD/DVD to develop a program that utilizes Word Automation. However if you write a single document for actual use (a note to your mother), then you are in violation of the agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillAtwell
The same is true for the developer tools.
This has subtly changed in the past year as reflected in the pricing. For $10,000 (approx) you get the full MSDN for 1 year - WITH a valid SINGLE DEVELOPER / SINGLE MACHINE license for the Visual Studio 2008.
A few apps (like Office) are available for personal use thru the MSDN program. Nobody expects a developer to test in Word, but buy WordPerfect to write correspondence.
They fully expect anyone doing business to buy a full retail copy for doing business.Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
I have been through this in detail with the licensing department within Microsoft. Every machine (including each virtual machine that is used for anything other than evaluation) I own (I am a professional consultant) has a valid "retail" (albiet a good number or NFR) copy of the operating system, as well as licensed copies of each product that is used on that machine.
Just looked a the new gift that I got, and it says for any PERSONAL BUSINESS USE for Office Ultimate plus a half dozen others.
I disagree with the whole decompiling c++. Even if you know the compiler, you would have to reverse alot or just read asm unlike for the .net.. Vb.net doesn't even have a good name right now. It is c#.net that is getting the attention. The reason why I use vb6 is because I have it. I tried the .net and was going for c#. I created a simple program and my bro decompiled it. Why was I upset? Simple... What happen if I created a major program and didn't know I had to protect it. My cousin has a job in c#, so good for him. I suppose vb.net is ok to use, but it isn't like vb6 to me. I bet it is slower too.
Xp is old. They are pulling support(or was) for xp soon. Should I stop using it? Nope and I will not. I will turn to linux for good or mac os. I like my xp and will keep it until I am forced not to and microsoft policies are bad.
If you can reverse vb6 code, perhaps p-code was used. vb6 is the only one that supported to native code. It is easier to rewrite the code than to decompile it unless you know something I don't know. I know vb6 uses activex controls for their stuff.
Vista is a hyperbole, but besides that the reason vista didn't fall is because depite all the complaints about things being security problems, they said it wasn't and it was a rights problem. They pretty much gave them the right to do what they wanted even without the permission from the user, so that darn "ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS" and "DID YOU GIVE THIS PERMISSION I JUST ASKED ABOUT" policy came.....
Internet explorer 9 is the biggest virus/spam/trojan contributor. I know how to make a trojan downloader in vbscript and javascript. I wonder if it will work on vista...
I probably shouldn't use firefox because microsoft doesn't support it.
I could go on and on why I should use firefox, but I going to search the forums to see if anyone needs help
There is a reason why they are giving it out for free, so they can stiff you later and they are losing with how they strict they are.
VB5 supported native code as well
You'd be wrong there. I had an app that had to call 26 batch files to get semi-concurrent operation.Quote:
I bet it is slower too.
Using VB.Net, I can create individual threads and execute them at the same time.
Went down from 40 to 6 minutes. Not exactly 'slower'
$1,199 for the pro version subscription single user right now on thier site.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard
Also as I pointed out the products can be purchased from third party vendors, Amazon for example has VB6 and VS6 as do several other vendors. Surely you are not trying to tell us that if you buy these retail products that you are not allowed to use them for the very thing they were intended to do.
Even on the MSDN the lic says they are for development which is exactly what you do with VB develop applications which will later be used most likely by someone other than the person who wrote the program. If one were not allowed to do this then the program would be totally worthless.
Joeman
I agree with your two posts completely. I have nothing to add.
Very good answers.
A number of successful Accounting Application Companies felt committed to follow the new trends in development and invested heavily in Dot Net when it was first released. Little did they know that Microsoft would "re-invent" the technology with the release of VS 2005 and now VS 2008.
This has caused development to escalate -
a) Dramatically in Time
b) Dramatically in Cost
More concerning is that the technology not only cause a change in direction in development techniques, but also in the amount of harward you need to throw at it to make it work. This was all further exasperated by the release of Vista.
Some will not survive the experience (and lose millions) - you may say BAD LUCK - No.. its Microsoft LUCK - Pity MS got it wrong to start with. (But what should they care)
I have learned painfully that getting in on the 'NEW STUFF' too soon will only cause you pain - waste of time - waste of money. If its your own business this will mean something to you. If you work for someone who pays the bills regardless - why should you care ?
I work for myself so I have to care.
