Java to C++

Dear All,
I m new to C++ and am transitioning from Java. I m comfortable with the principles of OOP, which I learnt along with Java.

Can someone point to a quick reference guide, online or a book? I dont want to start with a beginner's book; also, last few days' experience taught me that I can get lost in much of the complexities of VC++ if I dont pick up the right resource.

If I may ask some relevant questions:
1. How are arrays of objects dealt with in C++? I ran into this problem in my project where I had to use an array of object rather than a single object. The single object was declared in Header file. Can arrays be declared in header files too? Can they be instantiated as well?

2. Much of my confusion exists because I tend to think of the header files as C++ equivalent of interface files in java. In java interfaces, I we used to declare constants, abstract classes etc. We do similar stuff in C++ header files as well. Where do we draw the line?

Thanks in advance!
SG

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Originally Posted by sgiri1981

Dear All,
I m new to C++ and am transitioning from Java. I m comfortable with the principles of OOP, which I learnt along with Java.

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You should make sure you learn generic programming for C++. While C++ also supports OOP, generic approaches are generally more widely useful since the language doesn't use a "God object" design which everything inherits from.

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If I may ask some relevant questions:
1. How are arrays of objects dealt with in C++? I ran into this problem in my project where I had to use an array of object rather than a single object. The single object was declared in Header file. Can arrays be declared in header files too? Can they be instantiated as well?

---

An array is not an object like it is in Java. It's simply a block of memory somewhere that has objects in it. If you want to treat an array as if it's an object, use std::vector.

Generally speaking you can declare anything you want in a header file (using the extern keyword in the case of variables), but you have to define everything in one (and only one) source file.

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2. Much of my confusion exists because I tend to think of the header files as C++ equivalent of interface files in java. In java interfaces, I we used to declare constants, abstract classes etc. We do similar stuff in C++ header files as well. Where do we draw the line?

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There are some similarities. The first thing to realize is that #include statements are like pasting the entire contents of the reference file in place. So anything you put in a header file will appear in every source file that includes it. This can cause linker errors if you define something in a header file rather than just declaring it. (There are exceptions: inline functions, constants, etc.)

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Originally Posted by sgiri1981

Dear All,
I m new to C++ and am transitioning from Java. I m comfortable with the principles of OOP, which I learnt along with Java.

Can someone point to a quick reference guide, online or a book? I dont want to start with a beginner's book;

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Hello sgiri1981
I think you should reconsider about that and learn C++ as if you knew nothing about it.

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Originally Posted by sgiri1981

Can someone point to a quick reference guide, online or a book? I dont want to start with a beginner's book;

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Considering that you have a programming background, I recommend Accelerated C++: Practical Programming by Example by Koenig and Moo.

I second laserlight's book recommendation (beat me to it).

potatoCode has a point, but I'd also add that a great many have come to C++ from that perspective, and Java/Python/C# are often intentionally taught first because the OOP/OOD concepts are similar in the basics.

Yet, I must agree with potatoCode's basic point with this observation. Many Java programmers start learning C++, then after some time begin to complain about the language with constant comparisons of how much easier/productive/better things were in Java (C#, whatever the source).

C++ has a different use in the industry compared to Java, despite the apparent overlap. You may have been attracted to C++ knowing this already. It's important to keep in mind that it aims to control the underlying machine from a different perspective. Java and similar languages give leverage to developers by removing many of the underlying machine mechanics, like pointers, memory allocation - and that's one of the sources of C++ performance. You are writing in a language that's much 'closer' to the hardware, and so the language features must contend with that in ways Java doesn't have to consider (it does that stuff under the hood).

Despite the fact I tend to ramble on, there's not enough space to really answer your inquiry thoroughly - the answer touches on a number of points. I could simply tell you to use the STL Vector - and that's good advice, but it will leave you to discover how and when to use arrays effectively. It will take time, but frankly, it's worth it if you're going to make applications or other targets for which C++ is better suited.

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Originally Posted by JVene

Yet, I must agree with potatoCode's basic point with this observation. Many Java programmers start learning C++, then after some time begin to complain about the language

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Many Java programmers don't even attempt to take the time to learn C++ properly before using it. Instead, they immediately attempt to write intermediate/advanced C++ programs, since the syntax is similar to Java.

