Thread topicallity, accuracy and integrity....

It was recommended that I post this question here to solicit feedback from the community....

Many times a thread will be started with a specific question [if wer are so lucky that the initial posting is specific and provides the necessary information].

During the replies a number of conditions may occur:

1) Information not directly related to the original question is posted (either by the original poster or by someone else)

2) Information that does not conform to accepted "best practices" may be posted which, while meeting the the OP's requirement is "not how it should be done"

3) Information which is downright incorrect is posted (this is probably the rarest of the situations under consideration.

The question is:

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"Given one of the three cases above have already occured on a thread, how should members reply?

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Going into details that are not germaine to the OP's question can easily be distracting or overwhelming, but what about the impact on the thousands of people who will search CodeGuru over the coming years and find this "less than ideal" information???

Where is the "Best Value" obtained in both adressing the OP's current needs and the benefit of the community at large over an extended period of time???

Looking forward to hearing peoples thoughts....

[mine should be pretty obvious from my posting habits, so I intend to be a "silent observer" for a while... :wave::wave:

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

Going into details that are not germaine to the OP's question can easily be distracting or overwhelming, but what about the impact on the thousands of people who will search CodeGuru over the coming years and find this "less than ideal" information???

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Hm.. the first thought that came to mind, given the current situation is, do people bother to search prior to asking at all? :D:D

Anyways, assuming people do search and bump into threads that contain a lot of all sorts of information, am not sure how it can be resolved. Often, it is easy to point out the dead wrong ones and it is our responsibility to do so with an explanation of why ( without the why, it becomes just another opinion ) . But the other 2 types can be hard to pin point. Who really decides if the post is slightly off topic. It needs someone with infinite knowledge to be able to reliably say so. The problem becomes even worse because sometimes, even if people did have a point and posted something that appears to be off-topic, won't come back to clarify if someone requests for one. Maybe they did have a point, albeit, something beyond the rest of the visitors.

I personally feel that when something is found to be wrong or misleading, it has to be corrected. It is a responsibility. However, it also helps if one explains why. It also helps if someone is held wrong, they sportively admit it if someone pointed it was wrong convincingly.

I tend to agree with Kiran. If something is downright wrong, it's a responsibility to correct it. Everything else, however, is probably more like an opinion. Best practices are more like "rules of thumb", and thus can be broken for any reason or no reason at all. They are thus a matter of opinion. Likewise, whether a reply is truly off-topic also seems to be a matter of opinion.

And of course you know the old joke about the part of the anatomy that most closely resembles an opinion: "... everyone has one and they all stink..."

PS: I also agree that only very few people tend to search before they post.

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

It was recommended that I post this question here to solicit feedback from the community....

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Okay here are my opinions to each of the circumstances...

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

1) Information not directly related to the original question is posted (either by the original poster or by someone else)

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This is probably the most common 'problem' .. I've seen threads go way off the posted question with the OP using that one thread to solve a dozen problems on his project, to threads where someone else post a seemingly related question on the same thread..

The general consenses that i've seen is to politely ask the person to post a new thread, or else often a mod comes in and splits the thread..

My opinion is that of.. "One thread, One question, Many solutions." There are some fantastic threads where the disccution is directly related to the problem with, "First try this.. didn't work.. ok Try this then ... etc.." These threads are essentially what you want to be in search results..

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

2) Information that does not conform to accepted "best practices" may be posted which, while meeting the the OP's requirement is "not how it should be done"

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Here is the conundrum.. the solution often depends on the OP's level of knowledge ..
One example - Opening a binary data file ... depending of the op's level.

Basic skills. - Use "OPEN Filename FOR BINARY AS #1"

Moderate skills - Use FSO or API's ...

There are three solutions to open and read datafiles..

However, I do understand what you mean by Best practice , and it does not mean how you (or anyone) would specifically do it, it's more of a general way of performing tasks. (oops my mind is blank, cant think right)

I have seen some solutions that sometimes even a beginner will think, "What the #$@% !".

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

3) Information which is downright incorrect is posted (this is probably the rarest of the situations under consideration.

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This is the worst, and i know that i'm often guilty of posting incorrect info, mostly because of speed reading the question, and not getting all the info provided right, or because of confustion between two or more languages..

However, if noticed i will either edit and repair the post, or simply admit to my mistake and accept the consequences..

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

Going into details that are not germaine to the OP's question can easily be distracting or overwhelming, but what about the impact on the thousands of people who will search CodeGuru over the coming years and find this "less than ideal" information???