In the meantime, VB6 developers continued to live a reasonably normal life (not sure why they should be concerned about lack of support - there are no problems). Compare that to living with VISTA - totally supported and full of problems. (most of which are now sorted out)
I guess the question you asked should have been Why Dot Net ?
I hope you are not of the belief that ASP.NET is something to be admired - this has to be the great pack of rubbish ever presented to programmers.
And apart from the nice look of some of the controls I still am not sure why Dot Net can actually help make my life any easier, particularly with the pathetic help available in the IDE. I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO ONCE GET HELP WITH A SIMPLE EXAMPLE FOR ANYTHING. (from the IDE)
VB6 on the other hand was easy to learn as it was full of examples.
Perhaps Dot Net will be fine in about another 5 years when Microsoft get their act together in the HELP department and settle the operating systems that should run it - In the mean time WHO NEEDS PROBLEMS ?
OH, I do believe that a VB6 Application runs considerable faster than a DOT Net Application (but then I may be wrong).
I know I am not wrong - I demonstrated a DOT NET application to client, then showed him the same thing in VB6 (Accounting stuff). He said "How is it that your system is so responsive compared to the Dot Net ? DUH ?
Dot Net Applications perform as though they are constipated in my experience.
My most amusing experience was to try to create an ASP.NET application - admitedly I had to learn ASP.Net (Hence my previous biased comments). I battled with it for about 6 months with inconsistent display results and all the problems you may well understand.
In the end I gave up and wrote the application in 3 days using Terminal Services on a VB6 Application. OK - all that proves is that I can program much faster in VB6 than in ASP.NET - SO ????? Why should one bash their head on the Dot Net wall when there is no pain in an alternative.
What about Web Services ? I work with a company which exported Tab Delimitted files from a system to be processed. It took 2.5 minutes to do the export. Along came web services - it now takes 35 minutes to achieve the same export - DUH ?
Technically the application "may" be a "little" more flexible - practically it is now an academic exercise in Dot Net principles which the company defends as being cutting edge technology (another DUH??)
"I used to have a jet - Now I use a horse and cart " (with one hell of a stubborn horse ! )
Dot net has its pros and cons for sure. There are some things that you can do with VB.net that you can not do in VB6, and some that are easy in VB6 and extremely hard in dot net.
A customer asked me to write an application for a MC1000 hadheld device running windows ce 4.x. One of the requirements was to print a barcode label on a portable printer. I said sure no problem.
How was I to know that they had not put any serial support into VB 2003? I was shocked and left to scramble for a solution which eventually came in the way of a third party control that I had to purchase to do the job. They did add serial support back into VB 2005 but it does not support CE 4.x Right now I have to have 2 machines with 3 versions of VB between them in order to do my job due to the fact that 2003 does not support CE 5 and 2005 does not support anything older than 5 also because the two do not work properly on the same pc, or at east not on the same OS.
A major gripe I have is the excessive time it takes to load the dot net ide and a project. I even upgraded my system to a dual core and 2 gigs of ram with Sata II HD and still loads very slowly. I also get errors in the IDE often when changing between the code and design windows on a form. The errors are not fatal but are really agravating and result in longer development times.
On the other hand after using dot net I find that I am always trying to use my scroller wheel in vb6 and it does not work. Which is agravating but not that big a deal.
I actually like both vb6 and dot net and will continue to use both currently 2005 on anything where I need to use it or where it is as easy or almost as easy to do in the dot net but still doing lots of stuff in VB6 as well and I wish I could get rid of 2003 but at present can not do so do to the way they handled the CE 4.x and 5.x situtations.
I've been doing a LOT more with VS2008 than the prior version, that I have used, to some extent.
Two years ago, the documentation was a lot worse than it is today. I can find things pretty easily.
I'll have to disagree on the ASP.Net part also. There is a lot of samples out there. I edit my site with VS2008, or Expressions Web, depending on the task.
As for support, look back to my VB6 Capicom post. I want to support that product, but there seems to alternative but to disable the security that I built into the app a few years ago.
Odd that it doesn't work in the IDE as well.
I have 2008 but not installed yet. Waiting on some hardware so I can install it on a new system. Learned my lesson a long time ago about installing new software on a development machine :mad:
Anyway for those who use 2008 do you know what versions of Windows Mobile and/or CE.Net it supports?