What ends up happening is that the C++ programs written by such programmmers are either wrong, buggy (i.e. full of memory leaks), or maybe work, but the code looks absolutely ridiculous (to a C++ programmer). For example, unnecessary calls to "new", attempting to write their own "Integer", "Double", and "Char" objects, etc. Check the many threads here where Java programmers have turned relatively simple C++ programs into convoluted messes due to trying to leverage what they learned in Java.

Regards,

Paul McKenzie

In addition to that, follow the languages philosophy is often good approach.

I'd recommend http://www.cppreference.com/wiki/ as an easy to read resource for STL containers and algorithms.

For more advanced information, go to http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/

Thank you all for your comments.

To summarize, yes, I m initially complaining at the very low level of C++ compared to Java, especially so when we have to deal with arrays, constructors, destructors et al. In addition, I m also working on a really complex project (dont have to code from start), so I have to literally Google for help quite often. That wasnt very productive. Example: I saw a strange code in the constructor and had no clue what it was. Unless I knew the right term for it ("constructor initializer list") I could not search for help and understand it.

To add to my woes, there are are #'s and ifdefs/ifndefs etc.

Its not just C++ learning curve, its also the makefiles and MSDEV environment that slows me down (i used Eclipse and Ant for Java)

Thus, I learnt it the hard way that I must first systematically learn the key conceptual difference, esp. the terminologies associated with C++ before I can turn to google. Hence the need for a good book.

Anyway, I foresee an uphill task, but am confident of negotiating it with enriching discussions on this forum. Thanks again for your continued patience and help.

SG
PS: I hope that my list of woes was reminiscent of your initial days of C++ programming. :-)

It can be particularly difficult if you have to deal with code that's a mix of C and C++ styles. C is *really* low-level, while C++ doesn't have to be if you don't want to write it that way.

While constructors/destructors usually correspond to memory management for an object, in some cases they can be used similarly to the Java try/finally construct: You ensure something happens before the scope exits, exception or no, by placing it in a destructor and constructing an object of that type on the stack.

Here's a couple quick examples to illustrate some differences between C++ and Java that might help you with your initial questions. I'll use Java classes, and C++ structs for the examples, for clarity. I'll assume ints, pointers, and object references are 4-bytes in all cases. (My apologies if my Java syntax isn't perfect...I'm rusty)

Java:

Code:

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public class SomeClassA
{
        public int a,b,c;
};

public class SomeClassB
{
        public int d,e,f;
        public someClassA objectG;
};

...

public void someMethod()
{
        SomeClassA object1; //allocates 4 bytes on the stack

        SomeClassB object2, object3;
                //allocates 2*4 bytes == 8 bytes on the stack

        object1 = new SomeClassA(1,2,3);
                //allocates 12 bytes in the heap, assigns the
                //memory address to object1, if object1 goes
                //out of scope, the garbage collector takes care
                //of it later.
        object2 = new SomeClassB(7,8,9,object1);
                //allocates 16 bytes in the heap, assigns the
                //memory address to object2, if object1 goes
                //out of scope, the garbage collector takes care
                //of it later.
                //object2.objectG is assigned the same memory location
                //in the heap as object1

        object3 = new SomeClassB(4,5,6);
                //allocates 16 bytes in the heap, assigns the
                //memory address to object3, if object3 goes
                //out of scope, the garbage collector takes care
                //of it later.
                //object3.objectG might remain unassigned
                //or may be allocated (an addition 12 bytes on the heap)
                //depending on how you build your constructor


}

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Java notes:
1) If the objects go out of scope AND are not being used in any scope, the garbage collector reclaims the memory. This uses a fair amount of processing overhead, which may not be an issue if your program is not already processor-intensive.
2) You cannot change the memory addresses of the objects, except by direct assignment to a different object.