Where is the "Best Value" obtained in both adressing the OP's current needs and the benefit of the community at large over an extended period of time???

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The best that we could do is to positively (4's or 5's) thread rate thread's who's contents are "Ideal" and also add tags to better the search results. and negatively (1's) rate less than ideal threads.


Gremmy..

Here are some thoughts on the subject:

To me, it really boils down to answering the questions in the simplest manner.

Not that I always do this, but I believe it's important to judge the abilities of the OP in answering questions.

Sometimes the OP isn't looking for the 'best' or 'best practice' kind of answer because they may not have the skill to understand it on that level. A simple example that comes to mind is when a question is asked about using the XmlDocument in C#. Usually a cleaner, best practice approach is to use XmlSerialization, but again it depends on the level of the OP. I know I have spent quite a bit of time showing one particular OP how to perform the serialization, included modified source code, only to have the OP post a new thread about 2 weeks later that made me understand he didn't get it. In the second thread, I created yet another sample app and remember thinking it's not really worth it to spend so much time.

I'm beginning to think that including sample apps as I have done in the past may not be worth it. I look at the download count for the attachment and have noticed that I don't get too many downloads (< 10) for an app that I've spent 2 hours coding up. I spend all that time and it doesn't really seem worth it.

Folks don't really seem to give points too often either. As far as points, I get most of my points of late from George2 when he's around. It's kind of ironic because I usually torture George a bit when he asks the inane questions (but he still gives me points :-) ).

In keeping with the simplest answering approach, I think it's important not to let the original question get dragged off topic with separate detailed discussions. Years ago Sid and I used to do this (probably more my fault than Sid's). Sure on a purely technical sense we both may have been correct (or the differences certainly weren't worth arguing about), but I doubt our discussions were any real benefit to the original question(s).

I imagine it must be difficult for a newbe to have to wade through 3 pages of a 'side' discussion trying to understand enough to pick out answers to his/her question. I believe very few people benefit from this - maybe the top folks on this site, but they probably don't need to read about it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Arjay

I'm beginning to think that including sample apps as I have done in the past may not be worth it. I look at the download count for the attachment and have noticed that I don't get too many downloads (< 10) for an app that I've spent 2 hours coding up. I spend all that time and it doesn't really seem worth it.

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IMO, don't rush the judgement. If you felt that it was useful to attach it. So be it. Don't look at the download count. You'll be amazed how many times I have got PMs, emails from people just saying "BTW, thanks for posting that information in that thread. It saved my day" and am sure there are many that didn't specifically email. Just feels good to know that somewhere someone finds some use for it.

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Originally Posted by Arjay

but I doubt our discussions were any real benefit to the original question(s).

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Hard to say if they are useless. Maybe not for the OP, but someone who bumps into the post later on could find the discussion useful. So, if iit's not insanely off-topic, like discussing the current economic situation, I don't see it always as a bad sign.

Anyway, just my 2 cents..

Arjay - If you take time to write some code that helps solve a poster's issue, then I suggest taking 15 more minutes to convert your post to an article with the code presented and submit it to the main site. If you tell Susan that it is a solution for someone in the forums, she can do a super quick review and post it "unedited" quickly to the article portion of the Codeguru site.

One of the issues I think we are trying to discuss in this thread is the concept of "correctness" and whether a thread should be corrected to maintain accuracy. Let's consider an example. Say a person posts the following:

I need to color the sky in my picture. What color do I use?

What is the answer?

Is it "blue"?

But.... that isn't really correct. The sky isn't blue. It appears blue many times, but really is that its true color, or just the color you happen to see - and only see at certain times? At night it -appears- black. In the evenings it can be all sorts of colors. Of course, when I said sky, did I mean on earth? On the moon, the "sky" is black.

I could go on.... and in many of our threads the conversation does go on, and on, and on....

If the original poster is a scientist looking at planet X in some other solar system, then the long discussion might be valid. But most of the time, this type of question is more likely to come from a 4 year old just trying to color a picture. For them, the answer is really pretty simple. 90% of the time it is "blue". Of course, you might ask a simple question of "is it day or night? Beyond that anything else said is noise.

It seems that many threads on this forum take a question like the color of the sky and turn them into discussions of varying quantites of oxygen versus other elements.....

In my opinion - I agree with Arjay in that we really have to take the original poster into consideration. We need to tone the answers to what they are looking to understand. Sometimes, we twist the truth a bit and say the sky is "blue" even though it really only *appears* blue. If we want to get into the finer accuracies of the question, best to spin off a new thread.