I know 2003 does not support CE.Net 5.0 and 2005 does not support CE.Net 4.x where both support PPC and WM.
I wonder what the chance is that 2008 supports both 4.x and 5.0 as well as the PPC and WM platforms?
There is a very easy fix for that. So this is not problem anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillAtwell
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/837910
http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS2201413774.htmlQuote:
Anyway for those who use 2008 do you know what versions of Windows Mobile and/or CE.Net it supports?
Well, this topic has been beaten to death in other threads, and one fact which remains is that .net can be so easily decompiled, that it just isn't good for developing applications for the home PC market. That is of course unless you want to give your work away for free.
I still say .net is an alternative to Java, as both are more or less suited for the same markets. A company who has in-house programmers writing stuff for internal use may want to use it. A company developing applications for wide distribution is a different story.
As for VB6 support, what concerns me is that the finished product runs on the typical home PC, and not only do they still run, but will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. There doesn't seem to be such a need to update or patch VB6 from my prospective. Access to the win32 API allows VB6 to take advantage of new features and functions of the OS.
I'm sure at some point I'll move on to some other programming language, but it won't be .net. More like C++, Delphi, or one of the many Basic variants out there.
Thanks for all of of the input. I do see that most are long-time users so my poll did not attract a big part of what I was interested in...People who are starting to use VB6.0 for development.
I do find alot of the criticism of .Net very interesting, as well as conflicting with my own professional experience [For those unaware I have run a software consulting from in New York since 1984 and have been delivering over 90% .Net based solutions for the past 5-6 years].
When properly used, the security features of .NET back it much harder to tamper with an application. Yes, "out of the box" .Net code is easier for a novice to reverse engineer the code. But for a professional, that really makes no difference. Look at the gaming industry, (nearly) all the code is by necessity highly optimized native code, yet there are tens of thousands of "hacks", "cheats", "hooks" that alter the behaviour of the game.
If these were financial programs the same result would yield (and has yielded) disaster.
I wonder....
How many of the people here have ever written a secure (ie passing DoD standards and qualifications) program in their life???
How many people use Code Access Security when writing .Net Code?
How many people have even read "Writing Secure Code"? ISBN 0-7356-1722
How many people DRM encrypt their application prior to deployment and use Ring 0 security and authorization?
How many people think they have a (native) program that I could not tamer with to alter its behavour?
With a good memory editor and a little knowledge of how to use it one can alter the behaviour of pretty much any program in some way or another. The most common thing done in games is to change the amount of money a player has onhand or to change some other numeric value such as vital stats, experience, or some such thing. Quite often these changes do not actually happen to the exe at all but the save game files instead and most often the memory which then saves it to the save game file.
However hacking the memory of a pc or even an exe directly is quite a bit different than decompiling the program.
The last time I tried to decompile something it was a VB 3 program which was written by a former employee who took the source code with him when he left. The program was full of bugs and had to be updated and eventually rewritten but the first step was to decompile the exe and get as much useful code from it as possible. It was not very hard to decompile VB3 programs though it left you with no identifiable variable names and took a while to figure out what was going on.
Another poll option can be added, entitled, "Why Not ¿"
I'm using VB 6, VB 2003, 2005, 2008 on my Vista machine at home without any hassles. In anyone of them, I can make stuff that works and do what it is supposed to. So what .NET is newer and VB 6 older, so what if support for VB 6 is getting less and less. I still feel that if you know any of these products well enough, you can do what you need. I've got hundreds of VB 6 apps still running without hassles, as so, I've got hundreds of VB.NET apps working, and doing what they're supposed to.
I know some may disagree with my point of view, and you're entitled to, but I'm not going to argue about which has disadvantages and advantages. Each one has its own pros and cons, accept it, as long as you get done what you get paid for ;)
My 2 cents..
I have simmular sentiments to Hannes about VB6 .. Spent almost 10 years getting to know VB4 5 & 6, and can quickly do alot of things with it.
While working with VB.NET, i'm not that up to date with all the available methods and procedures to complete certain tasks with it, i tend to fall back onto VB6 , something i know...
However i do take time to learn how to conplete the task in .NET and eventully will stop using VB6, how ever sometimes the project deadline does not allocate time for a learning curve...
My 2 cents too...
Hannes, Gremmy...
I do understand where you are coming from...at least partially.