C++:

Code:

---

struct someStructA
{
        int a,b,c;
};

struct someStructB
{
        int d,e,f;
        struct someStructA structG;
};

struct someStructC
{
        int h,i,j;
        struct someStructA* structPointerK;
};

...

void someFunction()
{
        struct someStructA struct1;
                //allocates 12 bytes on the stack, contents are junk
                //values until assigned separately.

        struct someStructB struct2;
                //allocates 24 bytes on the stack - a someStructB
                //holds the entire structure of a someStructA in the
                //same memory block.

        struct someStructC struct3;
                //allocates 16 bytes on the stack - the 3 ints plus
                //a 4 byte pointer to a memory location that has not
                //been allocated yet.

        struct someStructA* structPointer4;
                //allocates 4 bytes on the stack, pointer is unassigned
                //and holds a junk value

        structPointer4 = new structPointer();
                //allocates 12 bytes on the heap, assigns that memory
                //address to structPointer4, data members a,b,c remain
                //uninitiallized to junk values

        struct someStructA structArray5[4];
                //allocates an array of 4 someStructA in one continuous
                //block on the stack for 4*12 bytes == 48 bytes.
                //To access an individual structure in an array use
                //structArray5[0], structArray5[2].b, structArray5[3].a...

        delete structPointer4;
                //have to manually delete this out of the heap before
                //it goes out of scope
}

---

C/C++ notes:
1) A pointer is simply a 4-byte variable (on a 32-bit system) that holds a memory address, you can change the addresses manually, but this is not generally advised.
2) You can allocate structs and classes directly on the stack! If they go out of scope, everything about it disappears, no garbage collector neccessary (no overhead).
3) You can manually allocate structs and classes in the heap. CAREFUL! There is no garbage collector! If you allocate something on the heap using new you must manually de-allocate it using delete before the pointer goes out of scope and is lost, leaving the item clogging up memory on the heap (this is called a memory leak).
4) C/C++ lets you make an array of any primitive (int, etc.), struct, or class. Unlike a Java ArrayList container object, C/C++ does not keep track of the length of the array. For example you can try to access structArray5[17] with no complaints from the compiler, even though your last element was #3. (A Standard Temple Library std::vector object is very similar to ArrayList).
5) structArray5 without any brackets is treated as a pointer. Don't do this unless you really intend it.


I could keep going with examples, but I this is all the time I have for now.

You need to grasp the basic of C++ before try to code it.

For instance,

Code:

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class widget;

widget a();

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The object declaration statement does not declare a widget object.

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Originally Posted by sgiri1981

, I m initially complaining at the very low level of C++ compared to Java, especially so when we have to deal with arrays, constructors, destructors et al.

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As Lindley says, it doesn't have to be low level if you don't want it to be. That's the great attraction of C++; it can be either/both. Learn and take full advantage of the STL containers and algorithms; they will make a lot of the 'C' like low level stuff unnecessary.
As you appear to be coding for a pre-existing project, you may find that there are areas that are not very 'C++' like, where previous coders have not used the full capabilities of C++.

I'm surprised that you have to deal with make files. I use the MSDEV environment (Visual Studio 2008) and I've never had to do anything remotely like editing a makefile. I add files to the project tree and hit the 'Build' button!

What you must pick up in C++ that is not there in Java is having to manage resources by use of automated destructors.

C++ does not have memory garbage collection the way Java has it but does have the automatic destructor and advanced C++ programmers use these to do their garbage collection for them.

You will not have to do all this management yourself because you should use both standard and open-source libraries available to you that already provide a lot of the support for this, for example you will almost certainly want to use shared_ptr at some point, either in the boost or tr1 namespace (namespace is similar to package in Java).

In Java anything other than a primitive type must be created with new at all times. In C++ there are 3 ways a variable gets initialised:

1. auto variables, which are kept on the stack and are destroyed at the end of the block
2. heap-based variables allocated with new and require an explicit delete
3. class members (not pointers) which are destroyed just after the class that holds them.

Ignoring the complex "placement new" for now, the destructor of these objects gets called at the same the objects are destroyed.

You also need to beware that objects can be copied and what implications that has, particularly if they share pointers.

There is one other concept in C++ different from Java and that is const. You should learn to use that too.

Another thing Java doesn't have is signed vs unsigned integers. There are a few gotchas there to watch out for, like the fact that -1 >= any unsigned value...

So to sum it all up:

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Originally Posted by potatoCode

learn C++ as if you knew nothing about it.

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Where "it" means Java.