Brad!

(When I say blue, I mean Red 0, Green 128, Blue 255 with a hue of 140, saturation of 240, and lum of 120. --> I wouldn't want this thread to spin off into a discussion of what exactly did I mean when I said blue.... ) ;)

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Originally Posted by kirants

IMO, don't rush the judgement. If you felt that it was useful to attach it. So be it. Don't look at the download count. You'll be amazed how many times I have got PMs, emails from people just saying "BTW, thanks for posting that information in that thread. It saved my day" and am sure there are many that didn't specifically email. Just feels good to know that somewhere someone finds some use for it.

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I do get an occasional PM as well, just not too often. I'm more likely to continue if it seems folks are getting some benefit from them.

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Originally Posted by kirants

Hard to say if they are useless. Maybe not for the OP, but someone who bumps into the post later on could find the discussion useful. So, if iit's not insanely off-topic, like discussing the current economic situation, I don't see it always as a bad sign.

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Just to be clear, I'm talking about the situation where a newbie poster has asked a relatively simple question, gets a reply and then another person replies which slightly contradicts the first reply. Then the thread goes off on a tangent debating the nuances of the 'solution'. The discussion may not be strictly off-topic but it may be irrelevant in terms of the original question (especially when the OP isn't participating). Perhaps it would be better to move the discussion to a new thread?

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Originally Posted by Arjay

The discussion may not be strictly off-topic but it may be irrelevant in terms of the original question (especially when the OP isn't participating). Perhaps it would be better to move the discussion to a new thread?

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Absolutely! :)

Cpu sent me a pm and asked me to respond in this thread.

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I am actually most interested in thoughts regarding threads that ALREADY has one or more posts with "issues"....

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I guess it depends on the degree of 'issues'. Using Brad's "sky is blue example", if the general answer of 'blue' gets the job done, then I'd say there's no point of going into more detail unless the OP asks for more detail (hue, saturation, etc.).

If a response is obviously wrong (like the sky is white), then it probably should be corrected in a non-personal manner.

Otherwise, more detail in the original thread may cause confusion so perhaps a separate thread would be in order (maybe titled "The benefits of 140 hue over 138")? A link to the new thread can be included in the original thread, so if any subsequent readers are interested they can follow the new discussion and others reviewing can get the quick answer.

Since we hit 10 replies, and I have been mentioned....

#1 Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts.....

#2 While I think there is a general agreement on what should happen on a thread, I think the issue of "What to do AFTER a thread has 'encountered one of the issues' is still pretty open.

Yes, the moderators can split a thread, but their time (GREATLY APPRECIATED) is limited.

One of the aspects of a forum is the linear nature (based on time of post) in most views. Consider this in comparision to "News Groups" where it is always obvious which response a comment is in reference to. In that environment, one will often find "branches" that grow in different directions.

I am going to go through some recent threads later to find an actual example but for now consider:

Member #1: How can I accomplish "xxxx"

Member #2: Here is a sample using an std::vector. Code compiles, runs, and givens the correct answer, but is flawed because a temporary (which just didnt happen to get overwritten is use)

Members: {Comments on sample, but NOT catching the bug, rather covering differences in list , vs vector vs map....}

Member #1: Sorry this must be in "C"...

Member #3: Here is a sample again compiles and runs but has a memory leak

Members: That can be improved from an O(n^2) to an O(n) with the following code (new sample that works well and is valid and answers OP questions.

Now the posts from "member #2" and "member #3" are both still there, both are WRONG (ie contain hidden bugs)...but the OP has the answer from the final posts...

Do we simply allow the bug ridden code to remain forever without so much as a comment???

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

Do we simply allow the bug ridden code to remain forever without so much as a comment???

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I would say yes to leave the buggy code, but sure leave a comment that the code is buggy. If we try to moderate it anymore, it becomes unmanageable. Do we trust Wikipedia for all the information in there? Not me. But it is a good starting point.

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Originally Posted by kirants

I would say yes to leave the buggy code, but sure leave a comment that the code is buggy.

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I am NOT suggesting editing the existing post...it is impossible for a non-moderator to do to anothers post anyway.

But the very act of adding a new reply, will likely trigger additional discussion about that particular aspect......

While I do not see this as a problem, it does account for a percentage of the "wandering" threads....

I guess it depends on whether the buggy code is an obvious problem.

Code:

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class Foo
{
  ...
};

int void Main( )
{
  Foe foo;
  foo.DoSomething( );

  return 0;
}

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Sure, the code above won't compile, but it gets the point across and hopefully the user will catch the error (well all but the most beginning coder should catch the compiler error).

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Originally Posted by Arjay

I guess it depends on whether the buggy code is an obvious problem.<snip></snip>Sure, the code above won't compile, but it gets the point across and hopefully the user will catch the error (well all but the most beginning coder should catch the compiler error).

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Typos, like that (unless pointed out immediately) are unlikely to cause problems even if totally ignored...

But...AS I posted...

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Code compiles, runs, and givens the correct answer, but is flawed because a temporary (which just didnt happen to get overwritten is use)

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It could be run for a long time without this error being exposed, but a simple re-org of the code would (possibly) break it.

Perfect actual case: http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465523

The posted code appears to have a common and potentially severe problem, in that the SQLConnection is not Disposed at all..let alone in a reliable fashion.

Given that failure to properly handle objects implementing IDisposable is one of the leading reasons for .NET performance issues, I believe this to be an important point....

...but it does not relate SPECIFICALLY to the asked question....

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A student knows that they need guidance above what they are getting from their teacher. They approach a person to tutor/mentor them, and the person agrees. The mentor knows what is required to excel in the course of study.

The student listens carefully to the mentor, and after a period of time, the mentor tell the student that they have learned all that they need.

The student takes the test, and accurately follows everything he learned from the mentor.

Later the student is shocked to learn that they got a mediocre or poor grade, and returns to the mentor...

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a) The mentor must admit that he failed the student?

or

b) The mentor chastizes the student for not asking the "right" questions.

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

The posted code appears to have a common and potentially severe problem, in that the SQLConnection is not Disposed at all..let alone in a reliable fashion.

Given that failure to properly handle objects implementing IDisposable is one of the leading reasons for .NET performance issues, I believe this to be an important point....

...but it does not relate SPECIFICALLY to the asked question....

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Well it doesn't get called in the exception case, but we don't know for sure for the normal case because the code snippet isn't complete.

I've suggested using a 'using' block as an alternate approach without explaining that Dispose gets called which calls Close(). I showed the 'using' approach to mainly clean up the code as the OP's code is horrible.

I mainly included a different approach to better help the user track down his problem (which is quite simple to do with slightly different code). I didn't get into any performance issues because [imo] it's not relevant to the question. If he asks about performance, then we can address that.

Although it's important

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

a) The mentor must admit that he failed the student?

or

b) The mentor chastizes the student for not asking the "right" questions.

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I don't see how this applies to this forum. I see those who answer questions here as someone merely offering suggestions rather than being in a mentoring role.

What I usually do is :
I will post a reply to a thread, sometimes it is hard to 100&#37; "guess" the level of the OP's knowledge, sometimes ( based on the question it is not ). If my reply was helpful, it was helpful to the OP, if my reply was totally incorrect ( which happens to all of us ), I trust that another member would set it right - that is how it supposed to work vice versa. Now, if my post was half - way correct ( granted it still may not be fine ), and someone comments on it, I expect the person to at least say why was it wrong, otherwise, neither me or the OP will ever know why it was wrong, what could have been done otherwise etc.
I won't go and edit my post, simply because it was wrong - I've seen many a member do this, giving the illusion that he / she is perfect. I doubt newbies would judge a person if he / she has made some mistakes on the forum - I think it makes us all human.

I sometimes like to attach samples to members, especially if it was something I found interesting ( that is where most of my ideas for my articles comes from ). I believe that, if a person that really needs it, he / she will stumble upon that post and find useful information - heck, some time ago I even got points for something I did 2 years before! :eek: Everything you put on & believe is helpful, usually is.

About threads going off topic :
Usually I have seen this happen with threads comparing .NET to VB 6 etc. They always go off on the same old topic, and everyone ( including me :D ) is always trying to force their opinions on everyone - nothing will ever convince old timers to convert to .NET for example ( no offense intended ).

Another example would be if an OP asks a question, someone replies with a correct method; another member replies with a different correct method, and yet another member comes and answers with yet another correct method; now there is not really a wrong answer here, but 3 different ways of achieving the OP's goal. Usually the OP's are very appreciative about all he / she has learnt with one simple question, but now, say for example, only reply 2 was "100% correct", and he / she starts to argue his / her views with Answerer 1 and Answerer 3 - why , what for - is that really necessary &#191; - I'd say, no, because that will just cause new confusion and new doubts from the OP. Where the OP was on cloud 9, he / she is now all of a sudden 10 feet below ground ( and now has to start the process all over ). Do not "teach" a newbie the most complicated way of doing things, just because you can - he / she will get there eventually, we all did, didn't we &#191; :)

Disclamer: I do not have the answers, only some personal views on the matter.

I was already using this site for years and years before I actually posted for the first time. Most of the answers were just a search away, which is much faster than posting a question and waiting for an answer. It will not surprise me if there are a lot of people who regularly use this site to find information and yet haven't seen the need to post a single question.
Now, when you do a search for a particular something then you may find (say) three threads that are actually an answer to your question. Even if these three threads only contain one answer each, you still have three (possibly very different) answers. My point is that if the goal is to get one single proper answer per question for archiving reasons then it will still fail on the search.

The main reason I used this site was the good hit rate - lots of useful information and hardly any of those pesky "yeah me too" kind of posts. (You know, 6 posts in a thread - one question and five "I'm looking for this as well" posts). From that perspective I do think that preserving the quality of the information provided is important in the long run - not just for the OP.

Personally I always liked finding multiple answers to a question. That is how most things in technology work - the more complex the question, the more possible answers there usually are. This sometimes shows me a solution I did not think of myself but also helps with questioning the answers given. More than a few times the ongoing discussion about the differences between two answers by the respective posters has been very interesting to follow.

Of course (as said by others) this is dependant on the situation of the OP - (at least some of) the urgent homework crowd would like a quick simple answer so they do not need to think for themselves. Some of the novice OPs are eager to learn but get may get too confused when multiple answers are given, and even more so if a discussion flares up that discusses the merits between several solutions of which the OP has not enough experience to grasp the meaning of the discussion. Still I believe that providing more information is always better then providing less information.

The best solution on wrong information is to not post it at all. But we are all just human and make mistakes. Personally I put a small warning note on one of my posts if it turns out that I completely missed the mark with my "solution". Otherwise I just leave it there "as is" as the next posts in the thread usually put it right. You never know - the OP may see the erroneous post and the posts that explain why it is wrong and learn from it. What I do dislike though is people who do not accept that they have made a mistake and defend their erroneous post tooth and nail. But I guess it is human nature - I used to have a colleague like that and it is exactly the reason why I wrote "used to". Unfortunately I do not see a way to resolve this particular situation with this kind of person. These discussions tend not to end with the error being admitted and thus can go on ad infinitum...

Regarding EDITING of ones existing posts, and the correcting of information.

My opinion is that unless the edit is "immediate", it is much better to:

* Make a new reply with the correct information
* Note the # of the new reply
* Edit the older reply with a simple "This contains an Error See ###"

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Originally Posted by Arjay

I don't see how this applies to this forum. I see those who answer questions here as someone merely offering suggestions rather than being in a mentoring role.

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Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster

Mentor -a trusted counselor or guide.
Counselor - a person who gives advice

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OK, so we have the following:

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1) Trusted
2) Person
3) Gives
4) Advice
5) Guide

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While some may question #2 for some members :eek:; I think the only item from that list that is quantifiable is #1 (Trusted).

While everyone here is volunteering their time, I believe that being able to Trust the information still applies here on the forum.

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

* Make a new reply with the correct information
* Note the # of the new reply
* Edit the older reply with a simple "This contains an Error See ###"

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In my opinion... if the post needs changed, and making a change does not impact any of the following posts, then changing the post is the best action as long as a note is added indicating it was changed.

If changing the post does impact a later post, then I believe it is dependent upon the specifics of the post and thread.

But I digress from the main topic....

Someone asked the question, but didn't want to post it, so I will:

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Why is there a need by some members to prove everyone else wrong?

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I believe this is an intersting question. If you are posting with the intent of proving others wrong, then you are posting for a bad reason :). If you want to simply prove others wrong, start a new thread.

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Originally Posted by Brad Jones

Someone asked the question, but didn't want to post it, so I will:

Quote:

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Why is there a need by some members to prove everyone else wrong?

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I believe this is an intersting question. If you are posting with the intent of proving others wrong, then you are posting for a bad reason :). If you want to simply prove others wrong, start a new thread.

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In my 10 years here, I have very very rarely seen a member who has wanted to prove "everyone" wrong. The few cases were where someone had a "special" view that was contrary to nearly all accepted views, and was attempting to justify their own.