Heck, I still use Visual C++ 1.52. (It was the last compiler that would generate 16 it code - which I use on some controllers).
But....
1) Why would anyone start LEARN from something that is obsolete...
and
2) Why would anyone take the risk (as a developer or customer) of being in a totally unsupported position, when there are viable alternatives? Just knowing that on any given day, things could stop working, and the vendor could say "Yup...It does not work anymore, sorry we are not going to help you", would give me cause for concern....
Obviously that can't be. As for my Encryption problem. Code worked in VB6 for years (in the IDE and compiled). Sometime within the past few months, something changed! When I issue the .Decrypt() command (part of capicom)Quote:
I still feel that if you know any of these products well enough
I pass it a string, and get 'BAD DATA'.
How much time should I spend on this? Sure, I'd like a solution, but it's far easier to disable the feature to have the app work (without a password for the setup function)
Not sure what you are using .NET for, but my application area is Accounting ERP Systems
The typical symptom I hear in Accounting Systems developed in .NET is the slowness of it all
Here are some very recent comments on the MS Accounting 2008 package (viz the users forum)
If Microsoft cant get it right, then what hope have we got ?
http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...a-92d38428354b
If it takes 20 minutes to print 10 documents, we may as well go back to pencil and paper.
Now you will say - Oh, but the program has not been optimised properly or the server is not balanced ... blah blah
The point is ... if you have such a sensitive sytem that just gives up the ghost as it chooses, then where is the merit in using it for real production work.
I spent several months developing a new Accounting Application in VB.Net but in the end just gave up as it ran too slowly -
ie, User Experience - COMPLETE FRUSTRATION
At least with VB6 and most other languages / platforms, you know how its going to respond.
1) The referenced thread has NOTHING to do with .Net
2) An experienced developer knows EXACTLY what they will get regardless of language.
3) I have not seen a single instance (and have offered cash rewards) for performance differences (of a meaningful nature) directly attributable to an application written in .NET. In the vast majority of cases, the developer simply did not have a clue of what they were doing.
I often equate it to driving a car (VB6) vs. Flying a Plane (any .Net). Being qualified in one does not qualify you in the other (any more than being an expert Dartmouth Basic programmer will give you a clue about Visual Basic).
And it is definately true that there are things you can do with VB.Net that you can not do with VB6. But it is UNTRUE that there is a single thing that can be accomplished using VB6.0 that is impossible to accomplish using VB.Net.
ps: Remember the "B" in Basic stands for Beginner's :p
How about unmanaged code? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard
That's bound to spark a few flames...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard
Sure...I have won bets on this one a few times....carry to risk some cash?Quote:
Originally Posted by WizBang
But what I was referring to was more along the lines of "Write a program that will.....". In other words a functional type specification leaving the implementation details to the language.
While my intentions on this thread are serious, the above was intended to prevoke. ;)Quote:
That's bound to spark a few flames...
BASIC
Beginners
All-purpose
Symbolic
Instruction
Code
.
Visual, Generaly indicates that it's windows based, IE. has a GUI (Graphic Users Interface)..
And i do see where CPU's concerns are ... Why start NEW Programmers in VB6.
If They dint know how to do something in .NET they still wont know how to do it in VB6.. so why teach VB6.. rather teach the Newb the .NET way from the start.. Also Job positions are now almost all .NET orientated.. VB6 gets you a nod but that is about all..
Gives the Newbs a fighting chance... ;)
You didn't run into issues between 2003 and 2005? Are they installed where both are available at the same time?Quote:
Originally Posted by HanneSThEGreaT
I develop apps for handheld devices and what I ran into was that the ,net sdks for the devices would not show up in both. I would have the option to add the references in 2003 but not in 2005 and if I remember correctly when I installed 2005 I got a message telling me that I should uninstall 2003 first or some things may not work as expected.
So I am curious what configuration you have and if you have did anything with mobile devices Motorola and Symbol especially as those are the ones I ran into issues with.
I didn't hit that specific issue, as I developed a practice of using specific virtual machines for each project developement environment. Saves LOTS of hassles (and well worth the extra licenses). This is totally independant of the ".Net issues", just a stable programming practice...
Yes, there are better alternatives. It is called moving away from restriction and microsoft's support act. They probably will keep pulling support until they make everyone update.Quote:
2) Why would anyone take the risk (as a developer or customer) of being in a totally unsupported position, when there are viable alternatives? Just knowing that on any given day, things could stop working, and the vendor could say "Yup...It does not work anymore, sorry we are not going to help you", would give me cause for concern....