Regards,

Paul McKenzie

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Originally Posted by sgiri1981

Dear All,
I m new to C++ and am transitioning from Java. I m comfortable with the principles of OOP, which I learnt along with Java.

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You're at square one. Java means nothing in the C++ world. Java and C++ are VERY different languages.

Start learning C++ from the beginning. I recommend the new book by Stroustrup (the founder of C++). It's called Programming, Principles and Practices Using C++.

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Originally Posted by nuzzle

You're at square one. Java means nothing in the C++ world. Java and C++ are VERY different languages.

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Exactly. Even though many of the posts here are helpful in stating the differences in the two languages, I would believe that trying to figure out the differences would be very confusing to a Java programmer learning C++.

So the safest thing to do is to hide all of the Java books, pretend Java doesn't exist, and learn C++ from scratch.

Quote:

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Start learning C++ from the beginning. I recommend the new book by Stroustrup (the founder of C++). It's called Programming, Principles and Practices Using C++.

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Another book is "Accelerated C++" by Koenig & Moo.

Regards,

Paul McKenzie

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Originally Posted by Paul McKenzie

Even though many of the posts here are helpful in stating the differences in the two languages,

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They're not helpfull. They suggest there are minor differences between C++ and Java/C#. There isn't. The differences are major.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nuzzle

They're not helpfull.

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Well, those are the differences, whether they are helpful or not is a matter of opinion.

I don't disagree with you that any Java or C# programmer going to C++ should just forget about those languages when learning C++. That's been proven by the many threads started on CodeGuru by Java programmers who have totally butchered C++ programs with Java-ized code.

Regards,

Paul McKenzie

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Originally Posted by Paul McKenzie

Well, those are the differences, whether they are helpful or not is a matter of opinion.

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Well, point at a helpful difference that has been pointed out in this thread?

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Originally Posted by nuzzle

Well, point at a helpful difference that has been pointed out in this thread?

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Aye, I went straight to suggesting Accelerated C++ because I felt that it was futile to try and answer the more technical questions. It would be better for sgiri1981 to just learn C++ and then compare for himself/herself in retrospect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nuzzle

Well, point at a helpful difference

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"Helpful" is subjective. Maybe the OP has now seen so many differences, they've been convinced into *not* assuming that Java and C++ are similar (hopefully the OP sees that it's a loser trying to leverage what they've learned in Java in learning C++).

I've responded many times on threads over the years like these concerning Java programmers learning C++. I've gotten into many disagreements from Java programmers saying what they're doing is OK. Again, you have no argument with me when it comes to Java programmers learning C++.

Regards,

Paul McKenzie

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Originally Posted by Paul McKenzie

"Helpful" is subjective.

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It's like with my kangoroos. They aren't very helpful.

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Originally Posted by nuzzle

It's like with my kangoroos. They aren't very helpful.

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At least they´re tasty :p

You can switch from any languages to any languages provided you understand the concept.

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Originally Posted by Paul McKenzie

I don't disagree with you that any Java or C# programmer going to C++ should just forget about those languages when learning C++.

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Do long term C++ coders have the same sort of problems when trying to learn Java/C#. I imagine that forgetting (almost) all things are references would likely trip up the unwary.
i.e.
This snippet will do different things in C++ and Java/C#

Code:

---

a.value = 0;
b = a;
b.value = 1; // Has 'a' changed? Depends on the language.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnW@Wessex

Do long term C++ coders have the same sort of problems when trying to learn Java/C#. I imagine that forgetting (almost) all things are references would likely trip up the unwary.

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The problem that I see with C++ programmers going to Java are these:

1) Not getting used to what "=" does in Java (which is your snippet)

2) Not using the ready-made libraries by Sun and other companies, and instead code their own routines. Most of the time, the reason for this is that the C++ programmer is not aware of these libraries (or particular library) that exists to do the job (not really because the C++ programmer believes they're superior programmers and who must "code it themselves").

3) Getting used to the difference between a byte and a character.

4) Not only the language is different, but the programming paradigm is different (for example, a typical Java app throws exceptions if you make the slightest wrong move, while C++ only throws exceptions when there are those rare exceptional conditions).

