C++ Or Java?

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February 17th, 2009, 11:27 AM
Tenenbaum

C++ Or Java?

My friend just recently gave me some video lectures on Java, that seem great.
I have some books on C++, but I was trying to figure out if I should learn Java before C++, taking I have these video lectures?

What do you guys think?

Edit: Would you suggest I learn something else before these two?
I plan on learning C++ Ultimately, but its hard for me to understand, so my friend suggested I learn Java first, to get used to programming, so he gave me these video lectures.

Any input is appreciated, thanks.
February 17th, 2009, 11:54 AM
DerShodan

Re: C++ Or Java?

2 Points:

1. Learning Java for sure is easier than learning C++, because C++ lets you do a lot of ugly things, that would be impossible in Java for safety reasons.
The point is though, that once you are able to program in Java, this does not imply that you can program in C++.
The other way round though, so learning Java while you are good at C++ already, will for sure not be difficult since you already know more about programming, than "Necessary" for Java :)

Simply said: Java is learned faster but if ouy plan to learn both maybe better start with C++.

2. If you plan to learn just one Programming Language for a strat... then it very much depends on what you plan to do with it. Will you need Speed or Flexibility?
February 17th, 2009, 12:07 PM
Tenenbaum

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerShodan

2 Points:

1. Learning Java for sure is easier than learning C++, because C++ lets you do a lot of ugly things, that would be impossible in Java for safety reasons.
The point is though, that once you are able to program in Java, this does not imply that you can program in C++.
The other way round though, so learning Java while you are good at C++ already, will for sure not be difficult since you already know more about programming, than "Necessary" for Java :)

Simply said: Java is learned faster but if ouy plan to learn both maybe better start with C++.

2. If you plan to learn just one Programming Language for a strat... then it very much depends on what you plan to do with it. Will you need Speed or Flexibility?

Honestly, I'm not totally sure what I want to do with programming, though I do enjoy it, (So far).
I love computers and hardware, and honestly love sitting here on the computer all day.

Though, I'd like to learn everything I can get my hands on, in whichever order is best, and easiest.
Ultimately programming games or software is a goal, but possibly other things to, so, it could be anything.
Just trying to get my foot in the door really. (C++ is difficult for me to understand, thats why I am here)

Thanks.
February 17th, 2009, 06:37 PM
_uj

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenenbaum

Just trying to get my foot in the door really.

Note that the language you're using to write a program is just part of the programming process. Programming is so much more so my best advice is that you aim for a university degree in Computer Science and Engineering or something related. In this way you get a good grounding in math and science in general and how to develop programs in different languages in particular.

So if you feel like the proverbial donkey choosing between C++ and Java, break free and pick a M.Sc degree. :)
February 17th, 2009, 07:39 PM
Tenenbaum

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by _uj

Note that the language you're using to write a program is just part of the programming process. Programming is so much more so my best advice is that you aim for a university degree in Computer Science and Engineering or something related. In this way you get a good grounding in math and science in general and how to develop programs in different languages in particular.

So if you feel like the proverbial donkey choosing between C++ and Java, break free and pick a M.Sc degree. :)

Don't have the money for a university, or any type of college at the moment.
February 17th, 2009, 08:46 PM
_uj

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenenbaum

Don't have the money for a university, or any type of college at the moment.

So how old are you and what's your background?

I mean you need to offer up some personal data to get proper advice.
February 17th, 2009, 09:19 PM
Tenenbaum

Re: C++ Or Java?

18 in 3 days, Unemployed, Looking for a job, trying to learn coding.

I've decided I'll most likely go back to the beginning and learn Scheme and watch these SICP lectures.
Someone else suggested that, and it seems best, because I have no programming experience, and I'm like a lost puppy, I really don't know where to start.
February 20th, 2009, 02:16 PM
Kryles

Re: C++ Or Java?

I don't see how personal info will help make a decision. I'd say get both programs and write a small program.

Hello World type programs. Then see which you liked more and just continue with that one.

I did that years ago and ended up liking c++

:)
February 20th, 2009, 02:39 PM
potatoCode

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryles

I don't see how personal info will help make a decision. I'd say get both programs and write a small program.

Hello World type programs. Then see which you liked more and just continue with that one.

I did that years ago and ended up liking c++

:)

I think that's a sound advnice

@Tenenbaum:
Hi, aren't you the one who worried so much about whether to get a new c++ book or go with the one you already had? If so, what did you decide to do? hehe kind of curious :)
I'd say don't beat yourself over it, let it go and take it as it comes.
And don't think that you don't have the determination because you're swinging over left and right. It's natural.
February 21st, 2009, 01:35 PM
_uj

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenenbaum

18 in 3 days, Unemployed, Looking for a job, trying to learn coding.

