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Why not code in Visual Basic or Delphi where at least you know that EVERYONE would be able to use your software without any frameworks.
Who has .NET framework nowadays? I would say less than half and of those who have it - most have the wrong version!
Whenever I download any of the software written in .Net, it's always buggy, slow and you can be sure that it will close with an unexpected error before you do something useful with it.
So why use it??
Who has Java? And every Delphi program I've ever run has been buggy and slow and closed with unexpected errors.......
Seriously - if you really are interested, you might want to word your question somewhat more as an actual question and less as a flamebaiting thread.
.NET is popular because it provides a strong high level framework with many language flavors to develop in making it easily accessible to Java programmers, C++, Delphi, Pascal - you name it. It makes it easy to shift between the language flavors without having to learn a new framework, instead of only a new syntax which can be handled with a simple reference book.
It provides one common framework for developing windows applications, web applications, windows services, web services and so on, thus providing one framework to solve multiple problems.
There are many reasons why .NET is popular. But it is just a tool and should be viewed as such.
And well - poor coders in any language/framework will provide poor code, accounting for your stupid "always slow and buggy" remarks which shows you're just flamebaiting.....
I can speak from experience on both sides of the coin as a new (less than 1 year in c++) programmer.
With .NET, I've been able to quite easily do stuff that I simply couldn't do properly in pure c++, like FTP. Yes, you CAN do FTP without .NET, but not as easily, believe me. Winsocks gave me PTSD.
However, like you've said, I've had deployment issues like people not having .NET installed. It definitely sucks for customers if they have to wait 30 minutes on a slow internet connection to get some little program working.
In the end, when you add Windows::Forms, you can do so much, so easily, that I've really fallen in love with .NET. Once you figure out how the classes work, you can put together a meaningful, useful program with a nice GUI and flawless event handling in about a day.
Maybe I'm just not as clever as you, but I can't get results like that without .NET.
Because it is based on good and progressive conception and is well-made. Because it allows you as a developer to focus on solved problem without dealing with specifics of hardware or OS.
Have you actually tried coding meaningful applications with both VB and C# (or even VB.NET)? There is a world of difference. It's not worth discussing this further if you're not familiar with both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Athlon1600
Good question. Windows XP, Windows Vista and Windows 7 come with the .NET Framework already installed. For those still on Windows 2000 (me included) can add it add it. It's the way of the future. Plus a lot of applications are now provided over the Web. Quite a few of those are now in ASP.NET. The user doesn't need .NET to use a web site written in .NET. If a person keeps up with the Windows update they will always have the latest version of .NET that the underly operating system can support. The downloads happen in the background and you generally don't notice it until it's finished or when you want to shut down the machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Athlon1600
Someone has already addressed the issue of buggy software...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Athlon1600
Why use it? Well you don't have to use it. I've done programming from languages like Assembler all the way to C# with a lot of C/C++. I prefer C# all the way.
The final point to add which cannot be ignored is this. Microsoft has invested a lot in the Framework and there is a large and ever growing user community. Loads of forums, Loads of books, loads of tutorials, loads of good documentation. On top of that there free entry level tools that enable the developers to program against the framework and do some useful things (e.g. Visual C# Express, Visual Web Developer Express).
On another note you may also want to consider the job markets. I'm sure there is a lot of deman for Java applications and java programmers but there again if you know the .NET framework the opportunities are many. A lot of companies want to make sure that their applications are built on the best possible platform and can be supported going forwards. That is simply not the case with VB and similar languages. Don't get me wrong. Delphi is a good thing. It started out really well but I think since Anders Hejlsberg left Borland for Microsoft that language has not made much progress. At the moment C# and .NET Framework is where the evolution is. In the future it might be different. Until then I'll stick with C# and .NET framework.
Who has .Net framework nowadays? Considering that .Net 3.5 SP1 is part of the Windows Update, all XP and above PCs *should* have it, depending on their Windows Update settings.
Also remember that Vista came pre-installed with 3.5, and Windows 7 is pre-installed with 3.5 SP1.
And I believe, the last time it was reported, about 95% of the world's computers ran a version of Windows.
And for those running linux there are Mono.
I'm relatively new to seriously studying visual basic 2008 and have quickly scanned a C# book called "Pro C# 2008 and the .Net 3.5 Platform". In the book from what I understand, Visual Basic 2008 is a .net language. But from some posts on this thread and other things I have read it implies that unless you are writing with C# you aren't coding .net. Is that true? If your app isn't written in C# is your app not necessarily a .net program? I'm not clear on this. Can someone enlighten me on this?
Have a look here :
http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368148
The language isn't really what determines whether you are using .Net. It's the framework. C#, VB.Net, and Visual C++ all use the .Net framework, therefore, are .Net languages(Visual C++ is not the same as normal C++).Quote:
Originally Posted by viperbyte
There are many that believe Microsoft is doing away with VB.Net. Many of their examples are only for C#. Also, with the announcement of Windows Phone 7 Series development, those apps can ONLY be written in C#. I think that's the biggest showing that Microsoft may be phasing out VB.Net.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft isn't planning to leave VB.NET any time soon, AFAIKQuote:
Originally Posted by eclipsed4utoo
Visual C++ is an ide for c, c++ and managed c++. c++ does not use the .net while managed c++ does.Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsed4utoo
Most of the programs I use are written in c or c++.
Firefox
Blender
Code::Blocks
VirtualBox
Linux
Left 4 Dead 2 - game
7-zip
Mircosoft Windows
and etc....
There have been programs I used that aren't written in c or c++, but they would be consider the few among the rest I have :). Perhaps JavaScript and Flash would be the top scripting languages I use indirectly everyday
Normally, Visual C++ means managed C++ that uses the .Net framework.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeman
It's not a part of Windows Phone 7 Series development(which Microsoft is putting a lot of weight behind), and they have been favoring C# for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by HanneSThEGreaT
Mobile development is the future, and as development from Microsoft goes, there is no VB.Net development for their mobile.
Also, VB.Net is not supported in XNA development for the 360(though it is available for PC).
The writing is on the wall. Of course Microsoft isn't going to say they are dropping it until they do. They don't want to alienate the current VB.Net developers.
Actions speak louder than words, and Microsoft's words are starting to show their favoritism toward C#.
I know Windows Phone 7 Series doesn't support VB ;)
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your statement that Mobile development is the future. yes, it will become bigger, but it will not take over - that will be impossible.
You are saying that all these latest products Microsoft plans to bring out is to phase out VB, haven't that always been the case then, all their other products were / and some are still developed with C++, etc. ¿ So, if VB hasn't been phased out at this stage yet, I don't see it any time soon - perhaps when I'm a grandfather...
Not really. What about Visual C++ 6? It did not use the .net framework and it used the next coming up standard of c++ then. Visual C++ usually means they are using the Microsoft ide for C++ or at least this is the "normal" translation since most people do not use managed c++ or aka c++.net.Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsed4utoo
I am not a .net user/programmer, so I always make a clear distinction when it comes to the standard c++ and managed c++ called c++.net.
This forum is also set up like this
Forum -> Visual C++ & C++ Programming -> Visual C++ Programming
Forum -> Visual C++ & C++ Programming -> Managed C++ and C++/CLI
No. Visual C++ refers to non-managed C++.Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsed4utoo
It's the evolution of Visual C++ starting with Visual C++ 2.0 - it has nothing to do with managed code.
My understanding was that Windows Vista and 7 where written in c# (google.com searching look to confirm this)Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeman
While some parts may be written with managed code, the vast majority of the Windows code base is written with C/C++.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle_f90
The Phone isn't out, and they didn't have time to create both languages, and still be able to push out the SDK by MIX 2010. The final version of the OS isn't even finished.
VB.Net and C# are similar enough that anyone that understands one will grasp the other. Plus, you can translate automatically.
if I had a dollar... Oh man.
Erm... Now what is this supposed to contribute to this thread ???? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by vandel212
Please stay on topic.