I don't know why people would even want to learn the .net language because there are better alternatives like you said.
I would recommend c++ because you can compile it and it is faster than most languages.
I would recommend java before the .net because it is like c++ and it is more complete for easily development and for cross platform and it has proven itself.
I am surprised because the .net is so simple..... and simple does come with a price against speed.Quote:
3) I have not seen a single instance (and have offered cash rewards) for performance differences (of a meaningful nature) directly attributable to an application written in .NET. In the vast majority of cases, the developer simply did not have a clue of what they were doing.
Oh really??? try to compile to machine code! oh you can't do that in vb.net... really?? duh!!!Quote:
And it is definitely true that there are things you can do with VB.Net that you can not do with VB6. But it is UNTRUE that there is a single thing that can be accomplished using VB6.0 that is impossible to accomplish using VB.Net.
I don't need that since I don't use the .net.Quote:
I wonder....
How many of the people here have ever written a secure (ie passing DoD standards and qualifications) program in their life???
How many people use Code Access Security when writing .Net Code?
How many people have even read "Writing Secure Code"? ISBN 0-7356-1722
How many people DRM encrypt their application prior to deployment and use Ring 0 security and authorization?
Now I never said you can't alter its behavior, but that is a far cry from decompiling. I have made many things act different, but I never once looked at its source code. Major differences there. That isn't the same at all.Quote:
How many people think they have a (native) program that I could not tamer with to alter its Behavior?
Also I didn't get into the .net because everytime I wanted to all the tutorials where split up from vs 2003, vs 2005 and vs 2008. They don't work with each other very well. Now what is so different now? They will continue this rampage.
Vb6 will work until vista is obsolete. If they do pull support to where it won't run on vista, I am going to be mad.
Thank you for your support. I am glad someone shares the same opinion .Quote:
Originally Posted by BytePtr
Joeman
I agree with your two posts completely. I have nothing to add.
Very good answers.
Why would you want to use .net?
Maybe because you don't know better?
I like vb6 because my code can't be decompiled.
There are way better programming languages out there that looks
nicer and runs faster.
For ex... Real basic it works on Mac, Linux and windows.
It compiles to machine code for each platform :D
and it is very close to vb6 and has a tool that will
covert your vb6 project for you.
I would tell all the newbies to start with vb6 or realbasic for
their first language before I would lead them down the wrong road
with the .net.
Here are some links if you would like to steal someone's souce code that
programmed in the .net http://www.netdecompiler.com/.
Here is a link where you don't need to download any software to decomplie
someone's source code. All you have to do is upload it and I don't think it
can get any easier than that http://www.remotesoft.com/salamander/.
I think the reason that the newbies are learning vb6 is because they
read about this stuff on forums and learn better than to use
the .net or maybe they have a brain in their head. ;)
I know things quite well thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityIsForLocos
(Let's see 8000+ posts here (over 6000 of them on native C++ topics), A total of over 30,000 across public forums (80% not related to Microsoft products, 35+ years experience developing software, the president of one of only 3 independant consulting firms in all of New York City that has been in continous profitable operation since 1985)
It still amazes me though how many people truely are cluelss...
1) The book Writing Secure Code does not even MENTION .Net. except as a foot note in two chapters.
2) ALL .Net does ALWAYS compile 100% to native code. The default is to do it at first execution so it can be optimized for the current machine, but it can be done by the vendor.
3) The silly focus on de-compiling. NONE of the significant software vendors (who produce .Net based products) are even bothering to obsfucate. They realize that "Security by Obscurity" is nothing but Window Dressing, and that is ALL that a (normal) native applicaion does. Yes it will slow down a 3-5 year old, but to a professional, there is no significant difference in reverse engineering native C++ application than there is in reverse engineering a .Net application where the variables are in a language other than ones native tongue.
I didn't read the book and I know very well it doesn't compile to native for the exe. sorry I just won't believe. If you know asm, good for you, but asm is not going to be converted back to the original source code at all period.
VBA – which is a VB6 copycat – is still MS-Office’s primary language and it seems to me this will go on for many years to come. At least in my area, I realized, there is big market potentials for programmers who can bring information to customers’ desk directly from their network servers using MS Office.