On the other hand, I have seen (and been one) members who question a specific members knowledge. This is especially true when in one thread they are asking very basic questions, and then posting "advice" to other members which is also flawed.

While there are many many cases where one novice can help another novice, it yould definately be questionable for a freshman who has not yet passed "100" level courses to give advice to a post graduate student on advanced material in that field.

The internet is a great equalizer, but to a large degree this masks the degree of knowledge that a person has to back up their position.

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Starting a new thread is an option. But is it effective? Knowing that people will tend to read sequentially (rather than following links), how does one effectively tie the information together?

If someone starts on the original thread, they may not follow a link in a given reply directing them to the new thread, when they might read additional replies that follow...

If someone starts on the new thread, they can not easily see the information (on the original thread) that prompted the new thread...

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Finally (and just speaking for myself), there is little to "prove". As Hannes previously posted, it is often futile to attempt to change a persons belief.

But what about the "great masses" who are searching? Look at some of the "Viewed" counts on some threads, they can easily be in the 100's. Isn't providing information for these readers "The Greater Good"?

If there was one "change" I would like to see on CG [and I know this has been discussed in the past] it would be a change in the default setting for private messages.

Many times posters have these disabled (by default - because few actually read the FAQs and set up their profile), and the ONLY way to transmit information is via the forums thread.

While this may cause some people to "accumulate" unread messages, that could be addressed in a number of ways....

Cpu, isn't the subject of private messages going off-topic?

With regard to the mentoring, consider this scenario.

Imagine if you are a senior engineer at a company and a new guy is hired in a different group but is seated close to you.

After a few days on the job, the guys asks you a question. The answer is easy, so you tell him, but in doing so you notice several other areas they potentially may be an issue.

The other areas are more advanced topics and would require several hours of explanation.

Do you...

Casually mention the potential issues?

Spend the next 3 hours going into detail?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arjay

Do you...
Casually mention the potential issues?
Spend the next 3 hours going into detail?

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Most likely the former by default with an offer of the latter...

But the scenario I have been talking about is different.

Consider if (after you had given the "simple" answere), some other junior or mid-level engineer jumps into the conversation with information that is either inappropriate for the question that was asked, or in some way will have a negative impact on the way the original information may be applied in the future????

* Say "The Heck with it"
* Inform BOTH the original novice and the person who jumped in of the ramifications of the information

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re: PM's..

I think it IS on-topic. If we want to keep threads more tightly focused (some people have PM'ed me in favor of on-thread debate!!!) and still address the issue, then Privately is a viable option...IF the person can be reach via that means...With the default setting, most of the "offenders" have PM's still turned off because they did not take the time to read the FAQ's and set up their "CP"....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheCPUWizard

* Say "The Heck with it"
* Inform BOTH the original novice and the person who jumped in of the ramifications of the information

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If the second novice employee works for someone else, then it might be out of line to correct them.

In my opinion, the person receiving the information is going to have to make a bit of a judgment call on whose information that want to accept and use. They are to take it as advice and not necessarily as absolute truths.

One of the points your argument leaves out is... what if the senior person is wrong and the other novice person actually -is- correct? All of the sudden, where the Sr. person thought they were doing a good deed results in obfuscating the entire issue and making a situation even worse.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brad Jones

If the second novice employee works for someone else, then it might be out of line to correct them.

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That is true, but "in the real world" I would then go to their boss, or a peer person in that chain of command or a common supervisor. I believe that when a company hires someone they deserve the best, and this includes pointing out even "potential" bad information (see important info at end of post!!)

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In my opinion, the person receiving the information is going to have to make a bit of a judgment call on whose information that want to accept and use. They are to take it as advice and not necessarily as absolute truths.

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This gets back to the matter of "trust". Obviously no one can control what information a person accepts or rejects.

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One of the points your argument leaves out is... what if the senior person is wrong and the other novice person actually -is- correct? All of the sudden, where the Sr. person thought they were doing a good deed results in obfuscating the entire issue and making a situation even worse.....

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I am very open with clients and teams that I work with. I tell them up front that I have probably made more mistakes than any (small) group of them. These days, most of them are caught before someone else is even aware of the mistake. The ones that do "leak" into the wild, are typically incredibly stupid, embarassing or both. [Imagine standing on the desk of a naval vessel having just watched the crew in near-panic after the main gun just rotated violently and slammed into the desk (Dutch M-Frigate 1992) and going "Oops....me bad"]