A C++ programmer can readily maintain an existing Java application -- however (and IMO) it takes much more for a C++ programmer to actually design and start coding a non-trivial Java app from scratch. The same vice-versa, however an existing C++ application being maintained by a Java programmer scares me more than the other way around.

Regards,

Paul McKenzie

When I coded in Java I commonly made the mistake of forgetting to initialise members, eg collections, so I would for example have a vector as a class member and try using it forgetting that it was null by default.

It was also difficult to grasp in some ways the lack of ownership and the lack of const, so if I passed a vector from a class to a function in another class that function could do what it wanted with it, and also if it stored a copy, neither class actually "owned" it.

A noticeable issue was that a Java project with a bad class path would run continuously, just throwing ClassNotFound exceptions and logging them whereas a similarly bad C++ program (i.e. bad LD_LIBRARY_PATH or whatever) would probably have terminated, probably immediately on start-up, which would mean it would be easier to fix. Particularly given that you might have the class path correct in dev and wrong in production (they never quite match up exactly). Of course this may have been a less-than-perfect setup. Probably a good setup would ensure all the required .jar files are there as soon as your Java server starts up and terminate instantly if they are not, allowing you to fix the issue.

Hi All,
Good to see so many fruitful posts while I was away, tied up in yet another language: SAS.

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Originally Posted by Paul McKenzie

....
....

The same vice-versa, however an existing C++ application being maintained by a Java programmer scares me more than the other way around.

Regards,

Paul McKenzie

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I m precisely in this situation!!

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Originally Posted by sgiri1981

Hi All,
Good to see so many fruitful posts while I was away, tied up in yet another language: SAS.



I m precisely in this situation!!

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I've seen similar posts like this where people who are new, or have no
prior knowledge of c++ get the c++ related job,
when there are other readily available experienced c++ developers...
it makes me sick to the stomach

Quote:

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I hope that my list of woes was reminiscent of your initial days of C++ programming. :-)

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Indeed it does and highlights the point of disagreement between posts here that suggest similarities and differences between Java and C++.

I learned C++ in the last 80's, when it was brand new - and, of course, had to repeat that study like everyone else as new versions of C++ were released. It may be hard to visualize how different C++ 2.0 was from the first versions/attempts at the language (as in, there were no templates, no STL).

It is quite true that all of us had to "unlearn" what we new about C (I always hear 'unlearn' in Yoda's voice - I'm a product of the 70's).

I think the relationship C++ developers have to C is similar to your situation in many ways, and it echoes the complaint about how unhelpful it was for me to post comparisons between the languages.

I think it's a matter of degrees.

Certainly the underlying syntax of the statements are similar, though not quite as much between C and C++. Having understood loops, simple math statements, functions - these are all applicable concepts in any language transition. I can't see how it's successful to argue that the knowledge of the similarity of those base concepts common to all languages that share C's syntax (perhaps not quite reaching as far as Pascal, for example) is not helpful to a student. This was the basis of the reasoning for basing C++ on C.

Yet I must agree, as I eventually had to in the late 80's, that dropping all the bad habits from C, or in this case the inapplicable knowledge between languages, was an absolute requirement in order to avoid blocking myself from understanding the "new" language.

A similar thing happens to us as C++ evolves. We still have frameworks that depend on a common base "TObject" or some such thing - a concept from C++ that ought to be forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Paul McKenzie

The same vice-versa, however an existing C++ application being maintained by a Java programmer scares me more than the other way around.

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Originally Posted by sgiri1981

I m precisely in this situation!!

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I've worked in "corporate America" (years ago, 'head' dude in most cases) and I've worked in production "houses" (shrink wrap software makers). I've hired and fired my own share. Everyone has to 'catch up' somehow, and I think it important to put people where they're most productive and can develop skills most useful to the company and themselves (a kind of "what I'd want for myself" from both perspectives - employer and employee).

I have to agree loudly with Paul here - someone learning Java, now working on C++ code is scary, unless there's a good "shield" around that arrangement with an expectation of growth. I'm probably hoping for too much from management to be that generous, though.

Good information! That is what the forum is about! This is Magical David's family members' forums!

I'd like to use free tools to convert Java applications to exe for windows

Why on Earth would you want to do that? Assuming it's even possible, which I rather doubt.