A good command of VBA assures you a good slice of the market. A good command of VB6 is a good command of VBA.
VBA is a scripting language, not a programming lang..
VBA's runtime is office, and has evolved with office.
There are many simularities between VBA and VB6, however thats where it ends.
Even a good knowledge of VB.NET will assist in VBA ..
Gremmy
Then kindly explain the following as the DEFAULT generated information...Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeman
ps: Who ever cared about "original" source code. In fact how could you ever detect it? If I gave you two programs in any language that functioned exactly identically, what qualification would you use to determh was "origiinal"?Code:--- C:\Src\AspenLawStudydesk 3.x.x.x\AspenLawStudyDesk.UnitTesting\ConsoleApplication1\Program.cs
using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Text;
namespace ConsoleApplication1
{
class Program
{
static void Main(string[] args)
{
00000000 push ebp
00000001 mov ebp,esp
00000003 push edi
00000004 push esi
00000005 push ebx
00000006 sub esp,30h
00000009 xor eax,eax
0000000b mov dword ptr [ebp-10h],eax
0000000e xor eax,eax
00000010 mov dword ptr [ebp-1Ch],eax
00000013 mov dword ptr [ebp-3Ch],ecx
00000016 cmp dword ptr ds:[00918568h],0
0000001d je 00000024
0000001f call 794C717F
00000024 nop
Console.WriteLine("Hello World");
00000025 mov ecx,dword ptr ds:[0228307Ch]
0000002b call 78788B8C
00000030 nop
}
00000031 nop
00000032 lea esp,[ebp-0Ch]
00000035 pop ebx
00000036 pop esi
00000037 pop edi
00000038 pop ebp
00000039 ret
VB 2003, 2005 and 2008 are installed on the same machine, and I can use anyone at any time :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WillAtwell
To be honest, I haven't got much experience with the .NET Compact Framework, so I haven't dealt with mobile applications, apart from doing something with my Nokia - That's about it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WillAtwell
Back on this debate about why VB 6:
I do agree that newbies should rather start with .NET ( even if it is just .NET 1.1 ), but, with old folk already experienced with VB 6 - if they choose to continue with VB 6, it's up to them - nothing said here in this thread would really convince them to change to .NET, or am I wrong ¿
And someone said that you cannot do everything in VB 6 which .NET can do, that's partly right, IMHO.
Why is VB 6 working on Vista then ¿
If you know your language well enough, you can do almost anything you need, isn't it ¿ I can do a program in .NET, and in VB 6, I can do the exact same, isn't that strange :p
Do you have any experience coding with WPF?Quote:
Originally Posted by HanneSThEGreaT
I agree that new comers would be best served learning dot net.
For many of us VB6 is comfortable and we know many tricks so it is natural to want to use it where suitable. My first focus in dot net was the mobile devices where vb6 falls way short and in creating windows services as well. As for a standard exe that will run on the PC I am inclined to go with VB6 most of the time but am slowly moving more and more to dot net and begining to pile of some handy re-usable routines.
Yes I do, what sort of question is that ¿ :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay
If you really want to get technical, obviously WPF is not supported in VB 6 ( that is general knowledge already isn't it ¿ )
What I meant ( I thought it was quite clear ) is that if you know your language well enough, you can do anything with it - agree ¿
WPF etc. aren't even supported in .NET Framework 1.1. We are talking about .NET in general.
I asked the question because without having experience coding in the later .Net frameworks a dev can't really understand what is being missed by staying with the 10 year old environment.
To me one of the best features of .Net (and let's just jump to 2.0, 3.0, 3.5 and beyond and forget talking about 1.0 or 1.1) is how integrated the programming environment is compared to programming with the 'technology islands' of the past.
By technology islands, I mean having to learn the various types of technologies in order to be able to produce a professional application - things like COM, DirectX, Network api's, Printing api's, GDI, and so on.
.Net just brings these disparate technologies into a more cohesive coding environment.
Unfortunately learning new technologies requires devs to step out of the comfort zone and pick up on new concepts and approaches.
Now look at a guy like TheCPUWizard who has been in business for 35 years and imagine if he didn't stay current with new technologies? Do you think he would still be in business today if he only knew the languages/techniques that he learned in the first 5 years?
IMO, as a developer you need to stay current with the latest technologies; otherwise you are going to find that work is harder to find.