I've decided I'll most likely go back to the beginning and learn Scheme and watch these SICP lectures.
Someone else suggested that, and it seems best, because I have no programming experience, and I'm like a lost puppy, I really don't know where to start.

In that case I suggest you pick Java. To get some structure in you learning effort I suggest you aim for the SCJP (Sun Certified Java Programmer) exam. In your situation it would give you an edge. Maybe you could take a course at some community college or study with a friend or something.

But note that nothing beats a formal education. You're much more likely to do well in work life with a college education. This is also true for careers in computing.
February 21st, 2009, 02:02 PM
laserlight

Re: C++ Or Java?

I suspect that learning Scheme with SICP would be better grounding in programming than learning Java with the aim to get SCJP. On the other hand, I am also of the opinion that in the long run it does not matter either way, since you should be getting exposure to a wide variety of programming paradigms anyway, so the practical aspect of getting SCJP certification with job prospects probably trumps any kind of "better grounding" argument.
February 22nd, 2009, 02:03 AM
_uj

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserlight

I suspect that learning Scheme with SICP would be better grounding in programming than learning Java with the aim to get SCJP. On the other hand, I am also of the opinion that in the long run it does not matter either way, since you should be getting exposure to a wide variety of programming paradigms anyway, so the practical aspect of getting SCJP certification with job prospects probably trumps any kind of "better grounding" argument.

That's why I suggested Java with SCJP. If you learn Java to the level of the SCJP you have a good enougth grounding in computing and an "exam" with some credit to show an employer.

Reading SICP and learning Scheme is a sidetrack for someone in the OP's position. It's perfectly fine as an introductory course in a 5 year Computer Science program, but for self-study with the aim of landing a programming job with reasonably high probability in the near future, it's utterly useless.

If the OP prefers C++ I suggest he works through Programming, Principles and Practices using C++ by Bjarne Strustrup from cover to cover. But he should know that the Java/SCJP combination is worth 10 times, maybe even 100 times, as much in the job market.

An alternative to the Java/SCJP combination would be C# with some relevant Microsoft certification. In my view, the only way forward for the OP, is to pick either Java or C# and go for a Sun or Microsoft certification.
February 22nd, 2009, 09:48 AM
Speedo

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

In my view, the only way forward for the OP, is to pick either Java or C# and go for a Sun or Microsoft certification.

You're riding the assumption that the OP wants to pursue a career in CS immediately. That may not necessarily be the case. The only concrete statement I can see that he's made about his goals or desires is that he's kinda interested in creating games, and for that he will almost definitely want to know C++.
February 24th, 2009, 05:35 AM
potatoCode

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by _uj

That's why I suggested Java with SCJP. If you learn Java to the level of the SCJP you have a good enougth grounding in computing and an "exam" with some credit to show an employer.

Reading SICP and learning Scheme is a sidetrack for someone in the OP's position. It's perfectly fine as an introductory course in a 5 year Computer Science program, but for self-study with the aim of landing a programming job with reasonably high probability in the near future, it's utterly useless.

If the OP prefers C++ I suggest he works through Programming, Principles and Practices using C++ by Bjarne Strustrup from cover to cover. But he should know that the Java/SCJP combination is worth 10 times, maybe even 100 times, as much in the job market.

An alternative to the Java/SCJP combination would be C# with some relevant Microsoft certification. In my view, the only way forward for the OP, is to pick either Java or C# and go for a Sun or Microsoft certification.

Hello _uj, how are you?

Hm, does that mean job market is way bigger for Java/SCJP than with C++?
That worries me...

And um, how hard is it to get SCJP?

Thanks!
February 24th, 2009, 05:42 AM
JohnW@Wessex

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by potatoCode

Hm, does that mean job market is way bigger for Java/SCJP than with C++?

It all depends on which area of programming interests you the most. Some areas are almost all Java/C#, in other areas they don't get much of a look in.
February 24th, 2009, 06:12 AM
potatoCode

Re: C++ Or Java?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW@Wessex

It all depends on which area of programming interests you the most. Some areas are almost all Java/C#, in other areas they don't get much of a look in.

Hi JohnW! how are you?

I'm interested in A.I. (hehe something that will take a lifetime!)
and gaming, particularly online gaming (MMORPG's especially).
but, for now, I just wish I could get any kind of job as a programmer...

Can someone hook me up? :blush: